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  1. #1
    jwk
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    2012 Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL- Steel Spoke? Rust

    I was seriously considering buying the Cosmic Carbone's but after seeing the spokes are made of "steel," that was the deal breaker for me. What I don't understand is their Kysarium Elites use Stainless Steel Spokes but why the more expensive Carbones use steel spokes? I don't ride in winter but even in summer, moisture, a little rain getting in would eventtually cause corrosion. I think Mavic dropped the ball on this design as the spokes should have been made of stainless steel

  2. #2
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    Just because the spokes are "steel" doesn't mean they're more prone to rust/corrosion.

    From Mavic's site, the following models all have steel spokes:

    Cosmic Carbone SL
    Cosmic Carbone SLE
    Cosmic Elite
    Ksyrium Equipe

    If you're worried about this non-issue, then buy something else. There's plenty of other models and brands to choose from.

  3. #3
    jwk
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    My Ksyrium Elites have Stainless Steel. But I have seen an add on Craigslist where the seller of Carbone SL said his rusted from riding in the winter, spokes that is. I don't see that much of a problem except when trying to true the wheel it can cause spoke to not be able to be trued. I just think that is a terrible design and to pay big bucks for these wheels I would expect quality. Well I am glad I passed up on buying these as i would have been unhappy about the chance of corrosion.
    Last edited by jwk; 01-29-2012 at 03:38 PM. Reason: adding comments

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    So your concern is just stemming from something you read on Craigslist that may or may not be true and/or verifiable?

    I would think that if rust and corrosion were truly a problem, Mavic would have designed these wheels with something different. You would think that if this problem were rampant, you'd see complaints about it all over forums like this one - but you don't. That should say more to you than a single isolated posting on CL.

  5. #5
    jwk
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    Propofol, while I agree for the most part it wouldn't be that much of a problem because they are "painted" but I do know enough about "steel" to understand a chip in the paint can allow unprotected metal to corrode. Aluminum can also rust as well as stainless but it is much more resistant. At either case, if these wheels were cheap, not a big problem but to spend 1100 dollars, I think I will just hang onto my Ksyarium Elites which use stainless steel spokes. Also, the Cosmic Carbones have drilled holes to allow adjustment of the spokes, thus taking some strength away and making more prone to cracks where the Kysarium elites I have, there is only one hole drilled, thus it is stronger by design. I guess it is how you look at it. I love the Cosmic Carbones, would love to have a pair but the more expensive something is, the less tolerance for engineering designs.

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    That's fine. Frankly I couldn't care less what you buy and don't buy. I am just saying that you have no proof that there is a design issue/flaw with Mavic's wheels with steel spokes, just speculation. Furthermore, I hardly think you're qualified to make an informed decision or evaluation of Mavic's design practices given that you can't even spell "Ksyrium" right.

  7. #7
    jwk
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    Well, OK I guess we agree to disagree. No reason to get upset or defensive about it. I did see a craigslist add, no I did not put the ad there but the seller said wheel was in great condition other than surface rust. What more proof do I need? Do you think people put ads on CL just for the heck of it? I wouldn't think so but regardless I rather have stainless steel spokes that won't rust

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwk View Post
    Well, OK I guess we agree to disagree. No reason to get upset or defensive about it. I did see a craigslist add, no I did not put the ad there but the seller said wheel was in great condition other than surface rust. What more proof do I need? Do you think people put ads on CL just for the heck of it? I wouldn't think so but regardless I rather have stainless steel spokes that won't rust
    Whatever. I just find it interesting that doing a search for "mavic rust" on this forum and 2 others shows NO reports of any problems with spokes rusting. That should be a good indication that this is not a widespread problem, nor is it a design or engineering flaw. And I also find it surprising that you give more credit to what's said in a CL ad than anything else.

    I'm not upset or defensive. If you can't accept that you are making this more of an issue than it really is, that's your problem.

