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  1. #1
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    Johan Museeuw, Drug Kingpin?

    It looks like they have filed charges Johan Museeuw:

    http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/8991.0.html

    He possessed 2000 doses of EPO. I guess he was supplying a lot of riders with banned substances. I wonder if there will be any other big names implicated in this?

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    An average dose of EPO is 2000 to 4000 units so Museeuw had enough for a small dose - hardly a 'Drug Kingpin'.

    Personally, I suspect a cycling news smokescreen to prove that all Europeans are dirty dopers and Saint Lance is clean as clean can be (what Equipe article?)...

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    Not like you have an agenda or anything....

    It's not just cycling news; this is national news in Belgium, all over the newspapers, I suppose they are in on it too? Plus the Belgian courts and prosecutors; all part of a big scheme to divert attention away from Armstrong?

    Read the transcripts of the phone calls, look at the stuff that was found at his house, this is news that anyone who follows professional cycling should be reading.

    Another one bites the dust.

  4. #4
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    what is a unit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirl
    An average dose of EPO is 2000 to 4000 units so Museeuw had enough for a small dose - hardly a 'Drug Kingpin'.

    Personally, I suspect a cycling news smokescreen to prove that all Europeans are dirty dopers and Saint Lance is clean as clean can be (what Equipe article?)...
    What is a unit? 2000 to 4000, you mean DOUBLE a dose?

    Where did you obtain what an average dose of EPO was?

    Do you provide EPO injections and hence know what that means?

    Otherwise, I guess, mind you its a guess, why would he have it at all????? To cheat. Hey, there you go......Or, waut, he has a small case of cancer and was feeling sluggiash and hence, carries a "small dose" of EPO to keep him up......
    This old anvil has cracked alot of hammers

  5. #5
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    And will the same people who assume Lance is a doper because of his involvement with Ferrari apply the same logic to Boonen since he moved teams to learn from Johan? Doubt it: they'll probably be wearing their hypocrit hats.

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    saddens me

    Johann is going to (to me he's already gone over) the credibilty gap. 2 busts now and connections to distribution rings. he's completely tarnished his legacy IMHO which is sad as he was one of my faves. he shoulda kept his nose clean and his reputation intact. smoke screen, yer freakin' kidding me. you convict LA on allegations yet defend folks busted red handed. I'm no LA homer, I prefer the classics but this level of bias is saddening. It's huge news in Belgium, and after all this is the land where Pot Belfe was born. they know their doping. Mario, Mario, what now another book? Man again another of my cx faves slipping from my list.
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirl
    An average dose of EPO is 2000 to 4000 units so Museeuw had enough for a small dose - hardly a 'Drug Kingpin'.

    Personally, I suspect a cycling news smokescreen to prove that all Europeans are dirty dopers and Saint Lance is clean as clean can be (what Equipe article?)...
    Sorry I confused doses with units, but he was alegedly the leader in a ring that involved with 8 other riders, a world cyclocross champion and a vetrinarian in distributing the banned substances to other cyclists. THat is close to a kingpin in the cycling world.

    As for a Smokescreen, that would be right up there with the one that got OJ off ten years ago today. It would involve the police, proscecutors and the media working hand in hand to frame an innocent man. Besides, most of they cycling press would love to be the one who finds a smoking gun that would prove Lance was dirty.

    This is a big story because it involves some big names, and if one of the other 8 cyclists in the distribution ring talk, we could see others have their careers brought into question. So this story could get a lot bigger.
    Last edited by Alpedhuez55; 10-03-2005 at 08:41 AM. Reason: typo

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie
    Johann is going to (to me he's already gone over) the credibilty gap. 2 busts now and connections to distribution rings. he's completely tarnished his legacy IMHO which is sad as he was one of my faves. he shoulda kept his nose clean and his reputation intact. smoke screen, yer freakin' kidding me. you convict LA on allegations yet defend folks busted red handed. I'm no LA homer, I prefer the classics but this level of bias is saddening. It's huge news in Belgium, and after all this is the land where Pot Belfe was born. they know their doping. Mario, Mario, what now another book? Man again another of my cx faves slipping from my list.
    I'm with you on this one: this saddens me as I prefer the classics as well, this is also huge news in Holland. One of my favorite images of all time is Johan, with his tonque out riding to the P-R win in 2002? A beautiful display of power and determination.

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    A beautiful display of power and determination.


    ...or a beautiful display of an artificially raised haematocrit, steroid influenced muscle growth, bronchodilated airways, cardiac stimulation......

    You decide.

    My heart is already broken.

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    More irony; the Lion of Flanders and a veterinarian? Apt at least.

