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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexdi View Post
    Video and Kinovea. Very powerful stuff. Not quite ready to share, though.



    I think there's actually a range of positions for the saddle relative to the bottom bracket. If you imagine the BB as a fulcrum, you can pivot your entire body around it, even to the point of a nearly vertical or horizontal seat angles. (This spans recumbent to TT bikes.) For any particular saddle (but not necessarily a different saddle entirely), this approach implies some backward or forward tilt relative to your ideal neutral position.

    Then there's fore-aft adjustment. A lower saddle moved slightly aft can have the same KOPS position. With the seat further back, you end up bending more at the torso with your weight shifted further back, using slightly different muscles.

    This variability is part of what makes bike fitting so challenging.


    Will do.
    Can't disagree more. There is no fore/aft, or height range. But that's just one man's opinion.

  2. #27
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    Saddle advice for long distance?-steve-hogg-seat-height-1.jpg
    Saddle advice for long distance?-steve-hogg-seat-height-2.jpg

    Steve Hogg stuff for seat position.
    use a torque wrench

  3. #28
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    To each their own when it comes to saddles, but I find the Specialized Romin series to be easy to find and comfortable.

  4. #29
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    Fizik Aliante

    check out the review of the Aliante. Still a fantastic saddle.
    Fizik Aliante Carbon Twin Flex Pro Review | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos
    Also it seems like maybe your seat height is too high.

  5. #30
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    Im proportioned just as you and went through the same issues. I suspect its your fit. With long legs and a very short torso, hip angle becomes critical and a 4" drop may be too much. I would look at saddle ht and bar ht. After testing many saddles I ended up with the Spec Power. But no saddle will compensate for bike fit issues requiring you to get off the bike after only 30 miles.

  6. #31
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    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Matador-IV View Post
    Im proportioned just as you and went through the same issues. I suspect its your fit. With long legs and a very short torso, hip angle becomes critical and a 4" drop may be too much. I would look at saddle ht and bar ht. After testing many saddles I ended up with the Spec Power. But no saddle will compensate for bike fit issues requiring you to get off the bike after only 30 miles.
    Totally agree. FWIW, my drop is 3''. So more spacers/more upright stem, maybe shorter stem? And perhaps move the saddle forward.

  7. #32
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    The saddle/bar drop thing is a challenge, I've already maxed out the steerer and installed an upturned stem. Now I'm looking into cleat systems with lower stack height and potentially changing out the cranks.

    I'm going to park this for now, I just had a surgery that'll keep me off the bike for a bit. Lots of great directions to pursue when I'm back, though, thanks.

  8. #33
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    May be worth considering trading in for a frame that really fits you.

  9. #34
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    As before, if that exists, I haven't found. It'd have to be custom.

  10. #35
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    My impression.

    75% chance that frame is too small. Frame too small is better than too big.
    90% chance OP is improperly adjusting his own fit.

    Basis:
    -4" saddle to bar drop on endurance frame with rise stem and long steerer.
    -All this talk of moving saddle forward to adjust reach. Improper to adjust saddle forward/aft to change reach.
    -There is only one proper saddle position (+/- a small amount). That proper saddle position is determined by proper saddle height via proper knee angle at BDC. After that KOPS (or whatever) to set saddle forward/aft position. Then pick a stem to get your bar in the right place based upon where you butt has to be.

    YMMV, IME, IMO,etc. 20+ years of riding and racing plus 6 years as a wrench.
    - Also with the disclaimer that OP did not post photos. But, just getting this impression from OP's posts and total discomfort on the bike.
    - FWIW 10 and 40 mile rides are not long.

    OP hope you heal quickly. Then get to a shop and get fitted. I often disagree with the pro fitting mafia around here. But, you need help. Your DIY ain't working.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexdi View Post
    OK. I don't have any experience with that sort of saddle, does it make sense to choose a narrow one?
    Can you please post a picture of you on the bike sideways to check out your fit on te bike?
    Without this it is pointless to give you advice.
    Then there is this video on you tube that tells you all the main points and how to adjust your position. On any frame based on some basic measurements and distances that can. Be done by yourself.
    I did it and after the basic fit you adjust everything else based on pains and discomfort, riding style etc.
    But for starters please post a picture of you on the bike.


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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexdi View Post
    Excellent tips, thanks. I've got a significant discount with Garneau and Pearl Izumi, I wonder if their high-end shorts would compare with the others you've suggested.
    Pearly Izumi Pro series chamois are quite good really, I have several pair of those. I wouldn't get anything lower than the pro though. They aren't Assos S7 quality but might be as good as their lower line Neo.
    Moderation is boring - do epic s##t

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  13. #38
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    hmm, i didn't have similar experience to you but i did get numb genitals, i first switched over to ISM PN 1.1 was a great experience if i'm riding on the hoods, somehow it hurts when i'm on the drops. adjusting angles and etc didnt help much. but since then i've moved on to selle smp and that saddle works wonders for both upright and aero riding.

    Note: i didnt read most of the convo except OP's thread. don't flame me too hard if i missed anything!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Brooks Team Professional.Attachment 320805
    I ride Brooks. Not for everyone, but lots of people who ride lots of miles use them. They are still around for a reason, and the reason is NOT hipsters.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Pearly Izumi Pro series chamois are quite good really, I have several pair of those. I wouldn't get anything lower than the pro though. They aren't Assos S7 quality but might be as good as their lower line Neo.
    Probikekit premium bib shorts are excellent shorts that can be bought on special for $50. I have bought about 6 and switched all my bibs to those. Really nice high en for the price of generics.


