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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Uh, depending on the state this may be legal to do and proper. Many road law books state "as far to the right as is practicable". But many road statutes in many places also state something like "When a lane is too narrow for a bicycle and a car to share safely, the cyclist is entitled to the use of the entire lane."
    I live in NJ too. Our laws say "as far to the right as is practicable" as well as "bike may use full lane". There are times when I will take the full lane for safety's sake. And yes, I have been horn blasted for doing this. But I am not willing to take the chance of getting doored by people in parked cars. I will give them room to pass me as soon as it is safe to do so.

    However, I have been on club rides too many times when people are riding double and triple file with cars behind them and simply don't care. NJ law does say that riders may ride double file as long as it does not impede the flow of traffic. Otherwise, they must single up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Every week or so, I get a city-slicker or country-kid in a pickup truck lay on their horn behind me just to be an @$$. Even if I'm on the shoulder or close in to the fogline. Like I say, I've had water bottle pitched in my direction and hit their mark.
    Some people just like to be a-holes, especially if they have a few drinks in them. I've never been unlucky enough to have anything thrown at me. Though I've been flipped the bird enough times for absolutely no reason.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  2. #27
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    I think we all have been forced to accept that there will always be ignorant pricks on the road. I admit I am shocked at the number of these turds that show up on the internet to post an insane comment on a tragic event like this.

    For whatever reason, some people can't seem to accept a bicycle sharing space with a car.

    And even those who are completely fine with cyclists, still pose a danger, especially if texting, drunk, or preoccupied for any reason.

    A 4000lb vehicle at 60mph passing 3ft away from a 200lb cyclist at 25mph will always be an inherently risky situation. Add in all of the other factors that make certain people dangerous drivers, and it is enough to make any sane person reconsider when and where they ride.






    Quote Originally Posted by romrah View Post
    +1 on this.. I do see a good 90% of the people making a effort but its always the small minority that cause the issue on both sides (view the dont be that guy thread). I just hope that the legal system actually works for the victims and their families in this case and that one of them had a camera running. Seen too many like this one that makes you wonder about things.

    Bike Cleveland upset driver not convicted of killing cyclists - wave3.com-Louisville News, Weather & Sports

  3. #28
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    So many good quotes in that statement that accurately convey my feeling on this topic:

    All too often the dangerous actions of people in cars are diminished, both through passive cultural means inherited over generations of car culture, and actively by those who attempt to shift the blame to the victims of crashes that could have been avoided if only people took the act of driving a 4000lbs vehicle capable of great destruction more seriously.
    Absolutely goddamned correct. This country has a serious problem with over-empowering drivers and forgiving deadly behavior from dangerous drivers. A small fraction of drivers act like they're above the law because the country allows them to believe that they are above the law.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    However, I have been on club rides too many times when people are riding double and triple file with cars behind them and simply don't care. NJ law does say that riders may ride double file as long as it does not impede the flow of traffic. Otherwise, they must single up.
    Hmmm, let us try to qualify the "issue" on both sides here...

    Cyclist Issue: Cyclists not complying with rules to ride single file, and thus impeding traffic to some extent.

    Consequence to motorist: Very small percentage of motorists must wait (typically less than 1 minute) to safely pass the cyclists.

    Motorist Issue: Motorist attempts to pass cyclists in an unsafe manner by riding too close to them.

    Cyclist consequence: Cyclist is injured or may be killed.


    Gee, which issue seems to be a much greater public safety concern?

  5. #30
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    "barely write a full sentence.".......you are being to generous with your comment.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nOOky View Post
    The usual idiotic comments below the report here:

    Five cyclists killed, four injured in Michigan car crash


    I'll out him. Looks like another disappointment from the Right...

    5 Cyclists Killed in MI by Pickup-screen-shot-2016-06-08-3.43.48-pm.png

  7. #32
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    My prayers and deepest condolences go out to the families.. Although they were not personal friends they are a part of our family and this is a tragic event for us all.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKatt View Post
    I'll out him. Looks like another disappointment from the Right...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I don't know what's more pathetic.

    People politicizing something like this, or the fact that this comment has 70 likes.

    I think I'll go with the former... (some peoples kids)...

  9. #34
    wim
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgan1819 View Post
    Do you have a link? This contradicts what the prosecuting attorney and witnesses stated on local television. Both stated the cyclists and driver were heading north, on a road call N. Westnedge.
    I read the head-on statements a few hours ago in the online Detroit Free Press, but they've been deleted. Apparently, they were in error.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I live in NJ too. Our laws say "as far to the right as is practicable" as well as "bike may use full lane". There are times when I will take the full lane for safety's sake. And yes, I have been horn blasted for doing this. But I am not willing to take the chance of getting doored by people in parked cars. I will give them room to pass me as soon as it is safe to do so.