  11. #11
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    Thumbs down did Velonews post that horrible picture on purpose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpedhuez55
    It looks like they have filed charges Johan Museeuw:

    http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/8991.0.html

    He possessed 2000 doses of EPO. I guess he was supplying a lot of riders with banned substances. I wonder if there will be any other big names implicated in this?

    can you say "Hair club for men"?

    In any event, there's a handful of cyclists that I consider as icons of the sport. I hope and prey that they won't be exposed as cheaters. Unfortunately, he was one of them.


    I hope his toupee gets caught between his spokes
    are you having fun?...

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    so sorry, forgot that nobody on this forum recognises sarcasm - guess I shoudl use tags...

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    I'm sure you were one of those complaining about all the coverage Armstrong got, whether on the bike or off, but when it suits you can trot it out and claim 'I was being sarcastic'. Nice one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by giovanni sartori
    And will the same people who assume Lance is a doper because of his involvement with Ferrari apply the same logic to Boonen since he moved teams to learn from Johan? Doubt it: they'll probably be wearing their hypocrit hats.
    Of course Boonen is a doper, that same soigneur who was always there to wipe the mud and sweat off of Museeuw is now with Boonen, that is the smoking gun

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    I don't get it. How could anyone think Museeuw was riding clean? Christ, he was dominating the classics at the height of the EPO era. Same with super Mario, best cross rider of the era. I can't believe anyone would think less of them just because they were caught, I mean do you know how much better they would have had to have been if they were actually the most dominant riders in their respective disciplines if they were actually riding clean versus the vast majority of riders that were doping with EPO?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne Barry
    I don't get it. How could anyone think Museeuw was riding clean? Christ, he was dominating the classics at the height of the EPO era. Same with super Mario, best cross rider of the era. I can't believe anyone would think less of them just because they were caught, I mean do you know how much better they would have had to have been if they were actually the most dominant riders in their respective disciplines if they were actually riding clean versus the vast majority of riders that were doping with EPO?
    Dwayne, this is a perfect example of the american vs. european attitude about doping. Here in the states, it's practically a religious matter. That athlete has sinned and no amount of repenting works. That is also why we defend our heroes so strongly, any admission of guilt and they are ruined. This comes with the denial that a lot of the athletes are doping, as this would be too big of a shock for us to take.

    The attitude on the continent is generally that doping is wrong, but if everyone is doing it and not many get caught, then it's not really a big deal or a big surprise.

    Compare the attitudes about drugs in both places. Here in the states we've been fighting the war on drugs with harsh penalties for users, while on the continent they've been focused on decriminalizing in a lot of countries.

    My opinion is that these guys are all on EPO, but do small enough quantities and have the system beat. And my attitude is, that it's clearly part of the job in becoming a top pro in europe, so we shouldn't hold it against these guys. We should fight to combat this all in the future though, which is rarely a part of the discussion on these forums, as people are more concerned with placing the blame far away from their heroes and instead onto someone's elses hero.

    Silas

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    Silas - that was one of the more intelligent posts I've read on this forum - and probably what I would have tried to say if I didn't get so sarcastic about the very attitudes you post about...

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    I'm sorry, my attitude seems to be out of step. As someone who lives in Europe, and has raced in Europe, I see no difference in attitude from place to place. The complacency offered by Bianchi girl and others is all very well if we are talking about the odd caffeine tablet, the use of inhalers and so on.

    Go search on the net for the names of those cyclists who have died from drug abuse. Try explaining it away to the parents of those riders. Look at the Dutch and Belgian cyclists who died in the 90s, some as young as 16. These are the guys who mythologise the exploits of Museeuw et al, who think it's cool, who are only interested in winning, who don't think of life after cycling.

    Read their names. Recognise that each one is a life lost. Recognise that each one leaves a mother wondering why.

    Read their names, then think about the way your casual acceptance of drug abuse, your 'well, they need to because they are pros' BS contributes to the waste.

    I have ridden in races where the winner doesn't talk afterwards; just stares straight ahead.
    I have ridden in races where the same guys sit on the front at 35 mph.

    'We shouldn't hold it against these guys'.

    Yes we should. We should hold it against everyone who contributes, from riders to fans.

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    I disagree

    in American Pro Sports dopers get a slap on the hand. Europe seems to be approaching it (in sport) far more seriously. In America we worry about recreational drug use, but support sports riddled with doping. sad.
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by olr1
    I'm sorry, my attitude seems to be out of step. As someone who lives in Europe, and has raced in Europe, I see no difference in attitude from place to place. The complacency offered by Bianchi girl and others is all very well if we are talking about the odd caffeine tablet, the use of inhalers and so on.