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  16. #41
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    No amount of chamois quality will offset the bad fit or wrong saddle shape. Those two need to be taken care before fiddling with bib/shorts.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    No amount of chamois quality will offset the bad fit or wrong saddle shape. Those two need to be taken care before fiddling with bib/shorts.
    True but since no one here knows what the right shape and fit is a bad chamois can make or break any saddle. I've got a good saddle for me (verified at least by Cyclologic and their cool ass saddle pressure mapping tech) and a cheap POS pair of shorts compared to what I like make the saddle feel like two different saddles. That's the point. They are both super important. I'd advise anyone to just stop wasting time on cheap shorts and go with a really high end one...then fart around with the saddle.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodys737 View Post
    True but since no one here knows what the right shape and fit is a bad chamois can make or break any saddle. I've got a good saddle for me (verified at least by Cyclologic and their cool ass saddle pressure mapping tech) and a cheap POS pair of shorts compared to what I like make the saddle feel like two different saddles. That's the point. They are both super important. I'd advise anyone to just stop wasting time on cheap shorts and go with a really high end one...then fart around with the saddle.
    I wish it were as easy as just buying high end. Bibs make or break my comfort but as to which ones work it's a complete mystery to me until I try them. I haven't found much of a correlation with price. In fact by far the worse, for me, I've ever used were the most expensive. And the best were/are mid-range.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlitin View Post
    Probikekit premium bib shorts are excellent shorts that can be bought on special for $50. I have bought about 6 and switched all my bibs to those. Really nice high en for the price of generics.
    Aha! A solid looking pair of shorts that I've yet to try. Can't find such a thing anymore, thanks, I'm going to try these.

    I see some inferior design aspects vs. Assos, but I'm still hunting for a budget pair of bibs I can recommend, something around $50. These might be it. The chamois looks capable. The straps and privates management not the best, but we'll see.
    use a torque wrench

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    I ride Brooks. Not for everyone, but lots of people who ride lots of miles use them. They are still around for a reason, and the reason is NOT hipsters.
    No. Hipsters love the B72.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I wish it were as easy as just buying high end. Bibs make or break my comfort but as to which ones work it's a complete mystery to me until I try them. I haven't found much of a correlation with price. In fact by far the worse, for me, I've ever used were the most expensive. And the best were/are mid-range.
    I always hesitate to chime in on these threads because, as you are well aware, they just ooze subjectivity. In a general sense, I just wanted to write that IME bibs/pads make a huge difference in the same saddle. With that said, I suppose if one wears the same shorts through the trial and error process in finding a saddle even if the pad is not so good one could still feel the difference. I think I'm rather picky so unless I didn't have confidence in the pad/bib I wouldn't go saddle shopping. Maybe that's what I was trying to convey.

    Slight thread drift but it's pertinent...I just had a TT bike fit at this place called Cyclologic in Scottsdale AZ. I've known the fitter for years and he does a ton of work with Trek and the world tour team. Anyways, he helped pioneer saddle pressure mapping. I can not write about the intricacies of the process with much intelligence but, with the help of the software as well as the entire fit process, we made some relatively small changes which resulted in an amazing amount more comfort; lower overall and less frontal area. Unreal!

    So for morons like me the moral of the story is think about a good bike fit as well. Obviously I understand not everyone is into this like me and maybe this is over the top. But, I ride a bit and want to avoid injury primarily then eek out performance gains...

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    Aha! A solid looking pair of shorts that I've yet to try. Can't find such a thing anymore, thanks, I'm going to try these.

    I see some inferior design aspects vs. Assos, but I'm still hunting for a budget pair of bibs I can recommend, something around $50. These might be it. The chamois looks capable. The straps and privates management not the best, but we'll see.
    Not really. They are top notch. I dunno who makes them but they are excellent.
    Better than my 120$ ones.
    The padding is great too.
    They are so good that they are on fricking back order for the XL. I have been trying to get more in blue which is really nice and no luck.
    Their socks are great too. I have like 10 pairs. The jerseys are not bad but are made for the topical skinny arm rider. The large fits me well at 5"11 200lbs but they are a little bit tight around the arms. The material is nice and they are long. I would buy more if the arms would be more relaxed.



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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodys737 View Post
    True but since no one here knows what the right shape and fit is a bad chamois can make or break any saddle. I've got a good saddle for me (verified at least by Cyclologic and their cool ass saddle pressure mapping tech) and a cheap POS pair of shorts compared to what I like make the saddle feel like two different saddles. That's the point. They are both super important. I'd advise anyone to just stop wasting time on cheap shorts and go with a really high end one...then fart around with the saddle.
    I don't know about you but my cheap bike shorts do fine when I found the right saddle for my a$$. With the wrong saddle, it felt like hell, with the right saddle, it feels like heaven.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    I don't know about you but my cheap bike shorts do fine when I found the right saddle for my a$$. With the wrong saddle, it felt like hell, with the right saddle, it feels like heaven.
    That's awesome but, not so for me unfortunately.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    If not already, measure your sit bone width. Then look up saddles that fit your width. I've tried over a dozen saddles to find the right one for me. It was a costly process but hey, keister is the boss so you gotta obey.
    Sit bone measuring is marketing. None of us sit on our sit bones - we sit on the narrower ischium.

    Reading the OP's story I would concur that the attempt to locate his body to suit the geometry of his bike rather than sitting on the saddle with the same leg angle as everyone else could be a big source of the trouble.


    The saddles the OP has tried so far are mostly curved from left to right, putting the sit bones on angled surfaces. Try a saddle with a flatter rear surface. We make one.
    Get a better saddle: www.kontactbike.com

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