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  1. #1
    Nob
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    When you buddy crashes your bike? Need some insight please?

    So the verbal agreement before hand was quite specific and to the point in exactly these words....."you break it, you buy it".


    The story:

    I loaned a buddy my S-Works Roubaix SL3 for a 200 mile group ride with the agreement before hand listed above, specifically for training and riding this event which we would be doing together. He drove from the east coast to the west coast and didn't bring a bike. The ride was simply an after thought while he was here.

    The down side?

    In a 25+ mph pace line..the rider behind him clipped his rear wheel and dumped them both. Road rash and some blood was involved but nothing serious. But bad enough. I as more worried about him than the bike. A quick check of the bike after he was patched up showed the stem, saddle and wheels off center. But I beat the first two around by hand and recentered the wheels to ride into the next rest stop. More road rash treatment and another once over on the bike. He was good to go for the final 150 miles of the ride and did well.

    One more fall happened at the next rest stop because he couldn't get out of his peddles. Haven't checked the peddles or cleats yet. But that one myself a tiem or two and generally fooked things up.

    The bike on the other hand I am now worried about. It is a full carbon bike. The Durace shifters have the front "nose cones" collapsed. They still work but look literally like someone took a framing hammer to them. FSA carbon bars seem OK. But no question they took a pounding and a really hard hit. The stem was crooked and on closer inspection the stem cap was totally loosed up, and ready to fall out. Seems like the glued in stem insert had moved upwards. Very weird as the stem was still pretty tight and butt up again the frame. The fork "looks" good. As does the frame from what I can see. The saddle and seat stem took a BIG hit as well. Enought to drop it 3 or 4 .inches in the nose at one point besides being off center. Scuffs on the seat mean it will need replacing. I think that happened when you was ran over by the culprit one he was dumped.

    New Polar CS 500 mount was broken..computer seems OK but haven't tried it on another bike yet to see for sure. Seems the new wind sensors are no longer working or the computer isn't or both.

    Front derailier got slammed and scratched. But is working for the moment. Chain rings seem OK. Good couple of scatches on the crank arms as well.

    Question for anyone in the know on carbon. I figure a hard wreck like this can't be good. Should I replace the fork, seat stem and bars? What about the frame?

    Should I hold the rider to a new bike or just the replacement parts.

    It is bad because now I am questioning if I can trust the frame and any of the major carbon parts. I'm a big boy at 190 and a bar or fork snapping is not a good thing to have in the back of your mind at 40+ mph. Opinions appreciated.
    Last edited by Nob; 07-16-2012 at 08:26 PM.

  2. #2
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    Best you can do with a frame is the "sound test" where you keep tapping the frame, looking for a dull sound or just a very different resonance. There's that, and feeling all over for soft spots. I wouldn't trust the fork period. God forbid you give that a chance and it fails on you. Same goes with handlebars.

    As for the rest of the stuff, time to find out how much of a buddy he is. Of course you can show some class and save him from replacing stuff that is only cosmetically damaged. Or maybe you can cut him slack in splitting the payment for the whole bike or settling for a lesser bike. He's probably feeling the guilt up to his gills.

    Still, there is no objection to holding him to a full replacement because you did agree to such terms. I mean assuming that the frame is somehow confirmed 100% safe, you're left with a half-trashed bike, and it just sucks to know it with every ride - especially because it wasn't your fault.

  3. #3
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    Your buddy needs to step up and give you full replacement cost for a new bike.....Otherwise you'll always have some lingering doubt in your mind as to weather or not you can trust the integrity of the bike....not good. Your buddy knew this risk involved and assumed responsibility.....
    Last edited by kattywhumpus; 07-16-2012 at 03:12 AM. Reason: hangover...

  4. #4
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    You have broken the cardinal rule my friend. Never let anyone ride your prized possession. Assuming everything had worked out fine, all would have been well. It was a race though, and you should have known better. I would have been more comfortable lending him my Porsche keys at a Leguna Seca run, at least my bicycle would still be in one piece. You need to send him the remains of your bicycle in a Fed Ex box with a reminder that you break, you buy. That simple. I wouldn't trust the carbon on the frame until a rep from Specialized looked at it. If I trash my prized possession it's an experience. If my friend does, it's a tragedy.
    With people like Peter P. around, I am done posting on this website. Mean people have driven me off after 9 plus years. Good luck newbies beware.