    Go search on the net for the names of those cyclists who have died from drug abuse. Try explaining it away to the parents of those riders. Look at the Dutch and Belgian cyclists who died in the 90s, some as young as 16. These are the guys who mythologise the exploits of Museeuw et al, who think it's cool, who are only interested in winning, who don't think of life after cycling.

    Read their names. Recognise that each one is a life lost. Recognise that each one leaves a mother wondering why.

    Read their names, then think about the way your casual acceptance of drug abuse, your 'well, they need to because they are pros' BS contributes to the waste.

    I have ridden in races where the winner doesn't talk afterwards; just stares straight ahead.
    I have ridden in races where the same guys sit on the front at 35 mph.

    'We shouldn't hold it against these guys'.

    Yes we should. We should hold it against everyone who contributes, from riders to fans.
    I agree with you, it's all BS and should come to an end. Like I said, I don't particularly blame Johan for doping anymore than I blame Lance. They've fallen to temptation. Well, that's a pretty normal part of human life. I don't accept drug abuse as normal, but it the context of being a top pro biker in the 90s, I accept it as normal.

    As to people who have been killed, it's terrible. Once again, the level of discourse in discrediting the tests, painting it as some kind of national scam or whatever has nothing to do with stopping doping. I don't really understand the politics within WADA or the UCI and I will probably never make any difference in the fight against doping. I hope people do though.

    I never said complacency, I said they wouldn't see it as a big deal or a big surprise. Maybe the way americans feel when they hear of murder on their local news. Compare that to murder in the netherlands, it would be a national story!

    I guess my point is that the system is broken. Does that make Johan, Lance, Pantani or whomever a villain? I don't think so, their failures to make moral decisions only makes them more human.

    Silas

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    I agree with you that the placing of blame is used to credit or discredit various fan-agendas, but I cannot adopt the same attitude as you towards the nature of these top riders who dope. Yes the system is rotten, but that state of affairs will continue as long as riders like Museeuw, Virenque, perhaps Armstrong, are allowed any leeway.
    As someone older, I can see the pitfalls, I can see that a career based on drug abuse is empty. The problem arises when people cannot see through the glamour, the ceremony, and adopt stars as heroes.

    Young lads will die if Museeuw is allowed to get away with this. That is the bottom line.

  22. #22
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    .....
    Last edited by rogger; 08-10-2011 at 10:37 AM.
    Originally posted by thatsmybush:
    I can only speak for my self, but if Fergie wanted to rub her lovely lady lumps on me, I could play the role of "human stripper pole."

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    olr, I agree with you about the scourge of doping in the sport. But, who will carry the can in this case? I've already read that they don't feel they have enough on Museeuw and he'll probably be acquitted. So de Clerq will carry the can because the big 'heroes' of the sport can't be allowed to fall - just as Armstrong gets a free pass because he's retired/it's old news/test is flawed/it would be bad for the sport...

    I agree that we, as fans, are complicit in doping as long as we turn up and tune in and read websites that embrace the spectacle. But the sponsors are complicit, too - while ever they continue to protect their big investments, their cash cows, at the expense of honesty and transparency in the sport then there is no hope. And the UCI continue to turn a blind eye - instead of proactively funding testing for such substances as Aranesp, Hgh and Igf they are busy getting everyone to sign up to a phoney 'ethics code' and getting embroiled in a war of words over an affair that makes them look very much as if they will bend over backwards to protect the big names rather than getting to the root of why their testing doesn't seem to work.

    Instead, we see a parade of lesser names taking the fall with the odd sacrificial lamb who was stupid enough to get caught - Virenque, Hamilton etc. The sport is riddled with it and though I, for one, would love to see a clean sport (why I'm happier watching a little local race than a GT - at least I feel I'm getting the real deal) it seems that, whilever it suits those at the top to protect their image and investments, that will never happen.

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    BG - Excellent Post. That is the frame I've seen all your posts in, probably why I don't find your sarcasm about the issue to be offensive.

    I think that most serious cycling fans care about doping, but we have no say in what is done about it. The UCI controls it, and our only option is to not watch the races they put on. I don't think I'm that devoted!

    Silas

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    While many are mentioning the Museeuw and Boonen connection - which certainly smells fishy. Not many are mentioning that Jonathon Page was taken under the wing of Mario De Clerc in order to learn from the master (paraphrasing a statement used to describe the relationship). Considering the documents that show extensive use of EPO by Mario, questions should be asked as to whether Page's rise to the top of cyclocross is fueled by more than hardwork.

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