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  1. #1
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    rear derailleur adjustment

    I have an Ultegra 6800 drive train. The bike has 4700 miles on it. I started having issues shifting down (big to small) and couple of weeks ago. I'd shift and nothing would happen. Shift again, and I'd jump the two cogs. I brought the bike into the shop. They put on a new chain and straightened the hanger "just a little bit".

    The first ride everything was perfect. 1/2 through the 2nd ride, I started having issues going up the cassette (small to larg cog). I push the lever, get the click, let go, then I get lots of noise from the back. I then have to give the lever another 1/2 a push, then the chain moves up.

    If I keep pushing past the click everything works fine, but the point the chain actually moves is kind of like 'no mans land' on the lever.
    Everything is perfect going down the cassette.

    I am guessing I am going to be told to set up the RD from the beginning. There are a million how to set the RD on you tube. Any one particularly that I should work from?

    Thanks for the help.

  2. #2
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    Change the shift cable.

    Pay attention to the shifter body, there might be some frayed pieces of cable in there.
    use a torque wrench

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnardone View Post
    I have an Ultegra 6800 drive train. The bike has 4700 miles on it. I started having issues shifting down (big to small) and couple of weeks ago. I'd shift and nothing would happen. Shift again, and I'd jump the two cogs. I brought the bike into the shop. They put on a new chain and straightened the hanger "just a little bit".

    The first ride everything was perfect. 1/2 through the 2nd ride, I started having issues going up the cassette (small to larg cog). I push the lever, get the click, let go, then I get lots of noise from the back. I then have to give the lever another 1/2 a push, then the chain moves up.

    If I keep pushing past the click everything works fine, but the point the chain actually moves is kind of like 'no mans land' on the lever.
    Everything is perfect going down the cassette.

    I am guessing I am going to be told to set up the RD from the beginning. There are a million how to set the RD on you tube. Any one particularly that I should work from?

    Thanks for the help.
    I don't really understand the problem description. But either way at 4700 miles with Shimano you should change the cable. Check the cable guide and elsewhere for gunk while you're at it.

  4. #4
    tlg
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    As soon as I read Shimano and 4700mi I immediately thought shift cable as it's a commonly known issue. I'm surprised the shop didn't check that first.

    Do yourself a favor and always keep a shift cable on hand. Replace it by 4000mi. It's cheap insurance.
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  5. #5
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Definitely sounds like a frayed cable. If you (or the somewhat incompetent shop mechanic you went to previously) have trouble getting the cable out there is a screw on the bottom of the shifter body that holds on a 2 piece cover. Remove the cover and you should be able to remove the head and any frayed pieces of cable easily.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    Change the shift cable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    .....at 4700 miles with Shimano you should change the cable.
    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    As soon as I read Shimano and 4700mi I immediately thought shift cable as it's a commonly known issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Definitely sounds like a frayed cable.
    Change the shift cables. I'm surprised they went 4700 miles as the 6800 rear shifter tends to chew cables.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

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  7. #7
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    So I install the new cable. And the shifter was not moving anything. I pulled and tightened and was able to move up one cog and that was it. So I decided to pull the cable and start over. I can't get the cable out. I think I pulled too hard and now the cable is too deep. Not sure if you can tell from the picture if the cable end is too deep.
    Attachment 319309

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnardone View Post
    So I install the new cable. And the shifter was not moving anything. I pulled and tightened and was able to move up one cog and that was it. So I decided to pull the cable and start over. I can't get the cable out. I think I pulled too hard and now the cable is too deep. Not sure if you can tell from the picture if the cable end is too deep.
    Attachment 319309
    When you installed the new cable, did you also replace the housing too? The polymer cables fray & gunk up the housing, so both should be replaced at the same time.

    When you installed the new cable, did you make sure that the shifter had all tension on it released so that it would be in the highest gear before attaching it to the rear derailleur?

  9. #9
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnardone View Post
    So I install the new cable. And the shifter was not moving anything. I pulled and tightened and was able to move up one cog and that was it. So I decided to pull the cable and start over. I can't get the cable out. I think I pulled too hard and now the cable is too deep. Not sure if you can tell from the picture if the cable end is too deep.
    Attachment 319309
    Attachment fail. You need to learn how to link to your photos as well as how to adjust derailleurs/install cables.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnardone View Post
    So I install the new cable. And the shifter was not moving anything. I pulled and tightened and was able to move up one cog and that was it. So I decided to pull the cable and start over. I can't get the cable out. I think I pulled too hard and now the cable is too deep. Not sure if you can tell from the picture if the cable end is too deep.
    Attachment 319309
    That's impossible. The cable end blocks it from going past where it needs to be.

