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  1. #1
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    Gaimon accuses Cancellara of motor doping

    Former pro Phil Gaimon accuses Fabian Cancellara of motor doping in new book | Cyclist

    Wow, that's pretty accusatory to put into a book without definitive proof.

    'I dismissed it until I heard his former teammates talk about certain events where Cancellara had his own mechanic, his bike was kept separate from everyone else's, and he rode away from a "who's who" of dopers,' Gaimon writes in his book.

    He continues, 'When you watch the footage, his accelerations don't look natural at all, like he's having trouble staying on the top of the pedals. That ****er probably did have a motor,' the book extract reads.
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

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    It's more accurately stated that Gaimon thinks it's possible, or even likely, but like everyone else, he's only hypothesizing - he has no proof.

  3. #3
    The Slow One.
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    Gaimon has accused Cancellara of multiple forms of doping over the years, so it can be assumed they aren't swapping Christmas cards every year.

    Is it true? I have no idea. Until there's concrete proof, I agree with Gaimon that's it's clickbait.

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    Two professional racers who used their own personal mechanics, not the team mechanics, were Cancellara and Alberto Contador. Alberto used to change bikes often for the big mountain stages he was racing in the grand tours.

  5. #5
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    is there anything worth reading in his book? If his "retirement" youtube videos are any indication, the book will sound like it's written by a school girl about bubble gum.

  6. #6
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    Cancellara is now under official investigation for motor doping in the past

    You read that right.

    The new head of the UCI is launching an official investigation into Cancellara and his motor doping in the past.

    UCI to investigate Gaimon's Cancellara mechanical doping accusations | Cyclingnews.com

    "What I would say regarding the case you are speaking about is that I will try to have more information and we will investigate. We will investigate because we need to know exactly what is behind this. Of course, I heard all the rumors, like everybody, and I just want to know exactly. So we will investigate, that is our job," Lappartient said.

    "At this level, I cannot say more than this, but I hope that this never happened in professional cycling. If this was the case, it would be a disaster for the image of cycling and that's why we have to fight. I want the people and the fans on the road to be able to trust the result, trust the UCI and trust the controls from our institutions."
    And you have to note this as well:

    https://cyclingtips.com/2017/11/hidd...ff-member-uci/

    The previous guy at the UCI who Peraud is replacing has been caught, during the TDF, working with the motor providers to alert them of the police being on to them.


    The UCI is dirty, has been, they're involved, have been, there's plenty of proof.

    The new UCI president is saying that they're going to stop the corruption and actually "do their jobs" by being the police of cycling and investigating and such...

    Do you believe him? So far I don't. Talks a big game though.
    use a torque wrench

  7. #7
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    Be careful what you say about other people absent actual evidence or proof (yes, even on RBR). Defamation, libel, and slander laws are nothing to play with.

    Report: Cancellara demands Gaimon pull book after motor accusation | VeloNews.com
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    Be careful what you say about other people absent actual evidence or proof (yes, even on RBR). Defamation, libel, and slander laws are nothing to play with.

    Report: Cancellara demands Gaimon pull book after motor accusation | VeloNews.com
    I was just going to post this article.

    I thought the comment in Gaimon's book and the quote used in the Cyclist article were a bit risky due to the lack of proof of him using a motor.

    Gaimon is also of the opinion that this was an isolated issue, and stated that current concerns over motor doping in the peloton have been exaggerated.

    'Motors are not a thing, they never were a thing, but my feeling and the prevailing feeling was that it was him [Cancellara] for a couple of races, then when it became half a scandal it was over,' Gaimon told us, before adding, 'Put a gun to my head and I would say that's what happened.'
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

  9. #9
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    Cancellara probably had a motor.

    Said it.

