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  1. #1
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    Removing rust from cassette and derailleur - beginner help

    Hello!

    As my name suggest I'm a beginner when it comes to bike maintenance. Anyhow, I want to derust my old bikes cassette and derailleur (possibly even the bottom racket), but before I do that I would like some pointers on how to do it and what tools I might need.

    Here's the bike: https://m.imgur.com/a/8rTqd

    I was thinking about soaking the components in vinegar, alternatively, just give everything a good scrub to get rid of the rust.

    I have another bike as well that's even more rusty, in order to fix that one I would have to dissasemble the whole bike.


    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    use a torque wrench

  3. #3
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    Would vinegar be ok to use on the derailleur or would I have to disassemble it to remove the plastic parts?

  4. #4
    hfc
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    Evapo-Rust is great stuff. It is made for removing actual rust, but I have soaked corroded and dirty aluminum parts like derailleurs in it and it cleans up nicely. If that is a cassette, I would also use Evapo-Rust but would not do that if it is a freewheel as the bearings would get jacked up.

    In general for cleaning up hubs and other aluminum parts, I clean with some form of cleaner or WD 40, then some Mothers aluminum polish to shine it up. This is a pic of a Campy FD and RD that was pretty corroded and I soaked them in Evapo-Rust. I take it completely apart and lube everything up when it goes back together.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Removing rust from cassette and derailleur - beginner help-img_7304.jpg  

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    Can't I just remove the ball bearings from the freewheel then? And would vinegar melt the plastic on the derailleur? Not sure if I can find Evapo rust from where I'm at. Are there any substitutes?

    Thank you!

  6. #6
    hfc
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    I don't think vinegar would cause any harm, although it would make your parts smell funny! Taking ball bearings out of a freewheel is pretty advanced work. That would be a moot point though if your rear cluster is a cassette; just take off the lock ring and slip it off the freehub. Post a pic of the hub from the back and we should be able to tell.

    I got my jug of Evapo Rust from Amazon, delivered to my door.

    https://www.amazon.com/Evapo-Rust-ER...ords=evaporust

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    Quote Originally Posted by hfc View Post
    I don't think vinegar would cause any harm, although it would make your parts smell funny! Taking ball bearings out of a freewheel is pretty advanced work. That would be a moot point though if your rear cluster is a cassette; just take off the lock ring and slip it off the freehub. Post a pic of the hub from the back and we should be able to tell.

    I got my jug of Evapo Rust from Amazon, delivered to my door.

    https://www.amazon.com/Evapo-Rust-ER...ords=evaporust


    I have been reading around and people mostly say that it is unnecessary to clean the bearings if you do not really have to. But I also read that cleaning the freewheel whilst intact can cause problems with the bearings, but also that it might be doable to inject some oil from the outside after cleaning...

    It is a really bad bike, a temporary bike, that I want to fix up on a budget just for fun, just to learn how bikes work.

    I have watched some videos on the subject and it does not seem overly difficult to do, just time consuming and fiddly. But if I could clean the whole freewheel intact, and then maybe just spray some WD-40 and then inject some oil into the bearings that would save a lot of time.

    I will upload some pictures tomorrow. The whole drive train is rusty actually, so I would have to clean the front and the back and buy a new chain.


    Extra question: Do I need a chain whip for all freewhels/free hubs? I have watched a few different videos and a chain whip only seems to be used in some videos? Is it a must have or can you do without it? A freewheel remover is necessary though. right?

    Thanks!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenoob View Post
    Can't I just remove the ball bearings from the freewheel then? And would vinegar melt the plastic on the derailleur? Not sure if I can find Evapo rust from where I'm at. Are there any substitutes?

    Thank you!
    Vinegar is a weak acid. I'm not sure it will work. It won't melt plastic, but it may further pit the metal.

    If you can't find Evapo-Rust where you are, there must be other rust removal products available.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Vinegar is a weak acid. I'm not sure it will work. It won't melt plastic, but it may further pit the metal.

    If you can't find Evapo-Rust where you are, there must be other rust removal products available.
    Saw a lot of videos on youtube where they used white vinegar to remove rust, it worked very well actually! And it seems like white vinegar affects some types of plastic.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenoob View Post
    Saw a lot of videos on youtube where they used white vinegar to remove rust, it worked very well actually! And it seems like white vinegar affects some types of plastic.
    You can try it. I make no guarantees though.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    You can try it. I make no guarantees though.
    I will try to find some rust remover, but my original question is still if I need to take a part the derailleur and the freewheel if I can just dump everything as is and the add oil afterwards?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenoob View Post
    Cwould vinegar melt the plastic on the derailleur?
    Vinegar is sold in plastic bottles. It will have no effect on plastic parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenoob View Post
    I will try to find some rust remover, but my original question is still if I need to take a part the derailleur and the freewheel if I can just dump everything as is and the add oil afterwards?
    The derailleur pivots can be lubed (a couple of drops of oil) after your soaking routine. The derailleur pulleys probably should be disassembled and relubed after a soaking. A freewheel can be lubed by putting the wheel horizontal with the freewheel facing up. Put oil in the area between the small cog and the axle, and spin the freewheel as the oil penetrates. Add more oil as needed until oil starts coming out the hub side of the freewheel. Keep a rag down there to soak up oil as you will have more in the freewheel than you need.