    Did you click the small lever until it stopped so the cable end is where it needs to be in order to be removed?

    If so the only things I can think of is you have a piece of the old cable stuck in there jamming things up or you somehow shoved the cable in going around where it should go. I'm not sure the latter is even possible.
    Can you see the cable end when you look in the hole where it went in?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnardone View Post
    Edit your post.

    Delete the picture and upload it again and save the edit.

    Should show up for everyone to see then.


    As for the shifter and cable, maybe it's best to bring it in to a bike shop to have them fix it really quick. Should not cost you too much money.
    use a torque wrench

  12. #12
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Did you click the small lever until it stopped so the cable end is where it needs to be in order to be removed?
    This. He probably didn't get the cable through the cable hook and now it's wedged inside where it shouldn't be.
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  13. #13
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    Before work this morning, I got the cable out. Made sure to click the inner lever all the way. Re-inserted the cable. tada. It started shifting in both directions. I need to fine tune the with the barrel adjusters as shifting is not dead silent. I do have one cog going from big to small that is sticking, but it looks like it is the same cog every time. It does not stick on the way up from small to big. Of course I didn't write down which cog it is. I'll get back to this tonight after work.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnardone View Post
    Before work this morning, I got the cable out. Made sure to click the inner lever all the way. Re-inserted the cable. tada. It started shifting in both directions. I need to fine tune the with the barrel adjusters as shifting is not dead silent. I do have one cog going from big to small that is sticking, but it looks like it is the same cog every time. It does not stick on the way up from small to big. Of course I didn't write down which cog it is. I'll get back to this tonight after work.
    If your shifting is having problems at one gear only something else is going on, more likely a kink or fray in the cable somewhere. Possibly a cog that is worn more than the rest...you'll know. You can ONLY adjust the shifting for ALL gears, it's not possible to adjust it for one and then differently for the rest. If it's seemingly good/quiet in the smaller cogs and gets progressively worse as you go to the largest cogs your hanger is bent.
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  15. #15
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    OK, so going up the cassette, 11 to 32, everything is smooth. Going back down the 32 to 28 is smooth. Then the next 3 cogs are all at best sticky, at worst don't move until a 2nd gear change, then it jumps 2 cogs. The last 7 cogs are all smooth going down to the 11.

    the image is upside down for some reason.

    rear derailleur adjustment-cassette.jpg

    So, order of operation I should get
    1) a whole new set of cables (and housing) as it is possible I have a kink after my first attempt at installing the cable.
    2) New Cassette, even if new cables fixes it, this cassette is going to need to be replaced sooner than later anyway. I'll need a chain whip and a cassette Lockring tool.
    Anything else I am missing?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnardone View Post
    OK, so going up the cassette, 11 to 32, everything is smooth. Going back down the 32 to 28 is smooth. Then the next 3 cogs are all at best sticky, at worst don't move until a 2nd gear change, then it jumps 2 cogs. The last 7 cogs are all smooth going down to the 11.

    the image is upside down for some reason.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	cassette.JPG 
Views:	32 
Size:	118.6 KB 
ID:	319347

    So, order of operation I should get
    1) a whole new set of cables (and housing) as it is possible I have a kink after my first attempt at installing the cable.
    2) New Cassette, even if new cables fixes it, this cassette is going to need to be replaced sooner than later anyway. I'll need a chain whip and a cassette Lockring tool.
    Anything else I am missing?
    If shifting is smooth going up, but sticky going down, it's cable friction. Replace the cables! It wouldn't hurt to replace the housings too as long as you have the cables out.

    This symptom doesn't sound like a worn cassette. Ghost shifting is often a sign of a worn cassette. It doesn't sound like this is your problem. Nor does this cassette look worn. Plenty of teeth are still nice and square. The more pointed ones are designed like that in order to make shifting to larger cogs smoother.

    Replace the cables.
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  17. #17
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    This sounds like a sticking cable. Did you replace the housing when you replaced the cable?

    Do you have an adequate loop between the derailleur and the the first cable stop? Are there any other 'tight' bends in the system?

    If you disconnect the cable from the pinch bolt and loosen it from the shifter, you should be able to slide it freely through the housing with your hand.

  18. #18
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    Another thing to point out is don't go cheap on cables. Get the good quality stainless steel cables. Cheaper galvanized cables become rough with age. Roughness = friction = poor shifting.

