Windsor Hour

[DIRT BOY]

colors
matt black
bright blue
dark green

sizes 49, 52, 54, 56, 58, 61

Frame 100% Cr-Mo, Water Bottle Mount
Fork Triple Butted 100% Cr-Mo w/ Fender Mounts
Headset Ritchey 1-1/8" Threadless
Handlebars Alloy Bullhorn
Stem Forged Alloy, 7 Degree
Grips Velo Cushion Wrap Foam
Brake Lever Tektro RX4.1, Alloy, F&R
Brake(s) Tektro 510A Dual Pivot Caliper F&R
Seat Post Micro Adjust Alloy 27.2
Crankset FSA Vero3-pc Alloy, 170mm, Sealed Bearing, 46T Alloy
Chain KMC Z410 Silver
Pedal Wellgo Alloy w/ Cage & Toe Clips
Rim Alex R500, 32H, Double Wall w/ CNC Sidewalls, w/ Stainless 14Ga. Spokes
Front Hub Formula High Flange Alloy, 32H, Sealed Bearing,
Rear Hub Formula High Flange Alloy, 32H, Sealed Bearing 16T FW/Fixed Flip Flop
Tires Kenda K176, 700 X 28c


price will be $299 or $319 depending on exchange rate
no sales tax except in Texas; free shipping in 48 contential states
and delivery is in April

very simple decals
brand DAWES
model - 2009 SST [not bike currently on site]

we ordered a lot
but they will sell out quick
I feel this bike will become the new standard for a super SS/Track deal with brakes

Sounds decent. I like not having a 1" stem. I was going to use BH as well.

Any pics coming soon? When could info to order possibly be on your site.

[bikesdirect]

But aren't you selling a bike now that is 299?

yes
but we sell lots of bikes with different specs at overlapping price points

we are adding lots of track / single speed bikes in the next year
steel ones
aluminum ones
with brakes
without brakes
cyclo-cross ones

from $299 to $399 we will stock at least 5 models
and then we are adding some higher priced one also - like with platinium ox tubing or 853
and maybe Ti

[bikesdirect]

Sounds decent. I like not having a 1" stem. I was going to use BH as well.

Any pics coming soon? When could info to order possibly be on your site.

actually pictures
on this this bike will not be up until the bike is in - sorry

but I can tell you the colors look great
and decals are very very low key

[Alx]

anyone have the weight on a stock windsor hour btw?

[Dave Hickey]

Sorry Dick
But youre wrong about this

Same exact bike is sold all over the country for $550 in stores
PM or e-mail me for details

Several exact spec bikes are sold at different prices with different decals on them
this is not uncommon

In two months we will be selling a track bike for $299 delivered that is EXACTLY like one sold for $539 all over [this bike was actually ordered based on info from one of Dave's post]

Of course, non-indusry insiders may not get it
but pro's like you and I know the score
so if you want factory spec sheets and OE costs
just e-mail me

Why is he wrong for expressing his opinion? His opinion as a "pro"(your words), is that the bike is worth $300.

That also happens to be my opinion as a lowly non-industry insider(again, your words Mike).

I paid for a Windsor Hour with my own money and I gave a review based upon owning the bike.

I honestly can't figure out why you have such a problem with people saying the bike is worth what you paid for it..We aren't knocking the bike, we are staying you get what you pay for....

[bikesdirect]

Why is he wrong for expressing his opinion? His opinion as a "pro"(your words), is that the bike is worth $300.

That also happens to be my opinion as a lowly non-industry insider(again, your words Mike).

I paid for a Windsor Hour with my own money and I gave a review based upon owning the bike.

I honestly can't figure out why you have such a problem with people saying the bike is worth what you paid for it..We aren't knocking the bike, we are staying you get what you pay for....

Dave
I have know Dick for 30 years; and he is a very good guy
in this case he has made an error - and track is not a sector he has ever specialized in that I know of - so it's understandable

the reason he and you are wrong in this area in my opinion is simple: this bike with the exact same specs from the exact same factory has been sold all over the USA by dealers for $500 to $600 {these dealers have all presented that build as a good deal at $500 or more}

the 'retail' value is based in my mind on spec and performance;
however, if one beleives a decal can add 70% to 80% in value - then that is a different story

example: we sell a Surly Steamroller for $629.95
and I know the spec and builder
if I have the same exact bike built to the same exact spec
is the resulting bike worth $629? or $319? or $429? or what?
So if the brand is Mercier vs Surly will it last longer? ride better?
maybe I just dont get it; to me a bike is about performance not decal