  5. #5
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    I would be nervous about riding the bike after that. It may be fine, but who really knows? My barmac handles bars on my S-Works Tarmac snapped in a sprint and I went down hard at 30 mph. Fixed the bike and sold it, full disclosure. I just didn't trust it! The bike looked fine, but the handlebar looked fine before it snapped too.

    Take your buddy to the bike shop, try to find the same exact bike or really similar, have him buy it for you and give him the one he crashed in exchange.

    And, like another poster said, NEVER let ANYONE ride your bike in an event like that. I've never let anyone ride it at all, much less in a 200 mile ride (I'll guessing this was STP?).

  6. #6
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    I would expect your friend to step up and pay for damages in order to get the bike into the condition prior to borrowing.

  7. #7
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    From your description, there's no reason to suspect the frame or fork to be compromised in any way. Apparently there's no scratches on them anywhere. Mind you, that's not a guarantee, but you could have a pro look over those items. If my guess is correct, have him replace the scratched/broken items, and learn your lesson.

  8. #8
    tlg
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    Take it to your LBS. Have them inspect it and write up a detailed quote of what it will take to repair. Then you have something in writing (from a 3rd party) to negotiate with your "friend". And if it turns out to be very costly and you wind up in small claims court over this you have evidence to back up your claim.

    You can't get a new bike out of it. The bike is used so it has depreciated value. Determining the depreciated value of a bike (or any of its components) will always be a tough decision.

  9. #9
    Fierce Pancake
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    1. According to your agreement, your friend needs to buy your bike off you (not a new one). How you value the bike after depreciation etc is for you and him to negotiate.
    2. Never lend your prized bikes to your friends. You risk losing both.

    In future, have a junker as a loaner or just say, "I value my bike and your friendship too much to risk losing either."
    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
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  10. #10
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    About your agreement: Was it written like a formal contract, verbal, or simply written on a beer bottle? Your friendship will be tested by that unfortunate event nevertheless.

    I am only speculating that the reason you lent your buddy your S-Works was because it's not your primary or best ride, maybe your alternate or training bike only. If so, then you won't be losing riding time this year and you have lots of wiggle room on when and how to tackle the problem.

    The best way is to have it inspected by your trusted LBS. Everybody knows how fragile bike parts are primarily because of their lightness so expect to replace a significant portion. But hopefully the frame would be spared.

  11. #11
    Not a climber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinjukan View Post
    About your agreement: Was it written like a formal contract, verbal, or simply written on a beer bottle? Your friendship will be tested by that unfortunate event nevertheless.

    I am only speculating that the reason you lent your buddy your S-Works was because it's not your primary or best ride, maybe your alternate or training bike only. If so, then you won't be losing riding time this year and you have lots of wiggle room on when and how to tackle the problem.

    The best way is to have it inspected by your trusted LBS. Everybody knows how fragile bike parts are primarily because of their lightness so expect to replace a significant portion. But hopefully the frame would be spared.
    I agree here. Take the bike to a shop and have them look it over. It cost me $30 after my recent crash, and that included taking apart the BB and headset to make sure the tubes and bearings were ok. I broadsided a car going around 25 mph and I know my bike did a few somersaults after I came off of it. I haven't replaced anything except the bar tape and it seems fine after a few rides.

    As for the cash of replacing stuff. I understand if you're upset for the scratched parts. Maybe if the shop says "hey replace the seat post or seat" or whatever, get your buddy to pay for it. He should have no problem, he accepted that responsibility when he rode the bike, even though the crash wasn't his fault. No way in hell I'd ride a friend's $5k+ bike and not expect to give him any money when I wreck it.

  12. #12
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    This event wasn't a race but a mass ride? In a auto accident, you always obtain info from everyone involved in the accident. Did anyone obtain the contact info from the rider that caused this accident? Were there witnesses & was it documented? Secondly I would definitely take the bike to a shop to have it inspected & a price estimate for necessary repairs or replacement.

