Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 50 of 50

Thread: Windsor Hour

  1. #26
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: DIRT BOY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    7,871
    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    colors
    matt black
    bright blue
    dark green

    sizes 49, 52, 54, 56, 58, 61

    Frame 100% Cr-Mo, Water Bottle Mount
    Fork Triple Butted 100% Cr-Mo w/ Fender Mounts
    Headset Ritchey 1-1/8" Threadless
    Handlebars Alloy Bullhorn
    Stem Forged Alloy, 7 Degree
    Grips Velo Cushion Wrap Foam
    Brake Lever Tektro RX4.1, Alloy, F&R
    Brake(s) Tektro 510A Dual Pivot Caliper F&R
    Seat Post Micro Adjust Alloy 27.2
    Crankset FSA Vero3-pc Alloy, 170mm, Sealed Bearing, 46T Alloy
    Chain KMC Z410 Silver
    Pedal Wellgo Alloy w/ Cage & Toe Clips
    Rim Alex R500, 32H, Double Wall w/ CNC Sidewalls, w/ Stainless 14Ga. Spokes
    Front Hub Formula High Flange Alloy, 32H, Sealed Bearing,
    Rear Hub Formula High Flange Alloy, 32H, Sealed Bearing 16T FW/Fixed Flip Flop
    Tires Kenda K176, 700 X 28c


    price will be $299 or $319 depending on exchange rate
    no sales tax except in Texas; free shipping in 48 contential states
    and delivery is in April

    very simple decals
    brand DAWES
    model - 2009 SST [not bike currently on site]

    we ordered a lot
    but they will sell out quick
    I feel this bike will become the new standard for a super SS/Track deal with brakes
    Sounds decent. I like not having a 1" stem. I was going to use BH as well.

    Any pics coming soon? When could info to order possibly be on your site.
    DIRT BOY

    "Pain is a big fat creature riding on your back. The farther you pedal, the heavier he feels. The harder you push, the tighter he squeezes your chest. The steeper the climb, the deeper he digs his jagged, sharp claws into your muscles." - Scott Martin


  2. #27
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: bikesdirect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by richk
    But aren't you selling a bike now that is 299?
    yes
    but we sell lots of bikes with different specs at overlapping price points

    we are adding lots of track / single speed bikes in the next year
    steel ones
    aluminum ones
    with brakes
    without brakes
    cyclo-cross ones

    from $299 to $399 we will stock at least 5 models
    and then we are adding some higher priced one also - like with platinium ox tubing or 853
    and maybe Ti
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi

  3. #28
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: bikesdirect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRT BOY
    Sounds decent. I like not having a 1" stem. I was going to use BH as well.

    Any pics coming soon? When could info to order possibly be on your site.
    actually pictures
    on this this bike will not be up until the bike is in - sorry

    but I can tell you the colors look great
    and decals are very very low key
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi

  4. #29
    Alx
    Alx is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Alx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    587
    anyone have the weight on a stock windsor hour btw?

  5. #30
    Old and Fixed, Moderator
    Reputation: Dave Hickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    20,856
    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Sorry Dick
    But youre wrong about this

    Same exact bike is sold all over the country for $550 in stores
    PM or e-mail me for details

    Several exact spec bikes are sold at different prices with different decals on them
    this is not uncommon

    In two months we will be selling a track bike for $299 delivered that is EXACTLY like one sold for $539 all over [this bike was actually ordered based on info from one of Dave's post]

    Of course, non-indusry insiders may not get it
    but pro's like you and I know the score
    so if you want factory spec sheets and OE costs
    just e-mail me
    Why is he wrong for expressing his opinion? His opinion as a "pro"(your words), is that the bike is worth $300.

    That also happens to be my opinion as a lowly non-industry insider(again, your words Mike).

    I paid for a Windsor Hour with my own money and I gave a review based upon owning the bike.

    I honestly can't figure out why you have such a problem with people saying the bike is worth what you paid for it..We aren't knocking the bike, we are staying you get what you pay for....
    Dave Hickey/ Fort Worth

    My 3Rensho Blog: http://vintage3rensholove.blogspot.com/

  6. #31
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: bikesdirect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hickey
    Why is he wrong for expressing his opinion? His opinion as a "pro"(your words), is that the bike is worth $300.

