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  1. #1
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    The Euro riders must be loving American backstabbing

    Has anyone noticed how unscathed the euro riders are through all of this? Lots of euro riders on USPS/Dico/TRS that are walking away scot free. How about Gregory Rast who could ride at the front for days on end and deliver Lance to the base of a climb. How about Eki who rode till he was 100. Popo? All of these riders are clean, yet the Americans are the only ones on the team in the program? Doubtful. Guess who else was on the team. Wiggo. I just missed a british lightning bolt when I typed that. I guess Americans have the whole "I'm not going down alone" mentality that the euro riders don't have. We feel the need to come clean while they do what they do.
    Cyclists really need to learn a little Rule #5.

  2. #2
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    Well...none of the American riders would have come clean if they were not under oath with the legal system.

    The Euro riders are getting away because they didn't have to testify under oath and nobody over there wants to press the issue...if anything it gets ride of the Americans from the Peloton...a Win-Win for the Euros.
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  3. #3
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    What an extraordinarily narrow-minded perspective. When did this become about nationality? And where was this "need to come clean" prior to being subpoenaed?

    Bizarre
    "It never gets easier, you just go faster" - Greg LeMond

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by roddjbrown View Post
    What an extraordinarily narrow-minded perspective. When did this become about nationality? And where was this "need to come clean" prior to being subpoenaed?

    Bizarre
    It became about nationality when only American riders are being named in a "systematic" doping program at USPS by American riders. Don't know how I can spell it out more clearly.
    Cyclists really need to learn a little Rule #5.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by spookyload View Post
    It became about nationality when only American riders are being named in a "systematic" doping program at USPS by American riders. Don't know how I can spell it out more clearly.
    Uh huh. And European riders were never sanctioned for doping before? Were the Americans loving that whilst they continued to dope?

    In answer to your original question I severely doubt it. If you're a doper the last thing you want is increased attention on doping. It's the only reason the omertà works
    "It never gets easier, you just go faster" - Greg LeMond

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by spookyload View Post
    It became about nationality when only American riders are being named in a "systematic" doping program at USPS by American riders. Don't know how I can spell it out more clearly.
    Isn't that mainly because it is the USADA that is behind all of this?

  7. #7
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    I'm not worried. This purge gives clean US up-and-comers a chance to shine.

  8. #8
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    And you are so confident they are and will remain "clean" because...?

  9. #9
    always right sometimes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    I'm not worried. This purge gives clean US up-and-comers a chance to shine.
    ...shine if the Euros clean up their act too...which I believe they will. This whole Lance thing is not American back-stabbing. Perhaps we hold ourselves to a higher standard than the Euros with regards to doping in cycling at the moment. They respect us for it. No doubt.

    Yeh, maybe they have some laughs about it, but they have to respect that we are going after one of our very own "heroes". Not easy.

  10. #10
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    "none of the American riders would have come clean if they were not under oath with the legal system."

    Not exactly......

    They could have "forgotten" what happened. Nobody can force you to remember something.

    They were probably threatened with lifetime bans, and were told to sign a confession, and get a little slap on the wrist, or else have to bullseye moved to them.

    When "big money" is involved, people will always look for an edge.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
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  11. #11
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    Don't claim that the Euros aren't going after dopers.

    Pantani, Ullrich and Contador have all been suspended at their prime. Lance gets banned years after he quit.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    They could have "forgotten" what happened. Nobody can force you to remember something.
    Perjury, especially if it's something a judge/jury thinks you should remember, and others remember it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinelli 82220 View Post
    Don't claim that the Euros aren't going after dopers.

    Pantani, Ullrich and Contador have all been suspended at their prime. Lance gets banned years after he quit.
    Indeed.

    After working with USADA, Padua investigators close in on Ferrari, riders

    The list of potential targets in the investigation includes Bertagnolli (Lampre-ISD), Alessandro Petacchi (Lampre-ISD), Yaroslav Popovych (RadioShack-Nissan), Visconti (Movistar), Scarponi (Lampre), Morris Possoni (Lampre), Diego Caccia (Farnese Vini-Selle Italia), Alexandr Kolobnev (Katusha), Mikhail Ignatiev (Katusha), Vladimir Gusev (Katusha), Vladimir Karpets (Movistar), Evgeni Petrov (Astana), Denis Menchov (Katusha) and Filippo Pozzato (Farnese Vini).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    This whole Lance thing is not American back-stabbing. Perhaps we hold ourselves to a higher standard than the Euros with regards to doping in cycling at the moment. They respect us for it. No doubt.

    Yeh, maybe they have some laughs about it, but they have to respect that we are going after one of our very own "heroes". Not easy.
    Wow ... respect and no back stabbing? I don't even know what to say. They respect us for bagging one guy while "X" number admit to also dopping but get off with 6 months because they turned evidence against him? One gets to ride the tour and retire gracefully? You might want to read what some of the other riders have said. Not specifically about LA but how they feel about the equality or lack thereof of how some are treated

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokh On View Post
    They respect us for bagging one guy while "X" number admit to also dopping but get off with 6 months because they turned evidence against him? d
    Lance was offered the same deal, but his arrogance would not let him tell the truth

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by spookyload View Post
    ... How about Eki who rode till he was 100. ....
    hey now, Eki is the same age as me and I am still kicking ass, thankyouverymuch.

    / haters.
    * not actually a Rock Star

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinelli 82220 View Post
    Perjury, especially if it's something a judge/jury thinks you should remember, and others remember it.
    +1 The days when "I don't recall" shielded you from a perjury rap, if they ever existed, ended quite a few years ago.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti View Post
    Lance was offered the same deal, but his arrogance would not let him tell the truth
    This is exactly the problem for me Dr. F. I'm not on here in support or against LA. I'm freakin sick of the endless, sometimes ridiculous threads. My beef is with the system. My comments here and elsewhere are directed to how doping is handled as a whole. If everyone's concern is the greater good of the sport and not just being a Lance hater then why are "deals" acceptable?

