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  1. #1
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    Trying to remove a stubborn bearing, but extractor won't work.

    I was trying to replace the bearings in my bottom bracket. I have a Wheels Mfg bearing extractor of the proper size, and I'm using it correctly.

    It won't pull the bearing when I try to hammer it. Instead, the extractor simply gets hammered out of the bearing. It doesn't grip the inner race strongly enough.

    I know there are bearing extractors that can grip the bearing from its inner face (ie the side that's facing inside the bottom bracket), but there's not enough of this exposed. The only way to get this bearing out is with friction against the inner race.

    So what gives? Am I just not tightening this extractor enough? I feel like I'm tightening the hell out of it, and I don't want to put any more strain on the BB shell by tightening it further.

    Am I missing something here?

  2. #2
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waspinator View Post
    I was trying to replace the bearings in my bottom bracket. I have a Wheels Mfg bearing extractor of the proper size, and I'm using it correctly.

    It won't pull the bearing when I try to hammer it. Instead, the extractor simply gets hammered out of the bearing. It doesn't grip the inner race strongly enough.

    I know there are bearing extractors that can grip the bearing from its inner face (ie the side that's facing inside the bottom bracket), but there's not enough of this exposed. The only way to get this bearing out is with friction against the inner race.

    So what gives? Am I just not tightening this extractor enough? I feel like I'm tightening the hell out of it, and I don't want to put any more strain on the BB shell by tightening it further.

    Am I missing something here?
    Yeah, like telling us what kind of bb you're working with.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Yeah, like telling us what kind of bb you're working with.
    whats the opinion on Titanium frames these days.

    So that would be PF30 .

    OP.
    What Bottom Bracket did you install?
    What is the WMF bearing extractor you bought (Model number)?


    You just put this bike together about 3 weeks ago right? Any reason for the overhaul so soon?
    Last edited by kiwisimon; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:05 PM. Reason: question for OP

  4. #4
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    I installed a Hope PF46 30mm bottom bracket. I had purchased the Hope BB press and followed the instructions precisely. In hindsight, I shouldn't have. The drive side bearing takes a beating the way Hope instructs you to install the bottom bracket. It now grinds and has "bumps" when I turn the inner race. I figured I should replace the bearing.

    So, how do I get the bearing out?
    Last edited by Waspinator; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:31 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waspinator View Post
    I installed a Hope PF46 30mm bottom bracket. I had purchased the Hope BB press and followed the instructions precisely. In hindsight, I should have. The drive side bearing takes a beating the way Hope instructs you to install the bottom bracket. It now grinds and has "bumps" when I turn the inner race. I figured I should replace the bearing.

    So, how do I get the bearing out?
    that is a bit contradictory. You had no trouble installing the drive side bearing? Or you wish you hadn't followed their instructions because you did have trouble on the installation? Do you think you may have crushed the bearing at all? Check the the seal is correctly seated as they can create friction sometimes. Now have you removed the center tube already? I'd probably flick off a quick e mail or tweet to Hope and ask them for removal tips. Maybe others have more knowledge and can help better.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    that is a bit contradictory. You had no trouble installing the drive side bearing? Or you wish you hadn't followed their instructions because you did have trouble on the installation? Do you think you may have crushed the bearing at all? Check the the seal is correctly seated as they can create friction sometimes. Now have you removed the center tube already? I'd probably flick off a quick e mail or tweet to Hope and ask them for removal tips. Maybe others have more knowledge and can help better.
    I shouldn't have followed their instructions, because their instructions have you perform all of the pressing steps (three in total) by pushing/pulling against the drive side bearing. It's unbelievable. It was against my better judgment but I decided to follow their instructions. At the conclusion of the very last step (ie seating the non-drive side bearing), the drive side bearing had had enough. Its movement was harsh and bumpy.

    I'm pretty sure it's an issue with the bearing itself. You know the feeling of a bearing with too much preload on it? It grinds and has bumpiness to the feel when you turn whatever runs through it. That's how this bearing moves when I manually turn the inner race with my finger. I haven't removed the center tube because this bearing extractor is supposed to be installed from the outside anyway.

    This BB is an excellent product. It has, in my opinion, the best design of all the PF 30 BBs out there to eliminate the problems of the PF30 standard. The installation instructions are just really dumb. Next time, I'd use something that pushes on the bearing cup, and not the bearing.
    Last edited by Waspinator; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:39 AM.