    That also happens to be my opinion as a lowly non-industry insider(again, your words Mike).

    I paid for a Windsor Hour with my own money and I gave a review based upon owning the bike.

    I honestly can't figure out why you have such a problem with people saying the bike is worth what you paid for it..We aren't knocking the bike, we are staying you get what you pay for....
    Dave
    I have know Dick for 30 years; and he is a very good guy
    in this case he has made an error - and track is not a sector he has ever specialized in that I know of - so it's understandable

    the reason he and you are wrong in this area in my opinion is simple: this bike with the exact same specs from the exact same factory has been sold all over the USA by dealers for $500 to $600 {these dealers have all presented that build as a good deal at $500 or more}

    the 'retail' value is based in my mind on spec and performance;
    however, if one beleives a decal can add 70% to 80% in value - then that is a different story

    example: we sell a Surly Steamroller for $629.95
    and I know the spec and builder
    if I have the same exact bike built to the same exact spec
    is the resulting bike worth $629? or $319? or $429? or what?
    So if the brand is Mercier vs Surly will it last longer? ride better?
    maybe I just dont get it; to me a bike is about performance not decal
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi

  7. #32
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: bikesdirect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Alx
    anyone have the weight on a stock windsor hour btw?

    weight quoted by factory is 18.8 lbs
    customers tell us that their hours weigh 18 to 20 - depending on size

    so the weight is exactly in the range of all full chr-moly SS/Track bikes
    such as Fuji, Motobecane, Bianchi, Surly, Schwinn, KHS, Mercier
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi

  8. #33
    Old and Fixed, Moderator
    Reputation: Dave Hickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    20,856
    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Dave
    I have know Dick for 30 years; and he is a very good guy
    in this case he has made an error - and track is not a sector he has ever specialized in that I know of - so it's understandable

    the reason he and you are wrong in this area in my opinion is simple: this bike with the exact same specs from the exact same factory has been sold all over the USA by dealers for $500 to $600 {these dealers have all presented that build as a good deal at $500 or more}

    the 'retail' value is based in my mind on spec and performance;
    however, if one beleives a decal can add 70% to 80% in value - then that is a different story

    example: we sell a Surly Steamroller for $629.95
    and I know the spec and builder
    if I have the same exact bike built to the same exact spec
    is the resulting bike worth $629? or $319? or $429? or what?
    So if the brand is Mercier vs Surly will it last longer? ride better?
    maybe I just dont get it; to me a bike is about performance not decal

    I could care less what LBS's sell other versions for. The bike is worth $300....I have no ax to grind. I have no ulterior motive. I paid for the bike and I reviewed it.. it's a simple as that...
    Dave Hickey/ Fort Worth

    My 3Rensho Blog: http://vintage3rensholove.blogspot.com/

  9. #34
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: bikesdirect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hickey
    I could care less what LBS's sell other versions for. The bike is worth $300....I have no axe to grind. I have no ulterior motive. I paid for the bike and I reviewed it.. it's a simple as that...
    And I think you got good service - correct? Delivered quickly? As advertised?

    Now the real question
    if the same exact bike as a Surly Streamroller is available with a different decal
    what is it worth? $629? $529? $429? $329?
    as that spec is sold all over at $629 - isnt it a deal if you can get it for $429 even if decals say something else? or with no decals?

    this is the underlying question:
    does the spec and quality create the value?
    or is all about the decal?

