Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39
  1. #1
    pmf
    pmf is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    4,385

    Shimano Ultegra 8000 is out

    Looks like the best bang for the buck in components is disappearing. Shimano improved Ultegra -- especially the price. Ribble has 6800 at $593; 8000 at $991! That's a 50%+ increase in price. For what? My wife has a bike with Dura Ace 9000 and another one with Dura Ace 9100. She thinks there's little difference between the two except for the front derailer. She prefers the shifting of 9000 over 9100.

    It's tempting to buy a 6800 group before they go away forever. Maybe one of my kids will need a bike sometime.

  2. #2
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,514
    The big difference is that 6800 will eventually be sold out and if you want new Ultegra, you will have to buy 8000.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  3. #3
    Adorable Furry Hombre
    Reputation: Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    24,769
    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Looks like the best bang for the buck in components is disappearing. Shimano improved Ultegra -- especially the price. Ribble has 6800 at $593; 8000 at $991! That's a 50%+ increase in price. For what? My wife has a bike with Dura Ace 9000 and another one with Dura Ace 9100. She thinks there's little difference between the two except for the front derailer. She prefers the shifting of 9000 over 9100.

    It's tempting to buy a 6800 group before they go away forever. Maybe one of my kids will need a bike sometime.

    It has a much bigger number. 1,200 to be exact. It must be 1,200 better. Considering it is only $400USD more expensive-that is a steal!
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  4. #4
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    271
    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Shimano improved Ultegra -- especially the price. Ribble has 6800 at $593; 8000 at $991! That's a 50%+ increase in price. For what?
    I would imagine the current price premium is the cost of having the very latest groupset that has just been released. SRAM eTap was initially insanely expensive when first released and has now come down. I don't see any reason to assume that the current price at Ribble tells us much at all about what R8000 will cost in November or February.

    Looks like the best bang for the buck in components is disappearing.
    I think it's too soon to jump to that conclusion. I'm guessing that R8000 will be available for around $750 (maybe less) at some point in the next 6 months. And for most of the time it was available 6800 sold for about $650. So maybe a small increases but right now the 50% premium is all about low supply and high (and inelastic at these quantities) demand. The people who absolutely want R8000 right now, will pay the premium; the rest of us will wait. After all, if the new ultegra stayed at a price level near $1000 we know it wouldn't sell well, since that is higher than Campy Chorus, higher than SRAM Force, and not much less than the current dura ace mechanical.

  5. #5
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,514
    Sounds about right, Fron. Price a new product high to lure the "I have to have the latest and greatest" crowd. Reminds me of the people who wait in line for the latest iPhone or latest version of Windows.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  6. #6
    Adorable Furry Hombre
    Reputation: Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    24,769
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Sounds about right, Fron. Price a new product high to lure the "I have to have the latest and greatest" crowd. Reminds me of the people who wait in line for the latest iPhone or latest version of Windows.
    OTOH...prices only go up and not down. Further, these are the UK prices which are always lower than US pricing.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  7. #7
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    7,860
    Part of the equation is an increase but part of it is that Ultegra 6800 was crazy cheap. So it's as much a 'return to normal' as it is increase here.

    I would guess the first generation 11 speed was so cheap to sway suckers into abandoning perfectly good 10 speed and now that they've plucked all those people they can return to more regular pricing.

  8. #8
    pmf
    pmf is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    4,385
    Dura Ace 9100 is around $1500 (UK price), which is significantly more than $1000 for Ultegra 8000. The new Ultegra is not going down in price. Dura Ace never did after it was "improved". Campy did the same thing with their groups from Chorus on up, but the price didn't change much if any. I have both renditions of Chorus 11-speed on bikes and really can tell no difference. The cranks now resemble Shimano cranks which I don't see as an improvement.

    I guess I agree with Jay, Ultegra 6800 was crazy cheap. 105 can still be had for $400.

    I remember paying $1000 for Dura Ace 7700 groups 20 years ago. At that time, they came with hubs and a worthless threaded head set. God, I'm old.

  9. #9
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    90
    I don't think the high pricing will stick. The thing is that 6800, 5800, (probably 4700 but I've not tried it) and even 4600 work so well nowadays that selling premium gear becomes difficult.

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,514
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Part of the equation is an increase but part of it is that Ultegra 6800 was crazy cheap. So it's as much a 'return to normal' as it is increase here.

    I would guess the first generation 11 speed was so cheap to sway suckers into abandoning perfectly good 10 speed and now that they've plucked all those people they can return to more regular pricing.
    Was 6800 really "crazy cheap" when it first came out?
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  11. #11
    Adorable Furry Hombre
    Reputation: Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    24,769
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Was 6800 really "crazy cheap" when it first came out?
    Shimano Ultegra 6800 mechanical groupset - first look - BikeRadar

    Of course we have the opposite situation here...the UK pricing has been seen but not the US...
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  12. #12
    pmf
    pmf is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    4,385
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Was 6800 really "crazy cheap" when it first came out?
    Yes. There was a thread here about it. Someone even said I bet they sell millions of groups at that price.

    105 will get 'improved' next and jump 50% in price. For a lot of people, that's as low down the Shimano ladder as they're willing to go.

  13. #13
    Adorable Furry Hombre
    Reputation: Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    24,769
    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Yes. There was a thread here about it. Someone even said I bet they sell millions of groups at that price.

    105 will get 'improved' next and jump 50% in price. For a lot of people, that's as low down the Shimano ladder as they're willing to go.
    Was it cheap in US pricing though? Lots of UK dealers list cheapo Shimano...problem being they almost never have any stock to sell.

    For reference...TexasCycleSport lists 6800 (mechanical non-disc) at $750 USD at present down from $950 normal list. And TXCycleSport are far from the most expensive online US retailers out there.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  14. #14
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    271
    I still think it will come down in price. I already found a UK site that lists it for $900.