    Run your existing cable between your fingers. 1) Does it feel nice and slippery smooth? 2) Does it feel rough? 3) Does it leave a grey residue on your fingers? If you answered YES to 2 and 3, you have the cheap galvanized cables.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

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  19. #19
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    If your cables/housing are old enough that you're getting drag that bad you MUST replace both the cables and the housing. There is no way that a plastic lined housing will impart any wear on a steel cable, BUT a steel cable will definitely create wear inside plastic lined housing. ALL of the wear that affects shifting will occur inside the housing liner. If cables didn't fray inside shifters and also become a giant pain in the ass to reinstall in housing after they're cut you could reuse cables and just replace housing. If it's not clear yet, replacing the housing is the really important part of doing this. Putting a new cable through old housing won't get you any improvement.
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  20. #20
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    Thanks for all the help guys. At the LBS, they just sold me a new cable. sigh. I have to mention that is is a brand new owner, the Mechanic was out on lunch and he only pretty sure this is all I needed.

    and it was a cheap galvanized kind. So that is what I replaced. Just the cable.
    I do think there is adequate looping. As I did not replace the housing, I made sure to keep the loops as close as I could to how they were when I started this debacle.

    I just ordered whole new cable set. I appreciate all of the help. I'll hopefully check back in with a perfectly working rear mech next week.

    cmn

  21. #21
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    I've been working in shops for well over 20 years and I don't think I've ever had a single galvanized cable in stock...ever. They just plain suck. It's hard for me to imagine anyone in the industry for any length of time would listen to your issues and then sell you only a cable. I guess they live in some kind of alternate reality were plastic causes wear on steel. Then again, if he sells galvanized cables...they can definitely get corroded.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    I've been working in shops for well over 20 years and I don't think I've ever had a single galvanized cable in stock...ever. They just plain suck.
    Well you don't know some of the bike shops I've been to. And now that I have an excellent bike shop, the guys there tell me some stories that would make your head spin. They've seen shoddy work done from other shops that they've had to correct. I'm sure you've seen plenty of that too.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Well you don't know some of the bike shops I've been to. And now that I have an excellent bike shop, the guys there tell me some stories that would make your head spin. They've seen shoddy work done from other shops that they've had to correct. I'm sure you've seen plenty of that too.
    So true...I see stuff like that all the time. Every week if not every day. And it's not just the mechanical mistakes. Woman came in this week w/ a new road bike from another local shop. She couldn't believe that it was brand new and wouldn't shift. I put it up in the stand and it was actually set up pretty well. The sales guy had never bothered to ask if she know how 'modern' road shifters work, and I guess she didn't bother to shift on her test ride...if she'd even done one. She didn't know about the 'other' paddle on the shifter. Couldn't figure out how to shift it back after getting in the small cog.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    so true...i see stuff like that all the time. Every week if not every day. And it's not just the mechanical mistakes. Woman came in this week w/ a new road bike from another local shop. She couldn't believe that it was brand new and wouldn't shift. I put it up in the stand and it was actually set up pretty well. The sales guy had never bothered to ask if she know how 'modern' road shifters work, and i guess she didn't bother to shift on her test ride...if she'd even done one. She didn't know about the 'other' paddle on the shifter. Couldn't figure out how to shift it back after getting in the small cog.
    Yikes! But that's not to worst thing a shop could do. A mechanical eff-up could potentially kill someone.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnardone View Post
    Thanks for all the help guys. At the LBS, they just sold me a new cable. sigh. I have to mention that is is a brand new owner, the Mechanic was out on lunch and he only pretty sure this is all I needed.

    and it was a cheap galvanized kind. So that is what I replaced. Just the cable.
    I do think there is adequate looping. As I did not replace the housing, I made sure to keep the loops as close as I could to how they were when I started this debacle.

    I just ordered whole new cable set. I appreciate all of the help. I'll hopefully check back in with a perfectly working rear mech next week.

    cmn
    I assume you get it at this point but in the future I'd suggest being proactive about changing cables. Well, the right shifter one anyway.

    I have Shimano and shift a lot because of where I live and have found that around 5000 they are almost certainly starting to fray and around 3500 is the earliest I've had one fray. They seem to fray sooner the older the shifter is. That could be a coincidence though.

    My routine is to replace the right cable only the end of June (around 3500 miles) then replace all cables and housing once winter hits and I'm off the road (around 7000). It probably makes more sense to just replace housings and cables together but I can't be bothered with taking off bar tape ect every 3500 miles just for one inner cable and it's been fine. Housings shouldn't be shot that soon but cables can fray inside the shifter.

    Don't learn the hard way like I did. Pieces of frayed cables can be a royal pain to deal with once they've worked their way all over the shifters internals and even with tweezers you could miss some and ruin the shifter.
    Decent cables don't cost much and replacing them is a lay-up once you've done it a couple times.

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