[bikesdirect]

anyone have the weight on a stock windsor hour btw?

weight quoted by factory is 18.8 lbs
customers tell us that their hours weigh 18 to 20 - depending on size

so the weight is exactly in the range of all full chr-moly SS/Track bikes
such as Fuji, Motobecane, Bianchi, Surly, Schwinn, KHS, Mercier

[Dave Hickey]

Dave
I have know Dick for 30 years; and he is a very good guy
in this case he has made an error - and track is not a sector he has ever specialized in that I know of - so it's understandable

the reason he and you are wrong in this area in my opinion is simple: this bike with the exact same specs from the exact same factory has been sold all over the USA by dealers for $500 to $600 {these dealers have all presented that build as a good deal at $500 or more}

the 'retail' value is based in my mind on spec and performance;
however, if one beleives a decal can add 70% to 80% in value - then that is a different story

example: we sell a Surly Steamroller for $629.95
and I know the spec and builder
if I have the same exact bike built to the same exact spec
is the resulting bike worth $629? or $319? or $429? or what?
So if the brand is Mercier vs Surly will it last longer? ride better?
maybe I just dont get it; to me a bike is about performance not decal

I could care less what LBS's sell other versions for. The bike is worth $300....I have no ax to grind. I have no ulterior motive. I paid for the bike and I reviewed it.. it's a simple as that...

[bikesdirect]

I could care less what LBS's sell other versions for. The bike is worth $300....I have no axe to grind. I have no ulterior motive. I paid for the bike and I reviewed it.. it's a simple as that...

And I think you got good service - correct? Delivered quickly? As advertised?

Now the real question
if the same exact bike as a Surly Streamroller is available with a different decal
what is it worth? $629? $529? $429? $329?
as that spec is sold all over at $629 - isnt it a deal if you can get it for $429 even if decals say something else? or with no decals?

this is the underlying question:
does the spec and quality create the value?
or is all about the decal?

I am in favor of the best spec per dollar as the way to support cycling; but I guess some think branding is better for riders

[RoyIII]

I'd clean up the Ross, get some OP track wheels - eno rear, formula high flange front - modify the existing crank - or go with sugino or record pista - canecreek levers and ride off into the sunset. You'll also pass muster over at bsnyc.

[Richard]

Dave
I have know Dick for 30 years; and he is a very good guy
in this case he has made an error - and track is not a sector he has ever specialized in that I know of - so it's understandable

the reason he and you are wrong in this area in my opinion is simple: this bike with the exact same specs from the exact same factory has been sold all over the USA by dealers for $500 to $600 {these dealers have all presented that build as a good deal at $500 or more}

the 'retail' value is based in my mind on spec and performance;
however, if one beleives a decal can add 70% to 80% in value - then that is a different story

example: we sell a Surly Steamroller for $629.95
and I know the spec and builder
if I have the same exact bike built to the same exact spec
is the resulting bike worth $629? or $319? or $429? or what?
So if the brand is Mercier vs Surly will it last longer? ride better?
maybe I just dont get it; to me a bike is about performance not decal

My name is not "Dick."

Secondly, I don't know you personally. You are mistaking me for somebody else.

Thirdly, the spec you reference on the "Dawes" is a quantum leap over both the Windsor Hour and the Motobecane Messenger. If you can pull that off for $300, more power to you.

And finally, any bike out there is worth exactly what someone pays for it, not more. I could make a case that some people pay more than some bikes are really worth, but that's a topic for another thread.

[bikesdirect]

My name is not "Dick."

Secondly, I don't know you personally. You are mistaking me for somebody else.

Thirdly, the spec you reference on the "Dawes" is a quantum leap over both the Windsor Hour and the Motobecane Messenger. If you can pull that off for $300, more power to you.

And finally, any bike out there is worth exactly what someone pays for it, not more. I could make a case that some people pay more than some bikes are really worth, but that's a topic for another thread.

Really!
I assumed you were you know who over at Phat
sorry

The Dawes spec is actually a lower cost build than the Messenger
Messenger and Kilo TT are two of the most expensive oem builds in SS/Track sold in the USA today - but not everyone gets that

[Richard]

Sorry Dick
But youre wrong about this

Same exact bike is sold all over the country for $550 in stores
PM or e-mail me for details

If you are talking the "exact bike" being the Hour or the Messenger, I beg to differ.

