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  1. #1
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    Race director abt Lance at Superfrog Tri

    I was ready for some negative stuff and I've gotten it, but it's not even been worth paying attention to, race director Mitch Hall told Patch.

    He told U-T San Diego. I think people have made their minds up whether Lance doped or not.

    We just want Lance the philanthropist, Lance of Livestrong and that matches up with what we want to do.

    There have been many comments on other threads about Lance continuing on as an athlete vs. being banned from EVERYTHING. What Mitch is saying will most likely become a canned response for all race promoters seeking to have Lance attend and compete.Lance won the Superfrog today fwiw...
    Last edited by rydbyk; 10-01-2012 at 06:49 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    I was ready for some negative stuff and I've gotten it, but it's not even been worth paying attention to, race director Mitch Hall told Patch.

    He told U-T San Diego. I think people have made their minds up whether Lance doped or not.

    We just want Lance the philanthropist, Lance of Livestrong and that matches up with what we want to do.

    There have been many comments on other threads about Lance continuing on as an athlete vs. being banned from EVERYTHING. What Mitch is saying will most likely become a canned response for all race promoters seeking to have Lance attend and compete.

    Lance won the Superfrog today fwiw...
    You forgot this part of the UT article

    Its not how I see the sport, said Paulo Sousa, a San Diego-based pro triathlon coach originally from Portugal. I dont want triathlon to turn into a refuge for dopers, a fringe sport where you end up when youre banned from other sports. I feel clean sport is a duty for every stakeholder in the sport.

    These race directors are just like: I dont care about the bigger picture of the sport. I want Lance here. I want the celebrity and the exposure. Superfrog is the oldest Half Ironman in the world. This race is a like a symbol for triathlon, and the symbol is that we want Lance here when the rest of the (sports) world doesnt want him.
    After USADA releases their evidence, and the UCI makes a mess of it, and the Qui Tam goes forward I doubt that there will be many promoters who will see him as an asset

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    Lance won the Superfrog today fwiw...
    Seven Tours de France and the Superfrog?!?!?!?!?!?

    He must be doping.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pretender View Post
    Seven Tours de France and the Superfrog?!?!?!?!?!?

    He must be doping.

  5. #5
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    I would be more shocked if he didnt win since he is a doper.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by gh1 View Post
    I would be more shocked if he didnt win since he is a doper.
    +1
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  7. #7
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    USAT no longer req'd to do a tri?

    What perturbs me is that tri race directors are willing to eliminate the requirement that the athletes have a USAT license to race in their tri. Per this article, they see the enrollment up the minute the athletes hear "Lance will be there".

    "But when presented with a recent race request from Armstrong, Half Full for this year decided to sacrifice its USAT certification. And it paid off. After announcing last Thursday that Armstrong would participate in the Oct. 7 race, enrollment jumped 20%, said race executive Brian Satola."

    Triathlons Part Waters for Lance Armstrong - WSJ.com

  8. #8
    Iohannes fac totum
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    Quote Originally Posted by eekase View Post
    "But when presented with a recent race request from Armstrong, Half Full for this year decided to sacrifice its USAT certification. And it paid off. After announcing last Thursday that Armstrong would participate in the Oct. 7 race, enrollment jumped 20%, said race executive Brian Satola."

    Triathlons Part Waters for Lance Armstrong - WSJ.com
    Sounds like a significant increase. Pretty hard to deny that fact.

  9. #9
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    Here's how I see the "Lance effect".

    Right now, LA has just been banned. The UCI has not run their full course yet. Many LA diehard fans still rally around him as in their mind this is their attempt to support LA, paint LA as a martyr, and paint the USADA as the evil empire. No doubt many these participants in these tri events are doing it to show solidarity with LA.

    But if history is an indicator, this sort of support will almost never last. Soon, people will get back to their daily lives, they will no longer care for LA, and LA will slow fade into obscurity. Just look at ALL the celebrities around us, who have peaked, then did something wrong, and then fade out. The fall from grace will happen.

    This LA effect reminds me of the time of the dotcom boom-bust. When these internet stocks initially started to tumble, you have many big names in the financial world, from Merrill, to Goldman.. coming to rally around these stocks. Oh they tried.. and it worked for a period.. but then Nature would run her course... and now most of these stocks and their once famouse cheerleaders are nothing but a memory. LA and his supporters will no doubt in my mind head down this path.