  9. #9
    jwk
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    It all boils down to what you feel comfortable with. For me I prefer things that are corrosion resistant and as a matter of choice will never buy anything that is made of steel period. It may not be a problem to others, there may not be enough cases for rust, however, my bike shop did say they have seen wheels that could not be trued because of bad corrosion. That said, I just don't want to buy anything made of steel unless it is stainless.

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    I have had these wheels for over a year, this is a non issue. You would hear reviewers here slamming them if there was anything like that.

    If you are concerned buy a different set of wheels.

  11. #11
    jwk
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    Rusted Spoke Nipples

    The above link is an article that does concur with what I was saying all along. Are you going to dispute an article written by a trained mechanic?

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    That articles zero mention of the wheels you note. There are a lot of wheels on the market, buy something else.

  13. #13
    jwk
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    but the fact they are made of steel, regardless it will more likely have more chance of rust than stainless. I just prefer stainless regardless and a matter of choice.But further research, the cosmic carbones also have double drilled holes on their rims which weakens them and make them more prone to cracks where their Kysarium Elites are stonger because the bottom rim is not doubled drilled. I guess what i am trying to do is find a good balance of something that is durable and something that wont' have much chance to rust or brake.

  14. #14
    Carbon Fiber = Explode!
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    Just for your information... most people smoking you on their Mavic Cosmic Carbones are relatively happy with their rusted spokes.
    '09 Voodoo Wazoo
    '08 Pedal Force RS2
    '06 Raleigh Cadent 5.0
    '01 Trek 4300 MTB
    '93 Norco Nitro MTB Touring
    '88 Schwinn Prelude Fixie
    1 hour of running = 1 hour of wasted time when you could have been riding. - Alaska Mike

  15. #15
    jwk
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    Cleaves you really need to grow up dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwk View Post
    but the fact they are made of steel, regardless it will more likely have more chance of rust than stainless. I just prefer stainless regardless and a matter of choice.But further research, the cosmic carbones also have double drilled holes on their rims which weakens them and make them more prone to cracks where their Kysarium Elites are stonger because the bottom rim is not doubled drilled. I guess what i am trying to do is find a good balance of something that is durable and something that wont' have much chance to rust or brake.
    There you go again. It's "KSYRIUM", not "Kysarium". There is no such thing as a Mavic Kysarium wheel. Stop butchering the name, it's making you look stupid.

    You seem to be more concerned with what can potentially happen, not what happens in the real world. I as well as a few others here have already said it's a non-issue, yet you're still insisting that spoke rust/corrosion leading to weakness is a HUGE issue for you and is a deal breaker. That's fine, your mind appears to be made up regardless of what anyone tells you so just go buy something else. What more is there to say?

    I'm starting to suspect that you're nothing but a troll.

  17. #17
    jwk
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    Propofol, whatever but what I am also looking at is the fact they are expensive wheels OK? I am entitled as a consumer to base my decision on more than just pure if performance. I also look at other factors as quality of build, material, workmanship and things like that. Not everybody is just looking to get a set of wheels so they can etch out every second. I am a runner and primarily a runner. I ride just for fun but love the way the cosmic look. If the wheels were only 400 dollars yeah not a big deal if they are steal but paying 1100 I am less tolerent.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwk View Post
    Propofol, whatever but what I am also looking at is the fact they are expensive wheels OK? I am entitled as a consumer to base my decision on more than just pure if performance. I also look at other factors as quality of build, material, workmanship and things like that. Not everybody is just looking to get a set of wheels so they can etch out every second. I am a runner and primarily a runner. I ride just for fun but love the way the cosmic look. If the wheels were only 400 dollars yeah not a big deal if they are steal but paying 1100 I am less tolerent.
    There is nothing wrong with the Cosmic Carbone's quality of build, material, or workmanship despite what you think. You keep on ignoring the fact that there are virtually NO complaints of spoke corrosion or failure while you remain fixated on one post from Craigslist. That makes no sense whatsoever. There are plenty of other deep profile aero wheels available with carbon fairings without steel spokes from Mavic and other manufacturers. Find one you like and quit *****ing.