    I am in favor of the best spec per dollar as the way to support cycling; but I guess some think branding is better for riders
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi

  10. #35
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    507
    I'd clean up the Ross, get some OP track wheels - eno rear, formula high flange front - modify the existing crank - or go with sugino or record pista - canecreek levers and ride off into the sunset. You'll also pass muster over at bsnyc.
    David Leroy Loving, III
    Waxahachie, Texas
    Biciclette Gios

  11. #36
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,095

    First off, Mike.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Dave
    I have know Dick for 30 years; and he is a very good guy
    in this case he has made an error - and track is not a sector he has ever specialized in that I know of - so it's understandable

    the reason he and you are wrong in this area in my opinion is simple: this bike with the exact same specs from the exact same factory has been sold all over the USA by dealers for $500 to $600 {these dealers have all presented that build as a good deal at $500 or more}

    the 'retail' value is based in my mind on spec and performance;
    however, if one beleives a decal can add 70% to 80% in value - then that is a different story

    example: we sell a Surly Steamroller for $629.95
    and I know the spec and builder
    if I have the same exact bike built to the same exact spec
    is the resulting bike worth $629? or $319? or $429? or what?
    So if the brand is Mercier vs Surly will it last longer? ride better?
    maybe I just dont get it; to me a bike is about performance not decal
    My name is not "Dick."

    Secondly, I don't know you personally. You are mistaking me for somebody else.

    Thirdly, the spec you reference on the "Dawes" is a quantum leap over both the Windsor Hour and the Motobecane Messenger. If you can pull that off for $300, more power to you.

    And finally, any bike out there is worth exactly what someone pays for it, not more. I could make a case that some people pay more than some bikes are really worth, but that's a topic for another thread.

  12. #37
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: bikesdirect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    My name is not "Dick."

    Secondly, I don't know you personally. You are mistaking me for somebody else.

    Thirdly, the spec you reference on the "Dawes" is a quantum leap over both the Windsor Hour and the Motobecane Messenger. If you can pull that off for $300, more power to you.

    And finally, any bike out there is worth exactly what someone pays for it, not more. I could make a case that some people pay more than some bikes are really worth, but that's a topic for another thread.
    Really!
    I assumed you were you know who over at Phat
    sorry

    The Dawes spec is actually a lower cost build than the Messenger
    Messenger and Kilo TT are two of the most expensive oem builds in SS/Track sold in the USA today - but not everyone gets that
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi

  13. #38
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,095
    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Sorry Dick
    But youre wrong about this

    Same exact bike is sold all over the country for $550 in stores
    PM or e-mail me for details
    If you are talking the "exact bike" being the Hour or the Messenger, I beg to differ.

    The "fixies" we sell (Cayne Uno, Trek Solo, Masi Speciale Fixed - $550, $550, and $650 respectively) have frames, forks, wheels and a component spec much closer to the Surley Steamroller you sell for over $600. The Hour's and the Messenger's I've personally seen have been far closer to "entry-level," i.e., 1" threaded with headsets I've seen on beach cruisers, low-flange non-sealed hubs, quill stems of dubious heritage, etc. That being said, they are fine $300 bikes, particularly if you've "upped" the spec as reflected on your website, probably worth it for the frame and fork alone (which if my observations of our burgeoning "hipster-fixie" clientele are doing with them - chopped risers with Oury's, deep V's, rattle can paint, etc. - are correct, then it's a sentiment shared.)

    Now if you can actually bring in the Dawes at the $350 price point, with a spec very similar to the Cayne Uno, then again I say more power to you.

    Me, I think the Masi Speciale Fixed in the dark green is the nicest off-the-shelf ss/fixie I've yet seen - even at $650.

  14. #39
    cheapy
    Reputation: richk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by warmseth
    hey rich, what city are you in? i have a crappy fixie that you could keep for a day or two and ride around to see if you like it. i'm in la
    Thanks wrong coast pa here.

  15. #40
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: bikesdirect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    If you are talking the "exact bike" being the Hour or the Messenger, I beg to differ.

    The "fixies" we sell (Cayne Uno, Trek Solo, Masi Speciale Fixed - $550, $550, and $650 respectively) have frames, forks, wheels and a component spec much closer to the Surley Steamroller you sell for over $600. The Hour's and the Messenger's I've personally seen have been far closer to "entry-level," i.e., 1" threaded with headsets I've seen on beach cruisers, low-flange non-sealed hubs, quill stems of dubious heritage, etc. That being said, they are fine $300 bikes, particularly if you've "upped" the spec as reflected on your website, probably worth it for the frame and fork alone (which if my observations of our burgeoning "hipster-fixie" clientele are doing with them - chopped risers with Oury's, deep V's, rattle can paint, etc. - are correct, then it's a sentiment shared.)

