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  1. #1
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    So, Geraint Thomas is the best climber in the pro peloton.

    Discuss.

    Explain.
    Eff the King's Guard. Eff the city. Eff the King.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Discuss.

    Explain.
    I'd say he has been the best GC climber so far in week two. The GC contenders say the Pyrenees climbs in week 3 have different profiles than the Alps.

  3. #3
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    I don't get it either...
    ďWell, the bike racer is not that ferocious to look at, and lets face it, skeletal level of skinniness, also, the clothing is pretty oddĒ
    Bob Roll Ė 2011 Tour de France

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    Quote Originally Posted by ngl View Post
    I'd say he has been the best GC climber so far in week two. The GC contenders say the Pyrenees climbs in week 3 have different profiles than the Alps.
    And they'll still get dropped by Sky.
    Eff the King's Guard. Eff the city. Eff the King.

  5. #5
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    He didn't ride the Giro.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    He didn't ride the Giro.
    Neither did Quintana, Uran, Barguil, Nibali, Yates, Landa, Atapuma, Majka, Rolland, Zakarin, Martin, Kruiswijck, Roglic, Mollema or any of the other supposed climbers or GC men in the race.


    But Geraint Thomas is dropping them all in the mountains. Geraint Thomas.

    Explain.
    Eff the King's Guard. Eff the city. Eff the King.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Neither did Quintana, Uran, Barguil, Nibali, Yates, Landa, Atapuma, Majka, Rolland, Zakarin, Martin, Kruiswijck, Roglic, Mollema or any of the other supposed climbers or GC men in the race.


    But Geraint Thomas is dropping them all in the mountains. Geraint Thomas.

    Explain.
    I was just comparing him to the 2 guys inside 2 minutes. That could be making a difference atop the leader board. Iím not concerned with explaining anything. Heís a damn good GC rider. Easily top 10 or top 5 on his own. Heís shoulder to shoulder with world tour winners. Heís riding his first of the year, they arenít. That is all.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    I was just comparing him to the 2 guys inside 2 minutes. That could be making a difference atop the leader board. Iím not concerned with explaining anything. Heís a damn good GC rider. Easily top 10 or top 5 on his own. Heís shoulder to shoulder with world tour winners. Heís riding his first of the year, they arenít. That is all.
    I agree but it is worth noting that Dumoulin, who did ride the Giro and relatively has come from nowhere in the last couple of years, is keeping pace with Thomas on the climbs so far.

    Sagan finished 4th yesterday on a very difficult climb and dropped many highly regarded climbers. That seems to be attracting little attention

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldash View Post
    I agree but it is worth noting that Dumoulin, who did ride the Giro and relatively has come from nowhere in the last couple of years, is keeping pace with Thomas on the climbs so far.

    Sagan finished 4th yesterday on a very difficult climb and dropped many highly regarded climbers. That seems to be attracting little attention
    I hear you, Iím not on the doping train, I mean Sky has Thomas and Kwaito as domestiques and they have Bernal coming up, I mean geez. These are team leaders (and future leader) on like half the teams in the tour! Yeah, Tommy is climbing like a GC guy alright... I thought he was a good bit bigger than those guys but heís not really, they go 154-157 the top 3... Sagan, I think he suffers more from the length of a climb than the grade, sort of, I mean heís not overtaking GC Guys at 13% but he stayed pretty fresh, didnít use up any unessary gas approaching the final steep climb and then he had a brief downhill run to make up time. I think his Spring results are relatively consistent with that kind of capacity. On Alp DíHuez he gets shelled off the back.

    Tommy D may be the best GC Guy there but having no support ensures heís pulling a bowling ball up with him compared to a Sky leader...
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

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    Thomas had better see to it he still has a minute and a half on Tom before the ITT.

    Oh this race is still got some excitement left, a lot of uncertainty to be resolved. very nice entertainment for us. Just sad to be missing Nibali
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    Thomas had better see to it he still has a minute and a half on Tom before the ITT.

    Oh this race is still got some excitement left, a lot of uncertainty to be resolved. very nice entertainment for us. Just sad to be missing Nibali
    Totally agree, and personally I can't wait for stage 17 this coming week and really hoping Sky is put to the test by at least a couple of teams. Maybe Roglic and Landa will team up. (One can only hope )
    Thomas is riding great, and ultimately I hope he finishes ahead of Froomey, but with Nibali gone I'm in for Dumoulin.
    I really think Nibali was playing possum a little until he crashed, he really made up some serious time up to the leaders.
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    Totally agree, and personally I can't wait for stage 17 this coming week and really hoping Sky is put to the test by at least a couple of teams. Maybe Roglic and Landa will team up. (One can only hope )
    Thomas is riding great, and ultimately I hope he finishes ahead of Froomey, but with Nibali gone I'm in for Dumoulin.
    I really think Nibali was playing possum a little until he crashed, he really made up some serious time up to the leaders.
    Keep your figures crossed that Landa's back is drastically improved by then otherwise I find it hard to imagine he can do much. I HOPE Roglic can find a way to pull back time before the ITT as he's a good time trialist as well. I'm really hoping that Dumoulin keeps at least inside 30 seconds to Foome before the ITT as he can put that into Froome in an ITT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    Thomas had better see to it he still has a minute and a half on Tom before the ITT.