The "fixies" we sell (Cayne Uno, Trek Solo, Masi Speciale Fixed - $550, $550, and $650 respectively) have frames, forks, wheels and a component spec much closer to the Surley Steamroller you sell for over $600. The Hour's and the Messenger's I've personally seen have been far closer to "entry-level," i.e., 1" threaded with headsets I've seen on beach cruisers, low-flange non-sealed hubs, quill stems of dubious heritage, etc. That being said, they are fine $300 bikes, particularly if you've "upped" the spec as reflected on your website, probably worth it for the frame and fork alone (which if my observations of our burgeoning "hipster-fixie" clientele are doing with them - chopped risers with Oury's, deep V's, rattle can paint, etc. - are correct, then it's a sentiment shared.)

Now if you can actually bring in the Dawes at the $350 price point, with a spec very similar to the Cayne Uno, then again I say more power to you.

Me, I think the Masi Speciale Fixed in the dark green is the nicest off-the-shelf ss/fixie I've yet seen - even at $650.

[richk]

hey rich, what city are you in? i have a crappy fixie that you could keep for a day or two and ride around to see if you like it. i'm in la

Thanks wrong coast pa here.

[bikesdirect]

If you are talking the "exact bike" being the Hour or the Messenger, I beg to differ.

The "fixies" we sell (Cayne Uno, Trek Solo, Masi Speciale Fixed - $550, $550, and $650 respectively) have frames, forks, wheels and a component spec much closer to the Surley Steamroller you sell for over $600. The Hour's and the Messenger's I've personally seen have been far closer to "entry-level," i.e., 1" threaded with headsets I've seen on beach cruisers, low-flange non-sealed hubs, quill stems of dubious heritage, etc. That being said, they are fine $300 bikes, particularly if you've "upped" the spec as reflected on your website, probably worth it for the frame and fork alone (which if my observations of our burgeoning "hipster-fixie" clientele are doing with them - chopped risers with Oury's, deep V's, rattle can paint, etc. - are correct, then it's a sentiment shared.)

Now if you can actually bring in the Dawes at the $350 price point, with a spec very similar to the Cayne Uno, then again I say more power to you.

Me, I think the Masi Speciale Fixed in the dark green is the nicest off-the-shelf ss/fixie I've yet seen - even at $650.

Now I see for sure
you are clearly not Dick

1" is a style - does not save more
in fact - we canb build today with 1-1/8" headset for less at oem cost than 1"
as 1-1/8" as become the standard
but many track types still want 1" with quill
there is a track forum on BF with a big discussion on that
and most posters wanted 1" quill

we can easily build and sell any of the spec you named for $350
including the Masi
math is simple - get Dick to show you the oem thru the channel path to msrp

we have been unsure how long SS/T would stay strong
so we have stayed with the 3 models we sell a lot of
but since it seems to be continuing to grow
we will add 3 or 5 more versions of complete bikes
several will have 1-1/8" - with aheadset
and some with better tubing than the 4130 used on about everything out there

so it is an interesting market segment that many cyclists like; and if the costs can be kept low; many more can enjoy this type bike as a second or thrid cycle

[Richard]

Now I see for sure
you are clearly not Dick

1" is a style - does not save more
in fact - we canb build today with 1-1/8" headset for less at oem cost than 1"
as 1-1/8" as become the standard
but many track types still want 1" with quill
there is a track forum on BF with a big discussion on that
and most posters wanted 1" quill

we can easily build and sell any of the spec you named for $350
including the Masi
math is simple - get Dick to show you the oem thru the channel path to msrp

You are right. I'm clearly not "Dick."

Sure, someone can offer a 1" threaded fork/headset/quill stem combo that costs a heck of a lot more than a generic 1 1/8" threadless. How about an NJS Hatta headset with a Tange Prestige flat crown fork and a Nitto NJS stem?

That was not my point. My point was "entry-level" (dare I say "cheap?") 1" headsets and quill stems. Yes, a large segment of the "fixie" crowd wants 1" with quill - heck that's what I have on both of my fixed gear conversions. Try Campy Record, Cinelli, Nitto, Columbus and Reynolds.

And I wasn't born in the bike business yesterday. I know what the cost to the IBD is for a Cayne Uno or a Masi Speciale Fixed - so much for "channel path." Manufacturers aren't non-profit entities. And neither are IBD's.

Let me repeat myself. If you can bring in an ss/fixie with a frame, fork and component spec comparable to a Cayne Uno or a Masi Speciale Fixed for $200 less than any IBD can sell them for and expect to remain in business, then more power to you.