    Now if you can actually bring in the Dawes at the $350 price point, with a spec very similar to the Cayne Uno, then again I say more power to you.

    Me, I think the Masi Speciale Fixed in the dark green is the nicest off-the-shelf ss/fixie I've yet seen - even at $650.
    Now I see for sure
    you are clearly not Dick

    1" is a style - does not save more
    in fact - we canb build today with 1-1/8" headset for less at oem cost than 1"
    as 1-1/8" as become the standard
    but many track types still want 1" with quill
    there is a track forum on BF with a big discussion on that
    and most posters wanted 1" quill

    we can easily build and sell any of the spec you named for $350
    including the Masi
    math is simple - get Dick to show you the oem thru the channel path to msrp

    we have been unsure how long SS/T would stay strong
    so we have stayed with the 3 models we sell a lot of
    but since it seems to be continuing to grow
    we will add 3 or 5 more versions of complete bikes
    several will have 1-1/8" - with aheadset
    and some with better tubing than the 4130 used on about everything out there

    so it is an interesting market segment that many cyclists like; and if the costs can be kept low; many more can enjoy this type bike as a second or thrid cycle
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi

  16. #41
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,095
    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Now I see for sure
    you are clearly not Dick

    1" is a style - does not save more
    in fact - we canb build today with 1-1/8" headset for less at oem cost than 1"
    as 1-1/8" as become the standard
    but many track types still want 1" with quill
    there is a track forum on BF with a big discussion on that
    and most posters wanted 1" quill

    we can easily build and sell any of the spec you named for $350
    including the Masi
    math is simple - get Dick to show you the oem thru the channel path to msrp
    You are right. I'm clearly not "Dick."

    Sure, someone can offer a 1" threaded fork/headset/quill stem combo that costs a heck of a lot more than a generic 1 1/8" threadless. How about an NJS Hatta headset with a Tange Prestige flat crown fork and a Nitto NJS stem?

    That was not my point. My point was "entry-level" (dare I say "cheap?") 1" headsets and quill stems. Yes, a large segment of the "fixie" crowd wants 1" with quill - heck that's what I have on both of my fixed gear conversions. Try Campy Record, Cinelli, Nitto, Columbus and Reynolds.

    And I wasn't born in the bike business yesterday. I know what the cost to the IBD is for a Cayne Uno or a Masi Speciale Fixed - so much for "channel path." Manufacturers aren't non-profit entities. And neither are IBD's.

    Let me repeat myself. If you can bring in an ss/fixie with a frame, fork and component spec comparable to a Cayne Uno or a Masi Speciale Fixed for $200 less than any IBD can sell them for and expect to remain in business, then more power to you.

  17. #42
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: bikesdirect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard

    Let me repeat myself. If you can bring in an ss/fixie with a frame, fork and component spec comparable to a Cayne Uno or a Masi Speciale Fixed for $200 less than any IBD can sell them for and expect to remain in business, then more power to you.

    That is easy; very easy
    I can can make money with those exact spec at $250 less than list
    Please Ask David M. if he thinks I'll remain in business LOL
    but I guess after 30 years - no one really thinks I'm about to go out of business

    No seriously; the math is simple
    $600 bike in a IBD has average of $348 combined dealer+distributor margin
    I can easily sell a bike at $98 of margin and make money; do it all the time
    [even throw in free shipping at that magin]
    Some dealers may sell bikes that list at $600 for $500 and cut their margin from $240 to $140 - but most will not

    that is why; most areas of the country; customers pay $500 to $600 for bikes just like a Windsor Hour [exactly like - including specs and factory]


    Many customers do not think about this; or care
    and most IBDs do not know about it much
    Prices are different on bikes based on region.
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi

  18. #43
    cheapy
    Reputation: richk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    67

    2 pages later

    Mike what say you send me a Windsor to ride I would be glad to try it out and give my opinion on it. [U][U]After all you got all this additional Advertising.....
    ]As of now I am waiting for a set of wheels to convert the Ross . They are suppose to be in on Monday after the version with a con I think it will still be pretty heavy to ride . I figure the chrome wheels and group with in about 10 #'s Not sure what the new wheels will weigh .