    Of course if we are talking about a cassette instead of a freewheel, then none of this applies. Cassette bearings are often sealed devices that can't really be lubed. There is (used to be?) a device called a Freehub Buddy for injecting grease into freehubs but that might not really work for modern freehubs.

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    Forget about the rust on the cassette, just lube the chain and ride the bike. The rust will be gone in no time.

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    first, is it a freewheel or a cassette?

    if freewheel, just replace it. search ebay for "sunrace freewheel."

    replace the chain with a sram pc-850 from ebay.

    i use naval jelly for rust.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    first, is it a freewheel or a cassette?

    if freewheel, just replace it. search ebay for "sunrace freewheel."

    replace the chain with a sram pc-850 from ebay.

    i use naval jelly for rust.

    It is a freewheel, but I am doing this for "fun". I want to learn how bikes work!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenoob View Post
    It is a freewheel, but I am doing this for "fun". I want to learn how bikes work!
    usually not worth it to overhaul a freewheel. it's pretty much considered a consumable, like the chain and tires. overhaul everything else -- hubs, headset, bb, pedals, etc... new fw's with ramps work better and are inexpensive. only if the old one is really cool and rare would you want to remove the rust and overhaul it.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  18. #18
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    Removing rust from cassette and derailleur - beginner help

    Back on the farm, we didn't have much, so we had to reuse what we had.
    We used to service everything.
    We had really old school shimano freewheels, and we would lay the wheel flat, the lock ring for the freewheel is around the opening for the axle. The ones we had, had two dimples equidistant around the circumference. Make a match mark for the ring and the body. I don't know if there was a real tool for it, so we would use a nail set and hammer, and tap each dimple a little bit back and forth on one side and the other, until the ring loosened up.
    When that thing starts to spin, go slow, remove the ring, hold the gearset down, and use a magnet to pick up the ring. Underneath find a whole bunch of tiny ass ball bearings. Magnet them out. You may have some shims too. Holding the gear set still tight to the wheel, flip it over with something under it. Drop the gear set, and have another pile of bearings fall out.
    Count the bearings and keep them separate. Clean everything.
    Reassembly: reassembly is reverse of disassembly. invert the gear set, use light grease to hold back bearings in, bring the wheel down to the gear set, flip it over, install shims, then bearings, with light grease.
    Tighten lock ring as it was removed, tighten to the match mark you made earlier.
    But really, you could just throw the complete freewheel in the dishwasher, then drizzle light oil in as someone mentioned above.
    Either way will work.
    Yes, I am serious on both accounts.

    Sent from TeamNothstein Global HQ
    Last edited by davez26; 1 Week Ago at 07:25 PM.

  19. #19
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    Your photos show 8 cogs....Shimano 8 speed wheels were cassettes.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by davez26 View Post
    Back on the farm, we didn't have much, so we had to reuse what we had.
    We used to service everything.
    We had really old school shimano freewheels, and we would lay the wheel flat, the lock ring for the freewheel is around the opening for the axle. The ones we had, had two dimples equidistant around the circumference. Make a match mark for the ring and the body. I don't know if there was a real tool for it, so we would use a nail set and hammer, and tap each dimple a little bit back and forth on one side and the other, until the ring loosened up.
    When that thing starts to spin, go slow, remove the ring, hold the gearset down, and use a magnet to pick up the ring. Underneath find a whole bunch of tiny ass ball bearings. Magnet them out. You may have some shims too. Holding the gear set still tight to the wheel, flip it over with something under it. Drop the gear set, and have another pile of bearings fall out.
    Count the bearings and keep them separate. Clean everything.
    Reassembly: reassembly is reverse of disassembly. invert the gear set, use light grease to hold back bearings in, bring the wheel down to the gear set, flip it over, install shims, then bearings, with light grease.
    Tighten lock ring as it was removed, tighten to the match mark you made earlier.
    But really, you could just throw the complete freewheel in the dishwasher, then drizzle light oil in as someone mentioned above.
    Either way will work.
    Yes, I am serious on both accounts.
    Yup. Used to do this sometimes back in the day. And sometimes a FW would come new that was too loose or too tight, and so you would scavenge shim washers from old FWs. You kids today don't know what you're missing

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Yup. Used to do this sometimes back in the day. And sometimes a FW would come new that was too loose or too tight, and so you would scavenge shim washers from old FWs. You kids today don't know what you're missing

    We sure don't know what we're missing :
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Removing rust from cassette and derailleur - beginner help-wooden-bike.jpg  
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



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