    Oh this race is still got some excitement left, a lot of uncertainty to be resolved. very nice entertainment for us. Just sad to be missing Nibali
    It may be unpopular, but Iím a fan of Lo Squalo. I hate to say it, but he was done before we started. I think top 10 was realistic.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldash View Post
    I agree but it is worth noting that Dumoulin, who did ride the Giro and relatively has come from nowhere in the last couple of years, is keeping pace with Thomas on the climbs so far.

    Sagan finished 4th yesterday on a very difficult climb and dropped many highly regarded climbers. That seems to be attracting little attention
    Tom DuMoulin is the same height and weight as Chris Froome.
    Eff the King's Guard. Eff the city. Eff the King.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Discuss.

    Explain.
    The ALPS. Same reason Tom D is doing well.
    Dr. Cox: Lady, people aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive bubble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    I hear you, Iím not on the doping train...Sagan, I think he suffers more from the length of a climb than the grade, sort of, I mean heís not overtaking GC Guys at 13% but he stayed pretty fresh, didnít use up any unnecessary gas approaching the final steep climb and then he had a brief downhill run to make up time. I think his Spring results are relatively consistent with that kind of capacity. On Alp DíHuez he gets shelled off the back.

    Tommy D may be the best GC Guy there but having no support ensures heís pulling a bowling ball up with him compared to a Sky leader...
    As you may know, I believe doping is widespread and common or standard in cycling and most other sports involving high physical performance.

    As for Sagan in stage 15, I watched the broadcast of the pre-race and race. Midway through the stage, the three commentators all agreed that Sagan would likely finish in the top four. They mention his all-around outstanding general strength, (the term "beast" was used) as opposed to being especially good at climbing, which he isn't. They also emphasized that no one goes down a hill faster than Sagan. (The 15th stage had a long descent and then flats as opposed to a summit finish.) Finally, he is an excellent sprinter, so...
    Last edited by GlobalGuy; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:23 PM. Reason: Typos and clarity

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldash View Post
    I agree but it is worth noting that Dumoulin, who did ride the Giro and relatively has come from nowhere in the last couple of years, is keeping pace with Thomas on the climbs so far.

    Sagan finished 4th yesterday on a very difficult climb and dropped many highly regarded climbers. That seems to be attracting little attention
    IMO, Sagan is a pure sprinter. But when you said Sagan came in 4th... It's attracting attention... I beg to differ that he's doping. We all know his strength is not climbing. But if/when he has a chance to win a cllimbing stage, I feel he can climb with the best of them. Albeit he can't do it stage after stage like the skinnier riders... But if he feels that he has a solid chance in winning a climbing stage, he can come close to it... But also means using up all of his mental and physical strength and setting him back for future stages... Which it was proven that it has...

    TdF is long but Sagan also wants to break the record of stage wins. Since the Tour is entering the last week and running low opportunity to win stages... He is attacking more climbing stages than he would prefer. I think that is what is fueling him on climbing stages. Breaking the record is his fueling his climbing stage wins. Not doping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenetsang View Post
    IMO, Sagan is a pure sprinter. But when you said Sagan came in 4th... It's attracting attention... I beg to differ that he's doping. We all know his strength is not climbing. But if/when he has a chance to win a cllimbing stage, I feel he can climb with the best of them. Albeit he can't do it stage after stage like the skinnier riders... But if he feels that he has a solid chance in winning a climbing stage, he can come close to it... But also means using up all of his mental and physical strength and setting him back for future stages... Which it was proven that it has...

    TdF is long but Sagan also wants to break the record of stage wins. Since the Tour is entering the last week and running low opportunity to win stages... He is attacking more climbing stages than he would prefer. I think that is what is fueling him on climbing stages. Breaking the record is his fueling his climbing stage wins. Not doping.
    I didnít say that. I said that it is attracting little attention - the exact opposite !
    Last edited by coldash; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolhand View Post
    The ALPS. Same reason Tom D is doing well.
    Yeah! I mean this is THE week for G. Thomas right here. 1st week was an extended rest day for him. We know he can climb... Week 3 is it. Thatís the only big question here, can he do it for this long? Iím betting he can and he will. Heís there, he didnít do the Giro... Does Froomie Work for him? Thatís a damn good question. Froomie is looking at history and GT is looking at the greatest professional accomplishment possible. Heís my got 2 1/2 stages and the ITT to go. Heís got this.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldash View Post
    I didnít say that. I said that it is attracting little attention - the exact opposite !
    Oops! Sorry! But you're right in that aspect! Sagan never proved that he was a "climber", but man! Those couple stages, he proved us all wrong! I guess he's really motivated on winning some extra stages, even if they are not sprints!

