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  1. #1
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    Frank Schleck suspended from Team CSC-Saxo Bank

    Frank Schleck has been suspended from his team after admitting transferring 7000 Euro to a Swiss bank account allegedly belonging to Dr. Fuentes for medical/training advices.
    Frank also tries to excuse himself by saying that he stopped all contacts before Operation Puerto broke.
    He also says he is willing to give DNA samples.

    http://www.teamcsc-saxobank.com/ny_news.asp?n_id=2147


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    Last edited by interested; 10-03-2008 at 03:52 AM. Reason: Spelling error

  2. #2
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    Does he really think that cycling fans are that gullible?

  3. #3
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    well, yes.

    Relying on the gullibility of cycling fans has served many dopers pretty well - why change now?
    Biking round the world -- Where have I been with my bike?

  4. #4
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    Wink Oh, and here is a zinger...

    Oh, and here is a zinger from the cyclingnews.com story:

    "Riis said that "We were very disappointed to hear that Fränk has been in contact with people who have done great harm to the sport and ruthlessly tarnished the most important principles that we all should adhere to in the fight against doping," calling his behaviour "irresponsible towards himself and his team."

    [sarcasm], [irony]
    So is what Riis saying that Frank has been talking to Riis himself ??? Isn't he his DS? Help me here folks, I'm confused??
    [/sarcasm], [/irony]
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  5. #5
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    Riis is friggin the guiltiest of all. If you look at the last 5 years of pro cycling, look at how many positives, suspensions, our OP names are either on Riis' team, or rode with Riis. Two out of Riis top three riders, Frank, and Basso are either suspended, or on their way. Riis also admitted to doping. Who was his doctor?
    He's the DS, and should know EXACTLY who's doing what. He should be fired. Oh, yeah, he owns the friggin team. A complete joke...

  6. #6
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    Riis is deep in this mess. He employed Checcini as the CSC team coach.....at the same time Checcini was recommending his athletes to Fuentes.

    The idea that Schelck sent $10,000 to Fuentes for training advice is crazy. By the time Schelck had sent the money Manzano had already exposed Fuentes as a doping doctor. There is only one reason to use Fuentes, and that is not for a training schedule.

  7. #7
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    I think that everyone is completely missing the point here....

    Professional cyclists are willing to pay large sums of money to complete strangers in return for absolutely nothing.

    Can it get any better than this? -- this is George Costanza's wet dream come to life!

    As of this afternoon, I am quitting my day job, registering http://www.youdontknowmebutI'll acceptyour$$anyway.com, and waiting for the money to flow in.

    See ya, suckers!
    Biking round the world -- Where have I been with my bike?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpinkt
    Does he really think that cycling fans are that gullible?
    Nah he knows that we cycling fans aren't rational people, we do not look at facts but believe what we want to believe which usually is decided by which teams/riders we prefer.

    What's important to him is that he has provided enough evidence for there not to be any further prosecution.

    Making all his bank transactions available while throwing in a blood sample is more than any other rider has done. Combining this with him not being mentioned in the OP documents there's legally nothing to come after.

    EDIT: my comment about cycling fans obviously indludes myself

    Quote Originally Posted by jhamlin38
    Riis is friggin the guiltiest of all. If you look at the last 5 years of pro cycling, look at how many positives, suspensions, our OP names are either on Riis' team, or rode with Riis. Two out of Riis top three riders, Frank, and Basso are either suspended, or on their way. Riis also admitted to doping. Who was his doctor?
    He's the DS, and should know EXACTLY who's doing what. He should be fired. Oh, yeah, he owns the friggin team. A complete joke...
    Silly talk

    We all know that most of those riders were also doping before and after joining and leaving the team plus the majority of the 50 OP have no connection to the team.

    Not forgetting Jörg Jackse who accused other of his former teams of organized doping and had quite a dispute with Riis has stated that there was no organized doping on team CSC.

    And let's not forget that Riis forced Basso to either leave the team or provide a blood sample, something which would be rather irrational had he himself been directly involved.

    I'm not saying Riis was unaware of doping on the team, but that he kept his hands clean by using Cecchini as middleman and never forced the riders to dope.