    Do something about it Fabian.
    use a torque wrench

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    Cancelara had one Heck of a motor.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    Do something about it Fabian.
    He went to the olympics, rode 450 watts for over an hour to win a gold medal. Then they pulled his crankset off and found no motor.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaniels View Post
    He went to the olympics, rode 450 watts for over an hour to win a gold medal. Then they pulled his crankset off and found no motor.
    Fair enough.
    use a torque wrench

  13. #13
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    I would assume that he or someone at Specialized (what he rode in 2010) would have those winning bikes on display or something, right? I wonder if it would even be possible to determine if they had been tampered with (i.e. had a motor added). Then again, Cancellara supposedly had several bike changes in Paris-Roubaix, so if there was an actual bike with a motor, it could have been one of several used and after the race, taken away and hidden or destroyed. This is definitely tin foil hat stuff, but I don't put anything past what some athletes will do.

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    I predict Cancellara will sue Giamon (and/or the publisher) for libel if he doesn't pull the book. And Gaimon is gonna have to do it because he won't have the money for a legal defense. Renting out his shack in Big Bear ain't enough funds. And the UCI isn't going to be on Gaimon's side. Anyone wants to bet against this?

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    Gaimon issues a statement

    Phil Gaimon issues statement on Fabian Cancellara motor doping allegation - Cycling Weekly



    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Gaimon
    In “Draft Animals,” I repeated a rumor that’s well-documented and many years old, and I presented it as such. I stand by my opinion, but it’s exactly that, and anyone who actually opened the book would know that what I said was far from an “accusation.”

    Put a gun to my head and that’s what I believe so I’d be a liar if I left it out, but I claim no revelations or proof, so I don’t see it being “taken off the shelves” except by the folks buying it. Ironically, that part in the book is dismissing conspiracy theories about motors today as clickbait, and it’s now been turned into clickbait.

    My friendship with Tom Danielson is a big part of the story, so usually when I get hate mail, it’s calling me a hypocrite for not being enough of a “doper hater.” I didn’t expect this to be pulled out of context or turned into mudslinging, and I’m sorry for anyone who’s wasted time or energy on it. That’s not how I wanted to sell books, and it’s not worth this headache.
    There were some things I had to get off my chest and some tough times to share to give a picture of the sport as I experienced it, but if a juicy tell-all is what you’re looking for, don’t bother buying it. I don’t reference any scandal you haven’t heard before, and I’ll probably show empathy towards dopers that you want me to hate. I expect that type of reader will be disappointed.


    Read more at Phil Gaimon issues statement on Fabian Cancellara motor doping allegation - Cycling Weekly

  16. #16
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    He is still right in a gray area of a fairly complex area of law. Just calling something an opinion doesn't make it such legally speaking. He should honestly consult a good lawyer if he hasn't already:

    Opinion and Fair Comment Privileges | Digital Media Law Project

    An even better explanation:

    Fact vs. Opinion: Setting the Record Straight
    Last edited by Rashadabd; 5 Days Ago at 09:35 AM.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  17. #17
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    let's say this goes to court, then is the onus is on Gaimon to prove that Cancellara's bike had a motor? or is it on Cancellara to prove that his bike had no motor? I'm guessing the onus is on Gaimon? If it is, then hell it's gonna be pretty damn hard to prove because that bike may not even exist anymore.

    and isn't California libel laws tend to make it easy for the plaintiff to sue?

    Either way, I feel that Gaimon is batting out of his league (in terms of legal cost) for what appears to be an attempt to spice up and sell a book.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    let's say this goes to court, then is the onus is on Gaimon to prove that Cancellara's bike had a motor? or is it on Cancellara to prove that his bike had no motor? I'm guessing the onus is on Gaimon? If it is, then hell it's gonna be pretty damn hard to prove because that bike may not even exist anymore.

    and isn't California libel laws tend to make it easy for the plaintiff to sue?