  7. #7
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    I watched the video and don't see where there is that much pressure on the DS bearing if you are using the 30mm adapter. He did say don't go crazy with the torque. Have you tried using a correct size drift from the NDS and tapping out the whole cup and trying again. AND if you read the instruction leaflet they do have this caveat,


    I think you may have had a bit of an operator error. Are you able to swallow your pride and get a proshop to do it for you? It will probably work out cheaper in the long run. BTW:You can use the Hope tool with a drift to remove the BB which will make pressing out the bearing easier.

    Good luck, remember: if you get impatient, walk away.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Trying to remove a stubborn bearing, but extractor won't work.-caveat.jpg  

  8. #8
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    I'm wondering if the seating surface was adequately cleaned and prepped before you put the bearing in? This could explain why it was hard going in, got stuck, and now will not come out. If a simple "inside tool" will not get it out, your next step is to have a professional remove it, either with a specialized tool that grabs the outer race (if possible), or by destroying the bearing, and "machining out" the remnants.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    I'm wondering if the seating surface was adequately cleaned and prepped before you put the bearing in?
    That was my first thought as well. Depends if Lightspeed do that at the factory or expect the mechanic to do it as a matter of course.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    I watched the video and don't see where there is that much pressure on the DS bearing if you are using the 30mm adapter. He did say don't go crazy with the torque. Have you tried using a correct size drift from the NDS and tapping out the whole cup and trying again. AND if you read the instruction leaflet they do have this caveat,

    I think you may have had a bit of an operator error. Are you able to swallow your pride and get a proshop to do it for you? It will probably work out cheaper in the long run. BTW:You can use the Hope tool with a drift to remove the BB which will make pressing out the bearing easier.

    Good luck, remember: if you get impatient, walk away.
    Trust me... there was no operator error. I followed the instructions precisely. Have a look at them and you'll see what I'm talking about:

    http://www.hopetech.com/wp-content/u...n_Complete.pdf

    At every step of the process where something is pressed in, the drive side bearing is enduring the pressing force.

    I should also mention that this is the second one of these headsets I've installed, and has the exact same problem the first time I installed it. At that time, I thought I had screwed something up and just replaced the bearing without question. (I was able to remove the bearing without issue).

    As for my LBS.... not a chance. Not on a $4900 bicycle frame.

  11. #11
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    Who prepped the BB shell? Do you have reaming and facing tools?
    It's happened twice to you in succession, I think your prep is maybe the problem.

    If you are using the 30mm bearing adapter the stresses are spread out over the entire bearing which is supported by the cup. There is not enough force exerted during a regular installation to stress the inner runner. Least not what I can see.



    Outside of the BB shell having not being prepped properly the only way you can foreseeably screw up the bearing on installation would be either misalignment or by rotating the spanner on the DS instead on on the NDS. The forces required normally won't fudge the bearing. Maybe up some pics.


    "As for my LBS.... not a chance. Not on a $4900 bicycle frame."

    do you send your car in for servicing?


    You need a better LBS in that case.

    It sounds like you might be in over your head so perhaps find a top shop and send it to them.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    Who prepped the BB shell? Do you have reaming and facing tools?
    It's happened twice to you in succession, I think your prep is maybe the problem.

    If you are using the 30mm bearing adapter the stresses are spread out over the entire bearing which is supported by the cup. There is not enough force exerted during a regular installation to stress the inner runner. Least not what I can see.



    Outside of the BB shell having not being prepped properly the only way you can foreseeably screw up the bearing on installation would be either misalignment or by rotating the spanner on the DS instead on on the NDS. The forces required normally won't fudge the bearing. Maybe up some pics.


    "As for my LBS.... not a chance. Not on a $4900 bicycle frame."

    do you send your car in for servicing?


    You need a better LBS in that case.

    It sounds like you might be in over your head so perhaps find a top shop and send it to them.
    The first frame on which i installed this model of bottom bracket was a Ridley Noah. Which I know doesn't have a properly reamed and faced bottom bracket shell. The Litespeed is properly reamed and faced.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waspinator View Post
    I have a Wheels Mfg bearing extractor

    It won't pull the bearing when I try to hammer it. Instead, the extractor simply gets hammered out of the bearing. It doesn't grip the inner race strongly enough.

