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  1. #401
    Grateful Ex-Clyde(-90lbs)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddave12000 View Post
    The presenter said that since Salbutamol has become an allowed substance (2013?) there have been 100 instances of riders testing over the limit.
    Is it possible for a number to sound more like the kind of number someone bropes out their butt than to say "100 instances?" Not 98, not 105, but 100. Okay...
    Quote Originally Posted by ddave12000 View Post
    We've only heard of 3 that I'm aware of. Why? Because per the rules, this all stays private until the rider proves his case or doesn't - as in case of Ulissi, etc. If they are proven "valid", which, apparently 97% have been we never hear about it. Unless of course someone leaks it.

    Does any of this absolve Froome? Of course not. However, it does make me slightly more sympathetic to the approach they're taking. While I hesitate to call Froome a "victim" here, it could be that he is a victim of the rules not being applied as they would to other riders in the same situation.
    Of course, there's an as-yet unknowable matter of degrees, here. Even if we accept the fact that 95+% of adverse results are excused, maybe it's because they only glowed a few nanos over the limit, so whatever song-and-dance alibis were given were accepted- and only violations of c. Ulissi-magnitude resulted in serious sanctions. [And to review, Froome's hit doubled up on the allowable maximum.]

    These are the obstacles we all face when we're only allowed to see a near-minimum of the available data concerning this.
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  2. #402
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    “Froome and his team are putting one over on us. The act of riding the Ruta del Sol is an act of self-importance, because they absolutely don't care about the disastrous image that they are presenting of cycling.”

    Guimard: Team Sky don't care about the disastrous image they are presenting of cycling | Cyclingnews.com
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  3. #403
    weird huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I think its inspiring that athletes with debilitating asthma and COPD can somehow rise to the highest level of professional sport
    Don't check in too often...

    I did, locally anyway. Competed at CAT 1 and 2 throughout most of the late 80's, and up to 1998.

    I had severe asthma until I was around 18, when I 'made it go away', by an even more severe lifestyle change. I kept it up for about 15 years, until my body wore down, basically from being on a bike 3-4 hours a day. Every day.

    TL;DR You can compete with real asthma. I had several brands of rescue inhalers, (albuterol, salbuterol, alupent, epinephrine, theolair, tedral, etc.) over the years. I never used them even once "proactively" They were for emergencies. Real emergencies.

    That said... having these in your system after a race, simply means they were taken prior. Can that mean an advantage? If you actually have asthma, prolly no. It's just bringing you up to the playing field. If you don't have asthma, then maybe. Now you're amping up.

    I'd seriously doubt that the amounts founds in Froome's system were beneficial for advantage. Who knows. In my day...we (I) took a lot of 'cures' and remedies that are banned today. Not judging, but the whole " I've asthma, so that's why I've got XXX in my system is suspect.

    Anyway, great discussion and apologies if I resurrected a Zombie Thread.

  4. #404
    The Slow One.
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    I've raced against several people with asthma. Some are worse off than others, so it's obviously across a spectrum. One day they're in the mix, and the next conditions conspire to throw them out of contention. What I've seen is very much like what Katie Compton experiences. Then again, I probably don't see the guys who have a milder variant that can manage the extreme swings more effectively.

    Team Sky's reactionary response to TUEs for GT riders probably caused this, as Fabio Bartalucci mentioned. Instead of pursuing a TUE for a specified dose of a more effective asthma drug, they just pushed the amounts of the specified substance until their boy blew twice the permitted limit. Instead of being open and honest about this, their culture of managerial arrogance is proving to be their downfall.

    It really could have been a much simpler matter if handled differently.

  5. #405
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    Froome in trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    I've raced against several people with asthma. Some are worse off than others, so it's obviously across a spectrum. One day they're in the mix, and the next conditions conspire to throw them out of contention. What I've seen is very much like what Katie Compton experiences. Then again, I probably don't see the guys who have a milder variant that can manage the extreme swings more effectively.

    Team Sky's reactionary response to TUEs for GT riders probably caused this, as Fabio Bartalucci mentioned. Instead of pursuing a TUE for a specified dose of a more effective asthma drug, they just pushed the amounts of the specified substance until their boy blew twice the permitted limit. Instead of being open and honest about this, their culture of managerial arrogance is proving to be their downfall.

    It really could have been a much simpler matter if handled differently.
    Or, Froome was short of breath once, ever, and they want him to use PEDs? It very well could be that simple. They got approved for PEDs and doubled the allowable dosage.




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    Last edited by PBL450; 5 Days Ago at 05:13 PM.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  6. #406
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    Oops, someone forgot to pay off Bartalucci....

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...nd-grey-areas/
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  7. #407
    Trigger Warning
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    He said they used IV recovery while it was still legal.

    "It was a simple 'recup' programme, far less than other teams probably did. It included vitamins, antioxidants and iron when needed. Not all the riders wanted it but it was going to be available. Of course, when the no-needle ban was announced, the IV recovery plan was dropped."

    What else? Is there a Jiffy Bag?

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    nothing surprising about the article. Sky, a scientific team, with 2 medical record systems, suddenly has a paucity in their medical records and a laptop gone missing. But only thanks to the Russians are we able to know about this bs today. Wiggin was quite good at wiggling his way thru the system until the Russians caught him.

  9. #409
    The Slow One.
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    Well, it looks like they're all in. Froome is now playing superdomestique with the outside chance at a win. He's definitely a man being watched by the other GC contenders, which means that even if he isn't the chosen one, he has an out-sized influence on the race.

    Froome's comments show he's entrenched in the Sky spin bubble. "The press is making a big thing about nothing..." and that sort of thing. Really? A GT winner popped at twice the permitted limit for a specified substance is nothing? Interesting. The "fake news" defense has expanded to cycling, it appears.

    I don't envy the position Froome finds himself in with the press at the moment, but it's one his choices led him to. So far the fans and the press have been relatively restrained, which I'm somewhat surprised by. If Froome thinks it's going to get any better the closer the Giro gets, he may have another thing coming. Hopefully the UCI's Anti-Doping Tribunal moves quickly and cleanly so the result can be kicked to CAS for a resolution by the end of the decade.

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