[bikesdirect]

Let me repeat myself. If you can bring in an ss/fixie with a frame, fork and component spec comparable to a Cayne Uno or a Masi Speciale Fixed for $200 less than any IBD can sell them for and expect to remain in business, then more power to you.

That is easy; very easy
I can can make money with those exact spec at $250 less than list
Please Ask David M. if he thinks I'll remain in business LOL
but I guess after 30 years - no one really thinks I'm about to go out of business

No seriously; the math is simple
$600 bike in a IBD has average of $348 combined dealer+distributor margin
I can easily sell a bike at $98 of margin and make money; do it all the time
[even throw in free shipping at that magin]
Some dealers may sell bikes that list at $600 for $500 and cut their margin from $240 to $140 - but most will not

that is why; most areas of the country; customers pay $500 to $600 for bikes just like a Windsor Hour [exactly like - including specs and factory]


Many customers do not think about this; or care
and most IBDs do not know about it much
Prices are different on bikes based on region.

[richk]

Mike what say you send me a Windsor to ride I would be glad to try it out and give my opinion on it. [U][U]After all you got all this additional Advertising.....
]As of now I am waiting for a set of wheels to convert the Ross . They are suppose to be in on Monday after the version with a con I think it will still be pretty heavy to ride . I figure the chrome wheels and group with in about 10 #'s Not sure what the new wheels will weigh .

[bikesdirect]

Mike what say you send me a Windsor to ride I would be glad to try it out and give my opinion on it. [U][U]After all you got all this additional Advertising.....
]As of now I am waiting for a set of wheels to convert the Ross . They are suppose to be in on Monday after the version with a con I think it will still be pretty heavy to ride . I figure the chrome wheels and group with in about 10 #'s Not sure what the new wheels will weigh .

Well
I have already received thousands of opinions on that bike
{by the way, the Windsor HOUR is the biggest selling track bike in the USA}
the vast majority of opinions on it are simple: good as any fixed gear in an LBS for $500 or so

but thanks anyway

[Dave Hickey]

Well
I have already received thousands of opinions on that bike
{by the way, the Windsor HOUR is the biggest selling track bike in the USA}
the vast majority of opinions on it are simple: good as any fixed gear in an LBS for $500 or so

but thanks anyway

Enough free advertising...Keep the conversation toward fixed geared bicycles and not about selling your product....

[richk]

Enough free advertising...Keep the conversation toward fixed geared bicycles and not about selling your product....

[Richard]

That is easy; very easy
I can can make money with those exact spec at $250 less than list
Please Ask David M. if he thinks I'll remain in business LOL
but I guess after 30 years - no one really thinks I'm about to go out of business.

I was talking about IBD's remaining in business. I know you will.

Bricks and mortar cost money, good mechanics cost money, bike assemblers cost money, knowledgable sales people cost money.

Your name says it all. "Bikesdirect." Of course you can "undercut" the price structure at an IBD for virtually the same product. You have "cut out the middleman", i.e., the IBD.

It is the consumer's choice and if the total "product" offered by an IBD isn't that important to them, or they don't perceive value there, then fine. It is their choice.

[FatTireFred]

How to ruin a great forum:

Well
I have already received thousands of opinions on that bike
{by the way, the Windsor HOUR is the biggest selling track bike in the USA}
the vast majority of opinions on it are simple: good as any fixed gear in an LBS for $500 or so

but thanks anyway

[richk]

I was thinking of buying one from BD . What is with the warning tighten the rear wheel b4 and after riding? Is it a problem design or is this a standard for fixed rides?
2nd question would I be better off converting my old bike a Ross see pic
http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/sh...&ppuser=270894
perhaps buying a fixed set of wheels etc etc?

Now that all the advertisment is done with I think I will go with converting the Ross and buy from a local shop if I decide to stay (Single) ,instead of keeping corporate BD in business . I think it would be better to support the local shop and keep them in business instead. I mean the LBS has group rides buys coffee,bagels, supports the local homeless shelter . They also have a big bike to brunch all free..

[FatTireFred]

Now that all the advertisment is done with I think I will go with converting the Ross and buy from a local shop if I decide to stay (Single) ,instead of keeping corporate BD in business . I think it would be better to support the local shop and keep them in business instead. I mean the LBS has group rides buys coffee,bagels, supports the local homeless shelter . They also have a big bike to brunch all free..

and presumably a phone number!