    I'm bummed that Gavaria dropped out of the TdF. Would been great to see him and Sagan battle it out on the sprints!

    But indirectly I'm glad that it worked out the way it did, otherwise Sagan probably wouldn't have 3 wins to his name this year!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenetsang View Post
    Oops! Sorry! But you're right in that aspect! Sagan never proved that he was a "climber", but man! Those couple stages, he proved us all wrong! I guess he's really motivated on winning some extra stages, even if they are not sprints!

    I'm bummed that Gavaria dropped out of the TdF. Would been great to see him and Sagan battle it out on the sprints!

    But indirectly I'm glad that it worked out the way it did, otherwise Sagan probably wouldn't have 3 wins to his name this year!


    Hmm heís around 20 stages short after 7-8 tours. Not seeing him get anywhere close to the record.
    Cook

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    Quote Originally Posted by coldash View Post
    I didnít say that. I said that it is attracting little attention - the exact opposite !
    Well, I don't know about the others, but Sagan's climbing prowess has improved since he was that kid at Cannondale who pester Cancellara. The younger Sagan would used to get drilled by Cancellara on short intense climb, and Sagan has since improved a lot. Also, in one of the Amgen Tour in the past when Sagan competed in, he dropped a lot of the 2nd and 3rd tiers climbers like Lauaren Ten Dam on Mt Baldy (4 miles, avg 9%). Sagan can put in a 1-time climb about 3-4 miles long 10% with the best of them, but he can't do this multiple times and in consecutive days. And Sagan has shown improvement in his climbing ever since he was with Cannondale. I would not call Sagan an overnight sensation. He's the type of classic man who can climb. Now if it was Cav or Kittle climbing Sagan, then I'd question those more.

    The other factor is age. Sagan started out young and improved continually, what you would expect. But when guys in their late 20s, who have shown no brilliance to have such capacity in their teens or early 20s, suddenly is showing brilliance in their late 20s and into early 30s, then they fall off the cliff after that, is definitely to be suspected. Physiological prodigy just doesn't work like that, nothing during early 20s then boom! genius in late 20s.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Well, I don't know about the others, but Sagan's climbing prowess has improved since he was that kid at Cannondale who pester Cancellara. The younger Sagan would used to get drilled by Cancellara on short intense climb, and Sagan has since improved a lot. Also, in one of the Amgen Tour in the past when Sagan competed in, he dropped a lot of the 2nd and 3rd tiers climbers like Lauaren Ten Dam on Mt Baldy (4 miles, avg 9%). Sagan can put in a 1-time climb about 3-4 miles long 10% with the best of them, but he can't do this multiple times and in consecutive days. And Sagan has shown improvement in his climbing ever since he was with Cannondale. I would not call Sagan an overnight sensation. He's the type of classic man who can climb. Now if it was Cav or Kittle climbing Sagan, then I'd question those more.

    The other factor is age. Sagan started out young and improved continually, what you would expect. But when guys in their late 20s, who have shown no brilliance to have such capacity in their teens or early 20s, suddenly is showing brilliance in their late 20s and into early 30s, then they fall off the cliff after that, is definitely to be suspected. Physiological prodigy just doesn't work like that, nothing during early 20s then boom! genius in late 20s.
    Agree completely.
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

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    Interesting commentary today by Fuglsang and Landa.

    https://www.velonews.com/2018/07/tou...he-tour_473305
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    Interesting commentary today by Fuglsang and Landa.

    https://www.velonews.com/2018/07/tou...he-tour_473305
    I take that as Fulsang's subtle way of suggesting something is going inside Sky, given their history with Wiggo and missing data.

    But let's just for a moment not focus on cycling. Let's take a look at other endurance sport such as swimming and running. Prodigal Olympic distance swimmers start to show flashes of brilliancy in their early-mid teen, and then ready to compete pro by late teen and dominate by early 20s. In running, same thing. Prodigies start to run close to 4-min mile in high school. By early 20s, they're top 10 among the pros. And once they've turned pros, they progress VERY SLOWLY from there, rate of improvement is no where like when they were teen, meaning they've almost peak; some will plateau and maybe even decline a bit.

    But apparently in pro cycling, there are a lot of late bloomers, some with sever asthma to boot! Guys who have been competing for their entire career up to late 20s have shown no sign of brilliance will suddenly rise to the top over night. It's no coincidence that cycling is also the most doped up endurance sport.

    Anyone the age of around 20-25 years old, and has trained consistently hard for 5-7
    years, will know that feeling of plateau, where you're fighting just to keep any minimal gains at all. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of coaches from other endurance sport disciplines who wonder how could you take an athlete who's pretty peak out and make him go faster in his late 20s. I would be wondering this if I were a coach.

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