  10. #10
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    I'm skeptical. Armstrong has come up with a near fool proof means of keeping himself in the public eye as a do-gooder. If it was calculated, it was brilliant if not, incredibly fortuitous.

  11. #11
    Iohannes fac totum
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    But if history is an indicator, this sort of support will almost never last. Soon, people will get back to their daily lives, they will no longer care for LA, and LA will slow fade into obscurity. Just look at ALL the celebrities around us, who have peaked, then did something wrong, and then fade out. The fall from grace will happen.


    I don't know. I think Bill Clinton is still doing OK after his debacle.

  12. #12
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    And Mike Tyson has cameos in movies, despite being an ear-biting rapist.



    Armstrong isn't going to race forever. Even if some events change the rules for now, it should not irreparably alter the sport.

    My understanding is that only a portion of triathletes are going for points or trying to gain entry to Kona. They care if an event is USAT. The rest of triathletes are going for PR and a sense of accomplishment. For those who fall into the latter group, what difference does it make if an event is USAT?

    Non-USAT tris will still matter to as practice races or tune-ups for those triathletes who are trying to get points or get to Kona.

    I would be interested in seeing some USAT, slowtwitch, or triathlon magazine surveys: How many triathletes do just one race a year, how far they travel, how many races per year on average, why they race, etc. If the majority of triathletes travel less than two hours and do just one race a year it wont really matter if an event is USAT.

    Of course, the proof is in the puddling: When Armstrong shows up the numbers go up.

  13. #13
    Iohannes fac totum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris-X View Post
    You ask what it matters? To you it doesn't matter, fair enough. To others it's a matter of perception which I won't detail because I just don't feel like it now.

    However, books have been written on the differences which you believe to be irrelevant..What can one say?

    To someone who doesn't watch football, or very little of it, what's the difference between the NFL and USFL? Does it matter?
    1) It doesn't matter to most triathletes. A huge majority aren't going for world rankings. It's not a perception, it is wha it is. Very few triathletes, and especially newbie triathletes, look at the schedule to find USAT races. It's nothing like road racing where even amateur racers are looking for USAC races to get upgrade points. In addition, road racers typically race LOTS in a year. This isn't the case with Tri's. They are very expensive and time consuming.

    2) What books are you talking about??

    3) The NFL analgoy is really hard to use. I see no similarities. The scale and scope of the NFL for one puts it in a whole different category from triathlons. Most people WATCH the NFL. We are simply viewers being entertained by a bunch of doped up athletes. Most people interested in Tri's will actually be able to do Tri's. It is one of those sports where you can actually get up and personal with the pros, like Lance. You don't get the kind of intermingling in the NFL. So to someone who doesn't WATCH (on TV) football, the only difference between USFL and the NFL would be quality of play. IF you were a player, it would be drastically different. In triathlons, most people are the "players" and not the spectators.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    But if history is an indicator, this sort of support will almost never last. Soon, people will get back to their daily lives, they will no longer care for LA, and LA will slow fade into obscurity.

    People said that at the end of 2005.

  15. #15
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    When the full story comes out, public support will begin to fade.

    Most folks here in the US don't know of any other cyclist. Maybe 1 person out of 10 outside cycling realize that Greg LeMond was also an American and won multiple TdFs. OK, maybe 3 out of 10 at most. To them, Lance is the greatest American cyclist and "the French" have been trying to torpedo him since his first one. Honestly, it's like every European rider is French to a lot of casual sports fans. I moderate on some other websites with sports forums, and this is a very common attitude among them. Americans love fairness and level playing fields above all else, both in sports and in everyday life. To most people, Lance beat "the French" at their own doped up game on a level playing field. If it comes out that he not only bought his way out of dirty tests, but also used his influence to sandbag other riders, that will really alter the public's perception of him.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpre53 View Post
    When the full story comes out, public support will begin to fade.

    Most folks here in the US don't know of any other cyclist. Maybe 1 person out of 10 outside cycling realize that Greg LeMond was also an American and won multiple TdFs. OK, maybe 3 out of 10 at most. To them, Lance is the greatest American cyclist and "the French" have been trying to torpedo him since his first one. Honestly, it's like every European rider is French to a lot of casual sports fans. I moderate on some other websites with sports forums, and this is a very common attitude among them. Americans love fairness and level playing fields above all else, both in sports and in everyday life. To most people, Lance beat "the French" at their own doped up game on a level playing field. If it comes out that he not only bought his way out of dirty tests, but also used his influence to sandbag other riders, that will really alter the public's perception of him.
    Very true. This info will have to be revealed on a 60 Minutes special sorta thing to make it become fairly well known to the general public. A small article here and a small article there will do nothing to inform Americans. Even the cover of SI showing a "Disgraced Lance" wouldn't do it.