    You've posted your rant. You think the Carbones suck, which is fine. You refuse to accept that it has steel spokes, fine. You haven't purchased them. So what is the problem and what more is there to discuss??

  19. #19
    jwk
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    Listen man, you don't have to get so angry over a discussion. Part of my objective here was to here others opinion as I struggled for the last three days to decide whether to get these wheels or not. Maybe you have plenty of money to spend and 1100 is not a big deal but to me that is a lot of money. Again, people have different comfort levels and different reasons for making purchases. OK I am just one who happens to be more into looks then how it performs. As a recreational rider, I am not looking to win any races, but to just enjoy a cool looking toy. So while many of you serious riders are more concerned with performance than looks or other factors, I am more interested in the asthetics. It is not a rant, I am not out to prove they suck. I think they are great wheels but I am going to hold off until they possibly come out wtih carbones that use stainless steal spokes.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwk View Post
    Listen man, you don't have to get so angry over a discussion. Part of my objective here was to here others opinion as I struggled for the last three days to decide whether to get these wheels or not.
    Uh, no. Your original post says:

    I was seriously considering buying the Cosmic Carbone's but after seeing the spokes are made of "steel," that was the deal breaker for me.
    Sounds like you have already considered and ruled out buying the Carbones even before posting here, given that steel spokes were a "deal breaker" for you. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that you posted your rant just to incite flames.

    Maybe you have plenty of money to spend and 1100 is not a big deal but to me that is a lot of money. Again, people have different comfort levels and different reasons for making purchases. OK I am just one who happens to be more into looks then how it performs. As a recreational rider, I am not looking to win any races, but to just enjoy a cool looking toy. So while many of you serious riders are more concerned with performance than looks or other factors, I am more interested in the asthetics. It is not a rant, I am not out to prove they suck. I think they are great wheels but I am going to hold off until they possibly come out wtih carbones that use stainless steal spokes.
    If looks are all that matter to you then you are wasting your money on a new deep profile aero wheelset.

    Honestly, just listen to yourself. You are complaining about the steel spokes on a set of wheels that you have already ruled out buying, because they have the potential to rust/corrode and fail - despite more than one person here telling you it's not a problem. How idiotic is that.

  21. #21
    jwk
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    I guess you really don't understand that people have different reasons on why they make a purchase. In my case, my reasons as obviously shallow ones but just the same. Now as a runner, I buy shoes not for looks. In fact I could care less what they look like, how little they last, as long as they perform that's all I care about. My race shoes probably only good for 1 marathon and others who are not into marathons would reason it would be foolish to spend 110 dollars on shoes that are only good for one race when you can buy a more heavier and durable shoe that will last longer. So in the realm of shoes and running I am practical where in biking, I want to have quality over performance. To me, the fact the spokes are steal, I have a problem wtih that. Again when mavic if they ever make ones with stainless I will probably buy them

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwk View Post
    I guess you really don't understand that people have different reasons on why they make a purchase. In my case, my reasons as obviously shallow ones but just the same. Now as a runner, I buy shoes not for looks. In fact I could care less what they look like, how little they last, as long as they perform that's all I care about. My race shoes probably only good for 1 marathon and others who are not into marathons would reason it would be foolish to spend 110 dollars on shoes that are only good for one race when you can buy a more heavier and durable shoe that will last longer. So in the realm of shoes and running I am practical where in biking, I want to have quality over performance. To me, the fact the spokes are steal, I have a problem wtih that. Again when mavic if they ever make ones with stainless I will probably buy them
    I fully understand, thank you. The flaw in your reasoning above is that quality does not equal looks. And having steel spokes does NOT mean poor quality.

    There is probably a reason Mavic chose steel spokes for the Cosmic Carbone SL instead of stainless steel or Zicral, and it likely has to do with the build integrity of a deep profile rim. Comparing the spokes in a Cosmic Carbone to the spokes in a Ksyrium Elite doesn't make sense, they are completely different wheel types with different purposes. And this isn't unique to Mavic, DT Swiss also manufacture steel spokes as well.