    Once you have an idea of what the costs might be, then you should discuss with your "friend" what your lbs informed you of the costs involved to repair/replace will be. I for one would definitely contact the rider that caused this crash & seek some reimbursement. Although you signed a liability waiver absolving the company that runs this ride, I don't believe that it absolves other riders that are negligent in blame.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by qatarbhoy View Post
    1. According to your agreement, your friend needs to buy your bike off you (not a new one). How you value the bike after depreciation etc is for you and him to negotiate.
    2. Never lend your prized bikes to your friends. You risk losing both.

    In future, have a junker as a loaner or just say, "I value my bike and your friendship too much to risk losing either."
    +1. If you were talking to an insurance company, they would pay you the value for the frame at time of accident, not a new replacement (unless this is specifically written into the contract).

    Bad news is that bikes depreciate fast. I have a Colnago ti frame with Record 11 on it, and I doubt I could get more than $1,500 for it. (I do love it more than that though).

  14. #14
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Have you had a chat with your 'buddy' about it?

  15. #15
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    Man on lifeboat to friend: "Yeah, let's take it back to the Local Boat Shop. Hopefully it just needs a few replacement parts and the hull is good to go."
    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschmunk View Post
    I would expect your friend to step up and pay for damages in order to get the bike into the condition prior to borrowing.
    I would expect this too. If my friend didn't do this I would remind him of the "you break it you buy it." I would show him the damage in person or with photos & list the price of each damaged part. I wouldn't list msrp, but common on line prices. I would be friendly as opposed to pissed off, but I would also be firm in expecting payment or replacement of the damaged parts.
    Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them you'll be a mile away & you'll have their shoes.

  17. #17
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    Lesson: Treat your prized bike like your own toothbrush. It shouldn't be lent to anyone, not even your wife or husband since it's been perfectly dialed-in to your specifications. Offer to buy them a pack of beer just to get them off your bike.

  18. #18
    Nob
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    Thanks everyone for the replies. I never had any doubt that my buddy would be good on his word. Just wanted to make it fair for him as well.

    I have a few nice bikes so not that big of deal to loan one. As long as everyone knows the "rules". Thankfully my bikes seldom fit anyone but me. This was a rare occasion and I thought worth the risk to rider (he'd not done 200 miles before) and my bike. I loaned him the most comfortable ride I had, but not my favorite bike He now owes a new bike for pennies on the dollar but also knows why he owns a new bike. I simply can't trust the frame, fork, bars and seat stem anymore. And he loved the bike compared to his Trek at home so hopefully it is a win/win as long as he knows the limitations.

    It all worked out in the end and we are still friends. Not that there was ever a question on that. Bikes are replaceable. Good friends are not. And yes, it was STP. Great ride this year, cool weather, super fast trains and no wind. Cheers!
    Last edited by Nob; 07-16-2012 at 10:34 PM.

  19. #19
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    It's simple. Have a LBS inspect it. Then find out how much it cost to get your bike to the same condition it was before you let him borrow it. Then tell him how much it all costs. If he is your friend, he won't be a dick about it.

  20. #20
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    I didn't see your last reply (the computer was on this page for a while). Glad things turned out right!

  21. #21
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    Hope you didn't charge the guy for full MSRP, unless the thing was brand new before you loaned it.

    But great to hear you guys got things settled out!

  22. #22
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nob View Post
    He now owes a new bike for pennies on the dollar but also knows why he owns a new bike. I simply can't trust the frame, fork, bars and seat stem anymore. And he loved the bike compared to his Trek at home so hopefully it is a win/win as long as he knows the limitations.
    Quote Originally Posted by lolpierandom View Post
    Hope you didn't charge the guy for full MSRP, unless the thing was brand new before you loaned it.
    So how old was the bike and what did he wind up paying you for it?

  23. #23
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    Glad to hear everything turned out all right. Fairness, trust, & responsibility are 3 very important things in every friendship.
    Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them you'll be a mile away & you'll have their shoes.

  24. #24
    vfr
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    He isn't really your buddy. I would never ever ride a friend's bike in that kind of ride for the reason of what happened. Even if I trash a friend's bike, a new one doesn't really make things the way they were. He owes you a new bike.
    "If you can't have fun, don't show up"....me

    "Everywhere I go, fun follows me".....my daughter

    "Only the knife knows what goes on in the heart of the pumpkin" unknown

  25. #25
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    I go along with this reply
    Quote Originally Posted by eschmunk View Post
    I would expect your friend to step up and pay for damages in order to get the bike into the condition prior to borrowing.

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