    The TH 60 Minutes special was watched nationwide and I would suspect got a lot of people to raise their eyebrows at least. ANOTHER 60 Minutes explaining HOW LA went about doing what you alluded to above in red would be very damaging imo..

    Like I mentioned before, it is odd, but it really boils down to HOW he went about his cheating vs. the rest of the peleton that were cheating. Funny how that matters, but I guess it is sort of a game changer...

  17. #17
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    Many people overestimate the public's desire to hear the full story. What story do people like more, a disgraced hero or a comeback from adversity?

    I tried to illustrate it in my cocktail party mock dialogue earlier. If two people are talking neutrally about Armstrong and a third jumps in full of outspoken energy, dropping sordid details and the names of guilty parties...well that person is going to be seen as a fanatic proselytizer. In our culture, it's often poor taste to appear too passionate or outspoken about a controversial subject.

    People just don't want to hear about needles in arms.

    So I don't buy it when people repeatedly speak of how the other shoe is about to drop and Armstrong will finally hit bottom. He's been banned by USADA. Half the time people say that he was stripped of his victories, half the time we hear that he wasn't. Some people repeat the narrative that it was a vendetta. Some think it's just deserts. The Secret Race is out...How much more will public opinion change after the UCI makes a ruling?

    I don't think it's going to have a major impact.

    On that we can agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Local Hero; 10-02-2012 at 12:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 88 rex View Post
    I don't know. I think Bill Clinton is still doing OK after his debacle.
    Bill admitted his guilt, apologized to his family and the country. Wrote a book about the pain he caused his family, friends, and staff.

    Do you think we will ever see the same from Lance?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris-X View Post
    Your Tyson analogy is not on point as it's generally acknowledged that he's an ear biting rapist who is somewhat repentent.

    Armstrong is unrepentent.

    You ask what it matters? To you it doesn't matter, fair enough. To others it's a matter of perception which I won't detail because I just don't feel like it now.

    However, books have been written on the differences which you believe to be irrelevant..What can one say?

    To someone who doesn't watch football, or very little of it, what's the difference between the NFL and USFL? Does it matter?
    Something tells me that if you asked Tyson if he raped that girl he would come up with something like I never tested positive. Not a denial, but not an admission of guilt.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti View Post
    Bill admitted his guilt, apologized to his family and the country. Wrote a book about the pain he caused his family, friends, and staff.

    Do you think we will ever see the same from Lance?
    He wrote a book about the pain it caused his family and made tens of millions of $ on it to square up with Hilary. No matter how much $ LA stands to lose from people who will claim fraud against them, all of you will still buy his book if he needs the cash. Don't kid yourself all of you will.
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  21. #21
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    Don't kid yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by SicBith View Post
    Don't kid yourself all of you will.
    I have never bought any Liestrong merchandise, or any Nike product since the early 90s. Having been looked after by Brooks for many years, I never had the need to pay any attention (or $$$) to the dreaded swoosh.
    2011 Orbea Orca
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    Quote Originally Posted by SicBith View Post
    all of you will still buy his book if he needs the cash. Don't kid yourself all of you will.
    Given the number of Hamilton comments as of late, you are right.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by C6Rider View Post
    I have never bought any Liestrong merchandise, or any Nike product since the early 90s. Having been looked after by Brooks for many years, I never had the need to pay any attention (or $$$) to the dreaded swoosh.
    Hey !!1!









    It's Pharmstrong !!
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by C6Rider View Post
    I have never bought any Liestrong merchandise, or any Nike product since the early 90s. Having been looked after by Brooks for many years, I never had the need to pay any attention (or $$$) to the dreaded swoosh.
    Me either. And we don't buy Trek here either.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by C6Rider View Post
    I have never bought any Liestrong merchandise, or any Nike product since the early 90s. Having been looked after by Brooks for many years, I never had the need to pay any attention (or $$$) to the dreaded swoosh.
    Glad Brooks is giving you the hook. I'm sure you're an awesome runner, but this has nothing to do with Livestrong or Nike.
    I was talking about the tell all book which he will write if he needs the money. And we will all buy it.
    Set=DbOg

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