    And 6800 did come down in price. When it was first released I was building a bike and looked at 6800 but couldn't get it for less than $800 at the time (just released) and so went with campy Athena.

    I agree with Jay about the low pricing of 6800 used to tempt folks to switch to 11s, so it makes since that 8000 will come with a price increase. But I think it's going to be 10-15%, not 50%.

    And at any rate, it's too soon to tell, since it's not true that prices only go up. Lots of goods today are at their highest price point when they are just released, and go down from there. 6800 came down, new iPhones come down, in-demand new model cars come down.

    At at some point over the winter Ribble will have a sale and people will pick up 8000 for under $800. Still a bit more than 6800, but not the end of the world.

  15. #15
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    7,860
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Was 6800 really "crazy cheap" when it first came out?
    In the context of this thread which is someone comparing apples to apples but listing the price of each from the same source, yes, it certainly was and is.

  16. #16
    No lie, man!
    Reputation: frons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    735
    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    It's tempting to buy a 6800 group before they go away forever. Maybe one of my kids will need a bike sometime.
    Short cable life on all Shimano 11s mechanical groups is what keeps me from upgrading.

  17. #17
    Adorable Furry Hombre
    Reputation: Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    24,769
    Quote Originally Posted by frons View Post
    Short cable life on all Shimano 11s mechanical groups is what keeps me from upgrading.
    *cough di2 cough*

    As I was telling a mate thinking about a build yesterday...the bike jewelry is only going to get more expensive the more you wait.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  18. #18
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,514
    Quote Originally Posted by frons View Post
    Short cable life on all Shimano 11s mechanical groups is what keeps me from upgrading.
    That started with the 5700/6700/7900 10-speed groupos.

    Di2 has its own issues. There are no free lunches.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  19. #19
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    271

    ALREADY dropping in price

    Ribble's Prices Today, 7 July 2017

    6800 – $607
    8000 – $867

    R8000 is still just-released and in short supply, and Ribble has already lowered the price significantly – it's dropped 15% since this thread was started.

    At the moment R8000 is just barely higher in price than 6800 was when it was first released. And $867 is NOT the lowest price we'll see for R8000; it will drop more.

  20. #20
    Adorable Furry Hombre
    Reputation: Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    24,769
    Quote Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
    Ribble's Prices Today, 7 July 2017

    6800 – $607
    8000 – $867

    R8000 is still just-released and in short supply, and Ribble has already lowered the price significantly – it's dropped 15% since this thread was started.

    At the moment R8000 is just barely higher in price than 6800 was when it was first released. And $867 is NOT the lowest price we'll see for R8000; it will drop more.
    Catch being...UK dealers seldom ever have Shimano in stock...for good reason given their export pricing.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  21. #21
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    271
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Catch being...UK dealers seldom ever have Shimano in stock...for good reason given their export pricing.
    That's just not true.

    Those groupsets are in stock now.

    I have ordered a dozen groupsets from Ribble. Sometimes their supply is hit or miss on Di2 but they have had mechanical groupsets in stock almost always over the past year.

  22. #22
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,514
    Over a year ago, Shimano lowered maximum retail prices dealers could charge across the board. However, Shimano did not lower wholesale prices charged to dealers. This is putting the squeeze on retailers to the point that some try to shy people away from Shimano because they make little profit.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    271
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Over a year ago, Shimano lowered maximum retail prices dealers could charge across the board. However, Shimano did not lower wholesale prices charged to dealers. This is putting the squeeze on retailers to the point that some try to shy people away from Shimano because they make little profit.
    Interesting and fair point. Didn't know about this.

    I was was a campy guy for a while, but I'm also my own mechanic, so I've gone 100% Shinano - mainly for that reason but also because electronic shifting is SO much cheaper with shimano.

  24. #24
    Off the back
    Reputation: fast ferd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,832
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Over a year ago, Shimano lowered maximum retail prices dealers could charge across the board. However, Shimano did not lower wholesale prices charged to dealers. This is putting the squeeze on retailers to the point that some try to shy people away from Shimano because they make little profit.
    Maximum retail prices? Is that like limiting how much dealers (same meaning as retailers?) could gouge the public. The dealer might feel good about getting his huge markup a time or two, but sooner or later it catches up with them. An internet-savvy shopper will always compare pricing beforehand. Any buyer not doing their homework ahead of time will likely find out later, then resent the dealer for the exorbitant price.

    I think dealers get too hung up on markup, from inner tubes to groupsets. It might work for the small dollar items, but they cannot expect to apply the same markup % to a groupset or pricier components. The dealer needs $ to attempt to cover monthly fixed (overhead) costs, not variable transaction costs.

  25. #25
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,514
    Fast Ferd,

    In all defense of brick and mortar bike shops, they are already at a severe disadvantage over internet vendors who have much, much lower expenses. Sure, everybody loves a great bargain, but in the end, there are really no free lunches.

    Some bike shops are starting to price match internet stores on parts. They are making next to nothing by doing this, but it is more of a way to keep satisfied customers coming back for things like repair and future bike purchases.

    How will the internet service your bike when all the bike shops go out of business?
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. New Ultegra 8000 compatibility with 6800
    By alxrmrs in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-02-2017, 12:16 PM
  2. Dow below 8000....
    By KenB in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 11-29-2008, 07:54 PM
  3. 8000, coming right up!
    By KenB in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 10-10-2008, 12:17 PM
  4. BB-8000 center sleeve installation necessary
    By jparman in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-27-2008, 06:58 PM
  5. Beware Possible Trek 8000 Scam
    By VTwood05 in forum Classifieds Feedback - Scam Warnings
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-14-2004, 04:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •