swapping bottom brackets

[George M]

have a 2005 Jamis Coda, bought in 2007 and I have 10,000 miles on it. I was thinking about changing the bottom bracket out, to a integrated spindle with the external cups. That way, I can use any cranks that I would like to use, in a 48/36/26 configuration.

Am I better off using a new BB that I have now, which is a Deore Octalink with a splined spindle . I thought it may have a better seal than the one with the external cups.
Thanks for any replies.

[INeedGears]

Well, I'm not sure which way you'll be better off as there are variables but...You cannot use any crank you want with an external cup BB. They are still brand specific (e.g. Shimano BB cups will not work with a GXP crank etc)

[SilverStar]

First off, there are no external cup BBs with an integrated spindle. The spindle is part of the crankset, not the BB.

Second, the seals in Octalink BB cartridges are pretty decent. I find it hard to believe an external cup model would have better seals (unless it is something like a Chris King setup).

[nightfend]

If you switch bottom brackets, you'll have to switch cranks as well.

[Kontact]

I do not understand the OP. Cranks and BB generally go together.

It is true that Shimano external cup BB work with both double and triple Shimano integrated spindle Hollowtech cranks, but only Shimano, FSA and a few others will work. BBs for integrated spindle cranks are unusual in having this flexibility, but not many triples are available for them.

Octalink is double or triple specific - 109.5 spindle for doubles, 118 for triples. Not interchangeable.

I don't see any reason to switch cranks back and forth, or to purchase a BB first, then decide on a crank.

[George M]

I do not understand the OP. Cranks and BB generally go together.

It is true that Shimano external cup BB work with both double and triple Shimano integrated spindle Hollowtech cranks, but only Shimano, FSA and a few others will work. BBs for integrated spindle cranks are unusual in having this flexibility, but not many triples are available for them.

Octalink is double or triple specific - 109.5 spindle for doubles, 118 for triples. Not interchangeable.

I don't see any reason to switch cranks back and forth, or to purchase a BB first, then decide on a crank.

I was thinking about upgrading the cranks and bottom bracket and I know that the shimano cranks has to go with a Shimano BB, but I'm thinking that the Octalink BB would be better than the external cups. I've heard that the External cups only last about 5000 miles. I have close to 10 K on the Octalink and they seem to be in pretty good shape. I want to keep the gearing the same as I have now. I thought I could get a better crank set and bottom bracket if I upgraded a couple steps up, but it sounds like I should stay with what I have. I was going to look on line to see if I could get a backup Octalink, but I'll have to see what size I need. I know it's a 68 mm BB, but I'll have to check out the length, when I pull it.

Correction, I just read that I'll need a 118, on your reply. So I'll order a crank puller and a tool for the spindle and pull it out to check it out. If it's OK , I'll just grease it up again and reinstall the old one. Or am I better off just putting the new one in.

Do you think I should order a new crank set as well. I'm worried with the updates they keep doing, I wont be able to get on later.

Thanks very much for the replies, it sure helps a lot.

I should also note that the Deore cranks that are on there are FC M 530- 531

Will this one work?
SHIMANO BB-ES25 OCTALINK Bottom Bracket 68mm/118mm NEW | eBay

[AndrwSwitch]

Whoa, slow down!

You don't need to remove anything to check your bottom bracket. Actually, I just read another thread about the same topic.

When To Replace a Bottom Bracket

See post #2.

What crank do you have now? 48/36/26 isn't a super-common setup, so getting a complete crankset that way may not be likely. I know that Velo-orange has something similar, and I know that Race Face has a similar set of rings available as a package listed in QBP. What you can do as a ring change will depend on the crank you already have; either the V-O or a MTB crankset with trekking rings would be my choice if I didn't have the right crank to accept a new set of rings. If I replaced the crank, as others have said, I'd go with whichever bottom bracket that implied. I don't think there are any standards that I would find unacceptable. Except maybe the FSA BB-4800. That thing is garbage.

[George M]

Whoa, slow down!

You don't need to remove anything to check your bottom bracket. Actually, I just read another thread about the same topic.

When To Replace a Bottom Bracket

See post #2.

What crank do you have now? 48/36/26 isn't a super-common setup, so getting a complete crankset that way may not be likely. I know that Velo-orange has something similar, and I know that Race Face has a similar set of rings available as a package listed in QBP. What you can do as a ring change will depend on the crank you already have; either the V-O or a MTB crankset with trekking rings would be my choice if I didn't have the right crank to accept a new set of rings. If I replaced the crank, as others have said, I'd go with whichever bottom bracket that implied. I don't think there are any standards that I would find unacceptable. Except maybe the FSA BB-4800. That thing is garbage.

Thanks Andrew, I did read that, but I was thinking about ordering a BB anyway. The way Shimano keeps changing things, I just wanter to be ready
. I was told those external cups don't last long, so I wanted to stay with the one I have.

[AndrwSwitch]

I doubt that Shimano will quit making Octalink bottom brackets anytime soon. I guess it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

Do you already have the rings you want? If not, decide how you're going to do that before you start stockpiling parts for what may be the wrong crank for you anyway.

[George M]

I doubt that Shimano will quit making Octalink bottom brackets anytime soon. I guess it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

Do you already have the rings you want? If not, decide how you're going to do that before you start stockpiling parts for what may be the wrong crank for you anyway.

I was going to try and get the whole crank set, in the same gears. If not I'll have to get something that's close. I really wanted to go with a Sugino crank set, but I really don't know anything about that setup.

I just back from Velo and they want $195 for that crank set and I really don't want to pay that much.

[AndrwSwitch]

I'm really confused.

Do you have 48/36/26 rings or not?

What crankset do you have?

[George M]

I'm really confused.

Do you have 48/36/26 rings or not?

What crankset do you have?

I have a Deore 48/36/26 with a Octalink BB

[AndrwSwitch]

If your bottom bracket and chain rings are undamaged, just ride what you've got and be happy.

I have to say, your first post confused me a lot - when you said you'd like to have a 48/36/26 configuration, and this post's being on a road bike forum, it suggested to me that you have a road crank.

If something needs replacement, here's a complete crankset. If your cost to get everything ship-shape starts to approach the cost of this, buy this instead.

Shimano Deore M590 Crankset W/BB > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA

It's also a mountain bike crankset. It has external cups, which I find very easy to install and just as functional as every other system. It ships with almost everything you need - you still need a new tool to install it, probably, but that's it.

[onespeedbiker]

I have a Deore 48/36/26 with a Octalink BB

Okay, lets reword (tell me if I'm wrong). You currently have a Shimano Octalink Crank 48/36/26 with about 10,000 miles on it and it needs replacement. I like the setup, but I'm concerned that Octalink will disappear so I'm thinking about replacing the crankset with an external bearing system so parts will be available for it in the future; however I an concerned about the longevity of the external bearings. Any suggestions?

If this is what you are concerned about, I would stick with what you like and if the system is unsupported in the future, you can worry about it then. I have several sets of higher end square taper Sugino cranks and the are more than worth the money; you get what you pay for.

[George M]

If your bottom bracket and chain rings are undamaged, just ride what you've got and be happy.

I have to say, your first post confused me a lot - when you said you'd like to have a 48/36/26 configuration, and this post's being on a road bike forum, it suggested to me that you have a road crank.

If something needs replacement, here's a complete crankset. If your cost to get everything ship-shape starts to approach the cost of this, buy this instead.

Shimano Deore M590 Crankset W/BB > Components > Drivetrain > Cranksets | Jenson USA

It's also a mountain bike crankset. It has external cups, which I find very easy to install and just as functional as every other system. It ships with almost everything you need - you still need a new tool to install it, probably, but that's it.

Yes that's the one I was going to get, but I wanted to upgrade the BB. Would that be a 118 mm in lenght for the triple ?

Thanks for all the help.
Would that be a

[George M]

Okay, lets reword (tell me if I'm wrong). You currently have a Shimano Octalink Crank 48/36/26 with about 10,000 miles on it and it needs replacement. I like the setup, but I'm concerned that Octalink will disappear so I'm thinking about replacing the crankset with an external bearing system so parts will be available for it in the future; however I an concerned about the longevity of the external bearings. Any suggestions?

If this is what you are concerned about, I would stick with what you like and if the system is unsupported in the future, you can worry about it then. I have several sets of higher end square taper Sugino cranks and the are more than worth the money; you get what you pay for.

That's about it, I guess. Sorry to have confused you guys. This is my first time trying to tackle the
bb and crank set. It doesn't sound to hard, once I get everything I need.

One more question if I may. Will the Park BB tool work on Shimano and Sram as well?

[onespeedbiker]

I have to say, your first post confused me a lot - when you said you'd like to have a 48/36/26 configuration, and this post's being on a road bike forum, it suggested to me that you have a road crank.