    I agree with Bill Strickland's observation. In general, society today IS ok with questionable moral methods and/or scruples used in gaining testimony. We all now know that Tygart has given out get out of jail free cards. I'm curious what did he say or what methods were used to convince so many to admit to wrong doing and only get 6 months? 6 months pretty much during the off season. I for one am not a fan of Tygart.

    What about the posts during the Contador debacle? Guilty is guilty ... regardless. People were unhappy how his 2 years were handled. I guess those posts are only applicable to Contador? Is there a difference because the others admitted under pressure vs. actually failing a test?

    What about the UCI? What say do they have in this?

    Do you really believe in the end bagging LA with go far in cleaning up the sport? Be honest. Respect? please ... you can read any number of stories from outside the US and see that respect is typically not a word associated with Tygart.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokh On View Post
    This is exactly the problem for me Dr. F. I'm not on here in support or against LA. I'm freakin sick of the endless, sometimes ridiculous threads. My beef is with the system. My comments here and elsewhere are directed to how doping is handled as a whole. If everyone's concern is the greater good of the sport and not just being a Lance hater then why are "deals" acceptable?

    I agree with Bill Strickland's observation. In general, society today IS ok with questionable moral methods and/or scruples used in gaining testimony. We all now know that Tygart has given out get out of jail free cards. I'm curious what did he say or what methods were used to convince so many to admit to wrong doing and only get 6 months? 6 months pretty much during the off season. I for one am not a fan of Tygart.

    What about the posts during the Contador debacle? Guilty is guilty ... regardless. People were unhappy how his 2 years were handled. I guess those posts are only applicable to Contador? Is there a difference because the others admitted under pressure vs. actually failing a test?

    What about the UCI? What say do they have in this?

    Do you really believe in the end bagging LA with go far in cleaning up the sport? Be honest. Respect? please ... you can read any number of stories from outside the US and see that respect is typically not a word associated with Tygart.
    Could you be specific as your post makes no sense? Maybe bullet points?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by spookyload View Post
    It became about nationality when only American riders are being named in a "systematic" doping program at USPS by American riders. Don't know how I can spell it out more clearly.
    So by your logic that makes it OK for me, as a non American, not to give a rat's arse about how many U.S. riders get nailed. How on earth you think this thing is about nationality is beyond me. They are where they are because they doped. They were dealt with by USADA because that's what USADA is there to do.
    Hopefully the Euro riders who doped and the Euro D.S.'s like Bruyneel and Riis, and the Europeans who 'administer' and 'regulate' the sport at the U.C.I. are gonna get nailed too. That will make me just as happy. An American dopes, gets his fellow Americans to dope, pays an Italian doctor for his doping expertise, has the dope administered by Spanish doctors, has his French gardener bike EPO around France during the Tour... I smell a persecution complex.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir duke View Post
    So by your logic that makes it OK for me, as a non American, not to give a rat's arse about how many U.S. riders get nailed. How on earth you think this thing is about nationality is beyond me. They are where they are because they doped. They were dealt with by USADA because that's what USADA is there to do.
    Hopefully the Euro riders who doped and the Euro D.S.'s like Bruyneel and Riis, and the Europeans who 'administer' and 'regulate' the sport at the U.C.I. are gonna get nailed too. That will make me just as happy. An American dopes, gets his fellow Americans to dope, pays an Italian doctor for his doping expertise, has the dope administered by Spanish doctors, has his French gardener bike EPO around France during the Tour... I smell a persecution complex.
    You misunderstood my topic I think. I was referring to the pro's in Europe who are sitting back watching all of this unfold and seeing their American competition get less for next year. I wasn't referring to people who ride in Europe.
    Cyclists really need to learn a little Rule #5.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by spookyload View Post
    You misunderstood my topic I think. I was referring to the pro's in Europe who are sitting back watching all of this unfold and seeing their American competition get less for next year. I wasn't referring to people who ride in Europe.
    what are you talking about? the riders were either old as dirt and about to retire or their ban is over by the start of the racing season.
    Blows your hair back.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    ...shine if the Euros clean up their act too...which I believe they will. This whole Lance thing is not American back-stabbing. Perhaps we hold ourselves to a higher standard than the Euros with regards to doping in cycling at the moment. They respect us for it. No doubt.

    Yeh, maybe they have some laughs about it, but they have to respect that we are going after one of our very own "heroes". Not easy.
    As a European and Brit my hat is off to USADA. 'Chapeau'!
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  24. #24
    wots...uh the deal?
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    I don't know. But I would bet that a few Euro riders are sweating things out. If this movement really catches fire and other riders start naming names, then it could become a fire sale.

    But it probably won't.

    This does make me think back to the 80s though...when the Euro boys were very slow to let Americans into the "club". Even with a full team and GL riding, they still weren't fully accepted. If you were a pro Euro rider back then, knowing that 1) a lot of riders were using something extra and outside the rules and 2) Americans tend to have an overdeveloped sense of justice and were naive at some of these things...would you have welcomed them? When you finally let someone like LA into the club, woudn't you have made him swear in blood to never let the secrets out?

    Yea, I think that the old school Euro riders are sweating this out. (And that most of the riders are still old school)
    martymoose

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmoose View Post
    2) Americans tend to have an overdeveloped sense of justice
    pretty much what every country thinks of their own....
    Blows your hair back.

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