    So what gives? Am I just not tightening this extractor enough?
    That extractor sucks. I borrowed one from a friend once. It was useless.
    If you've got a tight bearing, the tool just slides out when you hammer it. And if you tighten it more, for more friction, it starts to distort the bearing OD... making it even tighter.

    Try laying your bike on the floor. Fill a zip lock with crushed ice and water. Set it on top of the bearing, push it down into the race a bit. Let it sit for 10 min then try removing it.
    I've had tight bearings pop right out after doing this.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waspinator View Post
    As for my LBS.... not a chance. Not on a $4900 bicycle frame.
    If you have that little confidence in your LBS, you need to find a different LBS. There are good shops out there - really!
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    That extractor sucks. I borrowed one from a friend once. It was useless.
    If you've got a tight bearing, the tool just slides out when you hammer it. And if you tighten it more, for more friction, it starts to distort the bearing OD... making it even tighter.

    Try laying your bike on the floor. Fill a zip lock with crushed ice and water. Set it on top of the bearing, push it down into the race a bit. Let it sit for 10 min then try removing it.
    I've had tight bearings pop right out after doing this.
    Yes!!!!!

    Now THIS is an example of a perfect response. This is actionable advice. Maybe it will work. Maybe it won't. But it's a very helpful response. I absolutely will try it.

    Much appreciated.

  16. #16
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    FWIW, titanium is a really hard metal, and burrs from machining are quite common. If you are used to cleaning out aluminum surfaces, well, most of the tools used will not be up to the needs on titanium. I would suggest either a rounded machinist's stone, or maybe some sort of rounded file that is truly 'file hard' (Rc60). Maybe a cylindrical grinding stone on a Dremel, but be forewarned; titanium produced LOT of hot, bright sparks!

    Also, the heat modulus of aluminum is much greater than titanium, so gentle heat application will be much less useful. If the outer ring of the bearing is aluminum, the ice may work. If stainless, not so much....
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waspinator View Post
    Yes!!!!!

    Now THIS is an example of a perfect response. This is actionable advice. Maybe it will work. Maybe it won't. But it's a very helpful response. I absolutely will try it.

    Much appreciated.
    Good idea. Try adding a bunch of salt to the water to make it even colder

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    Assuming you removed the center piece, is there some reason a Park BBT-30 wouldn't work?

    scott s.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by harryman View Post
    Good idea. Try adding a bunch of salt to the water to make it even colder
    Ummmmm......

    Salt won't make the water colder. It simply lowers the freezing temperature (and raises the boiling point).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott967 View Post
    Assuming you removed the center piece, is there some reason a Park BBT-30 wouldn't work?

    scott s.
    .
    I haven't removed the center piece.

    In order to do that, I'd have to remove the non-drive side bearing.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waspinator View Post
    Ummmmm......

    Salt won't make the water colder. It simply lowers the freezing temperature (and raises the boiling point).
    Sorta.. just adding salt to water won't do anything, but putting salt water in the freezer will end up with colder water still in the liquid phase.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waspinator View Post
    Salt won't make the water colder. It simply lowers the freezing temperature (and raises the boiling point).
    How could it not make it colder? Assuming you have a large quanitity of ice.

    If it lowers the freezing temperature, and it is melting, it is colder! Period.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    How could it not make it colder? Assuming you have a large quanitity of ice.

    If it lowers the freezing temperature, and it is melting, it is colder! Period.
    If ice is -5 degrees and salty water is -5 degrees which is colder Einstein? I'm using Celcius as that is the measure most folks use.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waspinator View Post
    Ummmmm......

    Salt won't make the water colder. It simply lowers the freezing temperature (and raises the boiling point).
    The salt solution does lower the freezing/melting boundary allowing the water/ice solution to equalize at a lower temp.

    Since this is the internets: http://sciencing.com/adding-salt-wat...r-5459114.html

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    If ice is -5 degrees and salty water is -5 degrees which is colder Einstein? I'm using Celcius as that is the measure most folks use.
    Ice can't be -5d C, cause at 0d C, it melts.
    Ice with salt has a lower melting point, therefore it will be below 0d C when it melts, ergo a lower temperature.
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