The Jamis Coda is a flat bar road bike with a 48/36/26 crankset; these are very common with touring bikes and tandems, Mountain bike derailleurs are commonly used when a 32t or 34t cassette is wanted on a road bike and the Sugino XD2 default chainrings are 46/36/24 or 48/36/26. Besides some technical issues that can usually be circumvented (and don't apply here), I don't see what difference it makes whether the crank is technically a "mountain bike" crank or not.

[PoorCyclist]

My bike lost about 200g just changing the Octalink BB to and external GXP, of course the crank is also changed.. It was not cheap but the total weight lost is over 1 lb with the crank and BB change.

One thing you may want to pay a shop to do when you do this is have the BB shell faced and clean up any excess paint and make sure things are nice and aligned for external BB, which is sensitive to the BB shell alignment but doesn't matter to the octalink BB. Here is a before and after pic to see why it is needed.

[AndrwSwitch]

The Deore M590 crankset I linked to uses an external bottom bracket. It comes with its bottom bracket. While there are a couple of different models of that BB available, I wouldn't bother "upgrading" from the stock Deore Hollowtech II bottom bracket that will come in the package. And, there's no length of anything to worry about. It's a very different system.

[George M]

I was going to try it myself, but maybe I should have them do the first one. That really looks clean. I wonder what the life of the external BB will be?

[Kontact]

My bike lost about 200g just changing the Octalink BB to and external GXP, of course the crank is also changed.. It was not cheap but the total weight lost is over 1 lb with the crank and BB change.

One thing you may want to pay a shop to do when you do this is have the BB shell faced and clean up any excess paint and make sure things are nice and aligned for external BB, which is sensitive to the BB shell alignment but doesn't matter to the octalink BB. Here is a before and after pic to see why it is needed.

It depends. My Ritchey WCS road cranks plus Octalink BB weigh 820 grams, while DA 7800 plus BB weigh closer to 840 grams. Octalink was not heavy and combined with the right cranks can be very light indeed.

George, my 109 vs. 118 post was for road, only. With mountain components you need to buy the right shell width and spindle length, and I don't recall right off what a Deore like yours uses.


In general, cranks don't wear out. If you have a back up BB and replace chainrings as they wear out (which is not quickly), the crank you have could last as long as anything you own. I would consider getting spare BB to keep and stop worrying about it.

[onespeedbiker]

With exterior BB cranks, you don't buy BB by axle length, the axle is built into the crank. In this case the the BB cups like these Universal Cycles -- Shimano M590/543 Deore HT2 Bottom Bracket Cups are included. You just thread them in the appropriate side of the BB shell, insert the axle which is connected to the drive side and connect the non-drive side crank arm. There is a cheap little tool that allows you to set the pre-load and then you tighten the bolts on the non-drive crank arm. You will also need an exterior BB tool, looks like this Park Tool Co. » BBT-19 : Bottom Bracket Tool : Bottom Bracket.

Just do this in reverse How to Go About Adjusting Or Removal Of A Shimano Bottom Bracket

[George M]

It depends. My Ritchey WCS road cranks plus Octalink BB weigh 820 grams, while DA 7800 plus BB weigh closer to 840 grams. Octalink was not heavy and combined with the right cranks can be very light indeed.

George, my 109 vs. 118 post was for road, only. With mountain components you need to buy the right shell width and spindle length, and I don't recall right off what a Deore like yours uses.


In general, cranks don't wear out. If you have a back up BB and replace chainrings as they wear out (which is not quickly), the crank you have could last as long as anything you own. I would consider getting spare BB to keep and stop worrying about it.

After looking up everything you guys posted, I think I'm going to take Kontact's suggestion. I'm going to order the tools that I need for now, so I can pull this bb apart to check the size and be done with. I just have a feeling that the Octalink may be a little better. I would like to find out how long the External bearings last. The guy at the bike shop said 5000 miles.

Thanks everybody for all your replies and have a good night.

[dawgless]

In terms of longevity, it's tough to say. On my prior mountain bike, it had external bearings that were purported to be Phil Wood bearings. The prior owner I bought the bike from indicated they had been changed after he had the bike for one year, and when I bought it, the bike was four years old. I had the bike for about 7 months when I got a weird creaking noise. Thought the frame was cracked... Turns out, one of the bearings was about ready to seize. I bought two new bearings, to the tune of ~$60, did the swap and no more noise.

I'd just clean up what you've got, make sure there's no play in the BB shaft(indicating bad bearings), and keep riding. It's good to have the tools to take it apart, but really, it's not going to be such a high maintenance thing, especially if you're not riding through mud and keeping a lot of water on the area. Just make sure you never blast the BB area with high pressure water so as to force water into the bearings.