    Nobody's denying that you have a problem with steel spokes. We're just saying your problem is unfounded and has zero basis in fact, and you keep ignoring that. In fact, I see from your post history that you've participated in other threads about the Carbone where people have said the wheel is durable and bombproof, but you still want to fixate on durability and rust issues. Whatever.

    Why bother discussing this anymore? You've already ruled out buying the Cosmic Carbone so there really was no purpose to this entire thread other than to complain about some imaginary flaw in Mavic's engineering.

    Seriously, I feel like I'm having a discussion with a 6 year old. Your mind is made up and you refuse to listen to other points of view while trying to push your own ignorant beliefs on others.

  23. #23
    jwk
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    Whatever but I don't think you read my part where me, as my primary sport is running, it's all about performance as far as shoes and could care less if the shoes I buy only last 1 race. All I care about is the ability to beat the comp. Where I think with you and other riders, it is just the same, you are more concerned with weight savings, aerodynamics, and see the wheel as a tool. To recreational runners, they may base their decision on what type of shoes to buy based on looks. Where me I could care less if they are pink and again only last one race. I only care about performance. I was hoping the Carbones, as for my shallow reasons for wanting to own them, could have at least been made of stainless. Point understood about the corrosion issue not being a factor but I plan on or at least hoping to have these for a lifetime. I know most bikers will only get about 10 to 14K before they eventually crack from wear, but me my reasons again are different and I don't think this makes me a 7 year old for stating this. Iknow there are plenty of folks who were complaiing about the mavics death squeel but have also lerned that is mostly because of negligence on maintenance

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    The fact that you're a runner is irrelevant.

    Your posts are full of contradictions and most of your points make no sense whatsoever.

    You stated in one of your posts above that you "will never buy anything that is made of steel period". So you shouldn't have even considered buying Cosmic Carbone SLs in the first place. So what was the point of this thread? Just to say "if Mavic made Carbone SLs with stainless spokes I would have bought them"? Who cares?

    Second, if you understand that corrosion is not a factor, then it shouldn't be a factor even if you were hoping to have these wheels "for a lifetime". But again - why the hell are you still debating buying these wheels if you have a personal policy against buying anything made with steel?????

    Seriously - you are a waste of time. You start this thread just to rant against a wheelset that you should not consider buying in the first place, and then you refuse to accept or listen to reason that other people have presented in their posts. Completely pointless.

    Quit your whining and just go buy something else already. Cosmic Carbones should never have been on your radar in the first place.

  25. #25
    jwk
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    Well I will say it again, I am not here to get into semantics and this post will be my last response as we are beginning to talk in a circle. You I guess do not understand my point and using "runner" was to show the difference in reasons of why certain features of a product are more important than others, again this is something you are missing and not comprehending. It seems you are more concerned with what you want to say than what is the real issue here. We can go on and on and on and waste more time debating. Whether it seems I am controdicting myself, you are putting way too much emotion into this. I have been dealing with screaming kids, wife that complains, all the while trying to respond to your comments. And no you are wrong to say Cosmic Carbones should have never been on my radar. People when buying a product can often make bad mistakes and buy the product unknowingly of the flaws. When I bought my Kawasaki ZX-10, nobody knew it had a bad valve train until after the fact. So I think you are wrong to conclude it was wrong for me to have considered the Carbones. I was going to buy them today, but after doing a side by side comparison, then i noticed the material for spokes was different than my Kysariums, that's when I decided I didn't want them. OK so in your mind, nothing wrong with steel spokes. OK not a problem for you or anybody else and I respect that. But again I have different resaons. Anyway I am signing off on this because I don't have time to debate for days on a matter. I thank you for your contribution, but I don't think it added anything to what I was hoping for. I was hoping someone could have convinced me that steel spokes would be fine but the mechanic at my bike shop did tell me over and over again that bikes do come in with the nipples on the wheelsets corroded because of salt in the winter time. Anyway, I rest my case, go ahead make more comments but I am done responding.

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