    Either way, I feel that Gaimon is batting out of his league (in terms of legal cost) for what appears to be an attempt to spice up and sell a book.
    Yes, it doesn't appear to help Gaimon that he lives in California (at least I think that's where he lives). Typically, the ultimate burden of proof is on the plaintiff (Cancellara if he elects to go that route here), but the opinion thing is a defense, which means Gaimon would have to establish his statement was truly just a rhetorical opinion and not a defamatory statement disguised as an opinion. Cancellara would obviously argue the opposite. Your last sentence sums up my feelings precisely.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

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    Gaimon published a "well-documented rumor" about a sports star spread by people whose tiny ... egos couldn't stand getting whipped by the clearly superior rider (and he was. Sorry. i'm a fan but even if I hated him I'd have to admit he was like Cavendish in his prime or Sagan now .. . The Best in their metier.)

    Then Gaimon goes to a big cycling mag/site and says "Be sure to notice that even though my book is about everything else .... Cancellara cheated. But that's not clickbait ... go click on it and see."

    Yeah dude, none of us have ever seen a publicity scheme before.

    Good thing that that was a well-documented" rumor. I'd hate it if it was just a rumor of a rumor.

  20. #20
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    Ah, come on, pro cyclists cheating? It is very rare and only the occassional abberation like Armstrong cheats.



  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    Yes, it doesn't appear to help Gaimon that he lives in California (at least I think that's where he lives). Typically, the ultimate burden of proof is on the plaintiff (Cancellara if he elects to go that route here), but the opinion thing is a defense, which means Gaimon would have to establish his statement was truly just a rhetorical opinion and not a defamatory statement disguised as an opinion. Cancellara would obviously argue the opposite. Your last sentence sums up my feelings precisely.
    to my knowledge, he lives in Socal, has a Phil Fondo based right here in LA. He has his youtube channel in which he dedicates great production efforts in taking down all the popular KOMs, and wants his followers to know about what he's doing, likes to a lot of attentions from the local bro's. Sounds a tad like a narcissist to me, not full tilt, but definitely attention getter. Then goes on to "opined" about Cancelllara cheating without any solid evidence. Gaimon sounds a little insecure IMO, no make that very insecure.

    Gaimon like to say he hates dopers, yet he's friends with a lot of them. Ok fine. But then there are plenty of dopers or questionable dopers that he could have "opined" in his book to which material evidence does exist. For example, he could have made a big stink about questioning Wiggins' use to TUE to get injection of asthma drugs one week before the Tour 2012; that would have clear evidence to back it up after the Russian hacking. Yet he chooses to question Cancellara, but not Ryder Hjesdal's bike?

    Sounds to me like Gaimon has a beef with Cancellara? Maybe Cancellara rubbed him the wrong way, and now it was an opportunity to take a jab at Cancellara while helping himself to sell some books? Either way, it looks like a total opportunistic move on his part.

    I'm not sure of the laws, but it doesn't make sense to me that Cancellara has to prove he's innocent. It's like if someone accuses you of cheating on your wife, then somehow it's on your to prove that you didn't cheat on her? Makes no sense on the burden of proof. Regardless, don't think it's hard for Cancellara to prove his innocence though. All he has to do is bring his mechanic who handled his bike and have him said "there was no motor", end of story? And what if Cancellara to counter-sue, which will most likely gonna happen if this goes to court? Will Gaimon be even have the financial to withstand such a hit? Or will be be broke and move back with his parents? And what lawyers in LA is gonna even take on his case if he has little financial to fork out up front? Makes no sense for Gaimon to go around yabbing his mouth like this. I'm not saying that Cancellara is innocent or guilty at this point, I'm merely bringing up all the factors at play and the decisions Gaimon seems to be heading. Makes very little sense.

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    Gaimon comes across as a low level psychopath. Beyond narcissism.

    Goes all out to convince a band of followers that he's a 'good guy'. Once that's established he can attack his random figures of hate. That's ok because Phil is a good guy. Must be something to it.

    If Ted bundy had a world class vo2max and a stable upbringing I could imagine him writing one of Phil's books.