    But now that you are so eager to shut down the team, please try to find another team with a cleaner concision who does more in the war against doping.
    Last edited by OctaBech; 10-03-2008 at 07:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OctaBech
    Nah he knows that cycling fans aren't rational people, they do not look at facts but believe what they want to believe which usually is decided by which teams/riders they prefer.

    What's important to him is that he has provided enough evidence for there not to be any further prosecution.

    Making all his bank transactions available while throwing in a blood sample is more than any other rider has done. Combining this with him not being mentioned in the OP documents there's legally nothing to come after.



    Silly talk

    We all know that most of those riders were also doping before and after joining and leaving the team plus the majority of the 50 OP have no connection to the team.

    Not forgetting Jörg Jackse who accused other of his former teams of organized doping and had quite a dispute with Riis has stated that there was no organized doping on team CSC.

    And let's not forget that Riis forced Basso to either leave the team or provide a blood sample, something which would be rather irrational had he himself been directly involved.

    I'm not saying Riis was unaware of doping on the team, but that he kept his hands clean by using Cecchini as middleman and never forced the riders to dope.

    But now that you are so eager to shut down the team, please try to find another team with a cleaner concision who does more in the war against doping.
    I seem to remember that Jorg Jaksche during an interview with German newspaper Der Spiegel said he used performance enhancing drugs during his spell with the CSC team in 2004 and that the Riis knew all about it.

    As for his name not being connected to OP, most riders names were not connected....just their nicknames. I wonder what Schelck's dogs name is?

    From now on I am going to support a clean team, ASTANA!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpinkt
    I seem to remember that Jorg Jaksche during an interview with German newspaper Der Spiegel said he used performance enhancing drugs during his spell with the CSC team in 2004 and that the Riis knew all about it.

    As for his name not being connected to OP, most riders names were not connected....just their nicknames. I wonder what Schelck's dogs name is?

    From now on I am going to support a clean team, ASTANA!
    Finally the genius of Johann isn't that he guided 4 different riders to 12 GT titles but the fact that none of them have been caught under his watch.
    It's like an illusionist where no one can figure out his tricks, not even other illusionists.
    God gave up this world, its people long ago.....Peter Gabriel 1971

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    can you have $$ in a URL?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpinkt
    I seem to remember that Jorg Jaksche during an interview with German newspaper Der Spiegel said he used performance enhancing drugs during his spell with the CSC team in 2004 and that the Riis knew all about it.

    As for his name not being connected to OP, most riders names were not connected....just their nicknames. I wonder what Schelck's dogs name is?

    From now on I am going to support a clean team, ASTANA!
    It would be nice if Astana will do more than just adopting an existing anti doping program, actually it would be great if there was sparked a war between the teams about who does the most to keep the sport clean.

    About Jörg, he said he expected that Riis knew that he was doping but that's far from the sameas organized and forced doping(suspecting and accepting that a rider is on the needle =/= injecting the rider).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippec
    I think that everyone is completely missing the point here....

    Professional cyclists are willing to pay large sums of money to complete strangers in return for absolutely nothing.
    This not exactly what he claims; Frank S. says he had contacts with a couple of named "training experts/coaches". He doesn't name them, but says Dr. Fuentes wasn't among them. He paid them, but shortly after that, his father (and others) warned him about them and told him to break all connections to them.

    The story could be true, and it is even better than Basso's "intent to dope" excuse, since Frank didn't even tried to dope. The point is, that it is almost impossible to prove Franks excuse wrong in a way that could stick up in court. Remember that the Luxemburg UCI chapter has to prove him guilty. So technically Frank is likely to avoid formal charges.
    Frank's excuse is shady, among the many reasons why it is, is the fact that he established contacts with other coaches/doctors than the team approved ones, which is forbidden per the Team CSC-SB's internal rules.