  19. #44
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: bikesdirect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by richk
    Mike what say you send me a Windsor to ride I would be glad to try it out and give my opinion on it. [U][U]After all you got all this additional Advertising.....
    ]As of now I am waiting for a set of wheels to convert the Ross . They are suppose to be in on Monday after the version with a con I think it will still be pretty heavy to ride . I figure the chrome wheels and group with in about 10 #'s Not sure what the new wheels will weigh .

    Well
    I have already received thousands of opinions on that bike
    {by the way, the Windsor HOUR is the biggest selling track bike in the USA}
    the vast majority of opinions on it are simple: good as any fixed gear in an LBS for $500 or so

    but thanks anyway
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi

  20. #45
    Old and Fixed, Moderator
    Reputation: Dave Hickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    20,856
    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Well
    I have already received thousands of opinions on that bike
    {by the way, the Windsor HOUR is the biggest selling track bike in the USA}
    the vast majority of opinions on it are simple: good as any fixed gear in an LBS for $500 or so

    but thanks anyway
    Enough free advertising...Keep the conversation toward fixed geared bicycles and not about selling your product....
    Dave Hickey/ Fort Worth

    My 3Rensho Blog: http://vintage3rensholove.blogspot.com/

  21. #46
    cheapy
    Reputation: richk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    67

    like I said

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hickey
    Enough free advertising...Keep the conversation toward fixed geared bicycles and not about selling your product....

  22. #47
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,095
    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    That is easy; very easy
    I can can make money with those exact spec at $250 less than list
    Please Ask David M. if he thinks I'll remain in business LOL
    but I guess after 30 years - no one really thinks I'm about to go out of business.
    I was talking about IBD's remaining in business. I know you will.

    Bricks and mortar cost money, good mechanics cost money, bike assemblers cost money, knowledgable sales people cost money.

    Your name says it all. "Bikesdirect." Of course you can "undercut" the price structure at an IBD for virtually the same product. You have "cut out the middleman", i.e., the IBD.

    It is the consumer's choice and if the total "product" offered by an IBD isn't that important to them, or they don't perceive value there, then fine. It is their choice.

  23. #48
    duh...
    Reputation: FatTireFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    9,823
    How to ruin a great forum:

    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Well
    I have already received thousands of opinions on that bike
    {by the way, the Windsor HOUR is the biggest selling track bike in the USA}
    the vast majority of opinions on it are simple: good as any fixed gear in an LBS for $500 or so

    but thanks anyway

  24. #49
    cheapy
    Reputation: richk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by richk
    I was thinking of buying one from BD . What is with the warning tighten the rear wheel b4 and after riding? Is it a problem design or is this a standard for fixed rides?
    2nd question would I be better off converting my old bike a Ross see pic
    http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/sh...&ppuser=270894
    perhaps buying a fixed set of wheels etc etc?
    Now that all the advertisment is done with I think I will go with converting the Ross and buy from a local shop if I decide to stay (Single) ,instead of keeping corporate BD in business . I think it would be better to support the local shop and keep them in business instead. I mean the LBS has group rides buys coffee,bagels, supports the local homeless shelter . They also have a big bike to brunch all free..

  25. #50
    duh...
    Reputation: FatTireFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    9,823
    Quote Originally Posted by richk
    Now that all the advertisment is done with I think I will go with converting the Ross and buy from a local shop if I decide to stay (Single) ,instead of keeping corporate BD in business . I think it would be better to support the local shop and keep them in business instead. I mean the LBS has group rides buys coffee,bagels, supports the local homeless shelter . They also have a big bike to brunch all free..


    and presumably a phone number!

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Hot Deals

Contest

Tour De France

Latest RoadBike Articles


Latest Videos

RoadbikeReview on Facebook