    Don't fall for his shtick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlosflanders View Post
    If Ted bundy had a world class vo2max and a stable upbringing I could imagine him writing one of Phil's books.
    Man, that's cold ....

    made me chuckle.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    to my knowledge, he lives in Socal, has a Phil Fondo based right here in LA. He has his youtube channel in which he dedicates great production efforts in taking down all the popular KOMs, and wants his followers to know about what he's doing, likes to a lot of attentions from the local bro's. Sounds a tad like a narcissist to me, not full tilt, but definitely attention getter. Then goes on to "opined" about Cancelllara cheating without any solid evidence. Gaimon sounds a little insecure IMO, no make that very insecure.

    Gaimon like to say he hates dopers, yet he's friends with a lot of them. Ok fine. But then there are plenty of dopers or questionable dopers that he could have "opined" in his book to which material evidence does exist. For example, he could have made a big stink about questioning Wiggins' use to TUE to get injection of asthma drugs one week before the Tour 2012; that would have clear evidence to back it up after the Russian hacking. Yet he chooses to question Cancellara, but not Ryder Hjesdal's bike?

    Sounds to me like Gaimon has a beef with Cancellara? Maybe Cancellara rubbed him the wrong way, and now it was an opportunity to take a jab at Cancellara while helping himself to sell some books? Either way, it looks like a total opportunistic move on his part.

    I'm not sure of the laws, but it doesn't make sense to me that Cancellara has to prove he's innocent. It's like if someone accuses you of cheating on your wife, then somehow it's on your to prove that you didn't cheat on her? Makes no sense on the burden of proof. Regardless, don't think it's hard for Cancellara to prove his innocence though. All he has to do is bring his mechanic who handled his bike and have him said "there was no motor", end of story? And what if Cancellara to counter-sue, which will most likely gonna happen if this goes to court? Will Gaimon be even have the financial to withstand such a hit? Or will be be broke and move back with his parents? And what lawyers in LA is gonna even take on his case if he has little financial to fork out up front? Makes no sense for Gaimon to go around yabbing his mouth like this. I'm not saying that Cancellara is innocent or guilty at this point, I'm merely bringing up all the factors at play and the decisions Gaimon seems to be heading. Makes very little sense.
    It's because he is the one alleging he has been "defamed." See below:

    "Generally, in a defamation case in which the comments are directed about a “private person", the Plaintiff must prove that the Defendant made a false statement of fact, that the [Defendant] was without any legal privilege to make the statement or exceeded the privilege, that the statement caused actual damages, and that the statement was made at least with negligence (recklessness or intentional malice may also be shown but are not necessary in proving defamation against a private person).

    The negligence must be proven by a “preponderance of the evidence" (sort of like saying 51/49; enough to tilt the scales). As noted, there is no requirement that the Plaintiff prove any intent to harm (actual malice) or even recklessness."

    And....

    "The second form of defamation is that which involves statements about a “public figure" (i.e. a politician or entertainment celebrity). The elements of proving a false statement of fact are the same but there are certain differences. In a public figure case, the Plaintiff must prove actual damages. Also, the Plaintiff must prove malice; either that the Defendant made the false statement with the intent to injure or with a reckless disregard for the truth of the statement.

    Also, the level of proof necessary for the public figure Plaintiff to prove malice is much higher than the level of proof necessary for the private person Plaintiff to prove at least negligence. In public figure cases, the proof of malice in most states is by "clear and convincing evidence" (i.e. more than a preponderance but less than the criminal burden of “beyond a reasonable doubt"). Thus, in public figure cases, the public figure who claims defamation must prove much more because they are viewed as fair game for public comment. "

    The process of sorting it all out is still a costly proposition and not worth it unless your book is bringing in some serious $$$$$.
    Last edited by Rashadabd; 4 Days Ago at 08:10 AM.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  25. #25
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    It sounds like Wiggins might be planning a defamation suit of his own....

    Bradley Wiggins: UKAD investigation felt like a witch hunt | Cyclingnews.com
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

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