    With McQuaid in charge of UCI no effective AD policies will be implemented by the UCI. But it could be a good idea to legislate so that all athletes reported which doctors and coaches they consulted (like the whereabout system), so athletes could get a doping sentence for what Frank claims he has done.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MG537
    Finally the genius of Johann isn't that he guided 4 different riders to 12 GT titles but the fact that none of them have been caught under his watch.
    It's like an illusionist where no one can figure out his tricks, not even other illusionists.
    I bet it's about connections, not so much bribing the doping control but knowing what types of doping it's capable of.detecting.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpinkt
    Does he really think that cycling fans are that gullible?
    Look at all the rubes who believe Armstrong was paying Ferrari 6 figures a year and prohibiting him from working with his rivals just for training plans

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpinkt
    I seem to remember that Jorg Jaksche during an interview with German newspaper Der Spiegel said he used performance enhancing drugs during his spell with the CSC team in 2004 and that the Riis knew all about it.
    That is an exaggeration of what JJ said, JJ never told or showed Riis anything about his doping, so Riis never knew (with certainty) about JJ's doping. In fact, JJ's testimony says there never was any organized doping on Team CSC, nor that any CSC staff was ever involved.
    What JJ said was that Riis, as a DS, _must_ have known the his riders doped, but that Riis closed his eyes for such activities. Not an unlikely observation, but again, few if any DS's in the Pro Tour league can for the same reasons be said to be completely ignorant on what was going on.


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    Quote Originally Posted by interested
    With McQuaid in charge of UCI no effective AD policies will be implemented by the UCI. But it could be a good idea to legislate so that all athletes reported which doctors and coaches they consulted (like the whereabout system), so athletes could get a doping sentence for what Frank claims he has done.
    That sounds like a great idea.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by interested
    That is an exaggeration of what JJ said, JJ never told or showed Riis anything about his doping, so Riis never knew (with certainty) about JJ's doping. In fact, JJ's testimony says there never was any organized doping on Team CSC, nor that any CSC staff was ever involved.
    What JJ said was that Riis, as a DS, _must_ have known the his riders doped, but that Riis closed his eyes for such activities. Not an unlikely observation, but again, few if any DS's in the Pro Tour league can for the same reasons be said to be completely ignorant on what was going on.


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    I thought there was something about a specific conversation (on a ski gondola?) where Jaksche claimed they discussed doping?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne Barry
    Look at all the rubes who believe Armstrong was paying Ferrari 6 figures a year and prohibiting him from working with his rivals just for training plans
    Why does every doping thread become "Lance" thread?

    Frank probably was on his way to working with Dr Fuentes. Had OP not happened, Frank would have been "ALL IN" with the good Dr's program. What he is saying is probably true. He didn't do anything wrong, didn't have the chance....bad, or good timing depending how you look at it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bry03cobra
    Why does every doping thread become "Lance" thread?

    Frank probably was on his way to working with Dr Fuentes. Had OP not happened, Frank would have been "ALL IN" with the good Dr's program. What he is saying is probably true. He didn't do anything wrong, didn't have the chance....bad, or good timing depending how you look at it.
    Given that Fuentes was an OB/GYN, I'm sure Schleck was just planning on using him as a fertility consultant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bry03cobra
    Why does every doping thread become "Lance" thread?

    Frank probably was on his way to working with Dr Fuentes. Had OP not happened, Frank would have been "ALL IN" with the good Dr's program. What he is saying is probably true. He didn't do anything wrong, didn't have the chance....bad, or good timing depending how you look at it.
    You really think if a rider wanted to dope he needed Fuentes? You need Fuentes for a full-on blood extraction, replenishment, re-infusion program. Look at all the **** Hamilton was having pumped into him and all the procedures. Going to Fuentes was certainly going "ALL IN", I have a hard time believing that Schleck was going to START doping with that kind of program. Probably had been using cortisone, HGH, EPO, etc. for years and was looking to take it to the next level.

  22. #22
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    Thank god that the old generation (Armstrong, Ullrich, Mancebo, Hamilton, etc.)have been replaced by this new, clean generation of riders!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mohair_chair
    Given that Fuentes was an OB/GYN, I'm sure Schleck was just planning on using him as a fertility consultant.
    Regardless of whether he doped or not he should be suspended as Basso was. IIRC from Basso's case Intent to dope is regarded the same as actually doping. This is probably why he is claiming the money was only for "training advice". At least Ferrari had a background in exercise, does Fuentes have any background in exercise other than being repeatedly linked to doped athletes?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne Barry
    At least Ferrari had a background in exercise, does Fuentes have any background in exercise other than being repeatedly linked to doped athletes?
    I think Chris Carmichael was all booked up at the time. Fuentes was his only option.

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