    However, I have been on club rides too many times when people are riding double and triple file with cars behind them and simply don't care. NJ law does say that riders may ride double file as long as it does not impede the flow of traffic. Otherwise, they must single up.



    Some people just like to be a-holes, especially if they have a few drinks in them. I've never been unlucky enough to have anything thrown at me. Though I've been flipped the bird enough times for absolutely no reason.
    Great State of NJ here also. I think I have come to believe we have a different comparative context. We share our roads with a lot of people. Working around runners and other cyclists, kids, people that don't ride for enjoyment... All while dealing a lot of cars in a state with the same population density as India. I have never had anything thrown at me and I can count horn blasts and yelling incidents on one hand. Most drivers are very polite. Some "door handle" passes on al,out every ride, except early on weekends. We probably go 3 wide far more often than most people. Happens more times than I can count on almost any weekday ride. You just don't have a choice. I actually get compliments on my bike at lights pretty often. I get a wave, smile or acknowledgement from most everyone I have an interaction with. I say thank you for drivers being polite, even just for waiting stopped at a stop sign for me to pass and communicating that intention in some way, eye contact, a nod, whatever... I want them to have good interactions with a cyclist and know we are successfully sharing the road. I try hard to let the occasional di*k head stuff just roll off and stay focused on my ride.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    I don't know what's more pathetic.

    People politicizing something like this, or the fact that this comment has 70 likes.

    I think I'll go with the former... (some peoples kids)...

    Lol. With that avatar he's the one flying his brand. I'm just observing.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKatt View Post
    I'll out him. Looks like another disappointment from the Right...
    This is not just observing...

  13. #38
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    Ride in Taiwan. Totally different mindset on who to blame for hitting a biker or scooter rider. The car driver is nearly always responsible to take care of all medical bills and a payout to a family if bike rider is killed. In general if you hit a bike rider, it is your fault or at least partially at fault. Right or wrong, it does make motorist very aware of bikes and scooters.

  14. #39
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    The Kalamazoo community is stepping up and representing cyclists everywhere. They assembled 600+ riders on short notice, for a silent ride honoring the 5 killed and 4 injured yesterday.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1732473983657485

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgan1819 View Post
    I think we all have been forced to accept that there will always be ignorant pricks on the road.
    and Multi Use Trails.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    All while dealing a lot of cars in a state with the same population density as India.
    NJ and RI are the two most densely populated states. It also doesn't help that NJ has one of the highest motor vehicle to person ratios.

    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    I have never had anything thrown at me and I can count horn blasts and yelling incidents on one hand.
    Probably because you live in the less populated part of the state. I live in the densely populated northeast urban-suburban blob outside NYC. It seems as people are crowded together, they get more high-strung. I live 8 miles from the north NJ-NY border and ride into NY State a lot. Traffic is less as I ride north. They have their share of a-holes too, though not as many. It seems that my rude motorist encounters are more likely on my after work rides than any other time, less so on weekends when people are more relaxed.

    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Most drivers are very polite. I say thank you for drivers being polite, even just for waiting stopped at a stop sign for me to pass and communicating that intention in some way, eye contact, a nod, whatever...
    Same here. There are far more good encounters than bad. I am reminded of the line from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar "The evil that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with their bones". We are generally more likely to remember the bad things people do, than the good things. Unfortunately, the bad things tend to become ingrained in us far longer and stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    I want them to have good interactions with a cyclist and know we are successfully sharing the road. I try hard to let the occasional di*k head stuff just roll off and stay focused on my ride.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PBL450 again.
    Spot on PBL450!
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  17. #42
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    use a torque wrench

  18. #43
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    The bikes look like the driver didn't even slow down before the impact.

    5 Cyclists Killed in MI by Pickup-crash-800x539.jpg
    Too old to ride plastic

  19. #44
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    These two photos make me physically ill.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post


  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgan1819 View Post
    These two photos make me physically ill.
    You, me and probably most others here.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  21. #46
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    The majority of the riders were between 50-70 years old, who meet weekly for a casual evening ride. The 9 riders were most likely not pace lining, but more likely fairly spread out.

    I'm not a crash expert, but the damage to the truck makes it appear that it was traveling at a high rate of speed. The speed limit on that section of road was 35 mph.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgan1819 View Post
    The speed limit on that section of road was 35 mph.
    No way in hell this happened at 35mph. Steel hood creased in that far? Look like well over 50+. Makes me want to throw up. So depressing.

  23. #48
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    You are correct. The pictures of the truck above show the driver was traveling at a high rate of speed, in a 35mph zone no less.

    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    The bikes look like the driver didn't even slow down before the impact.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  24. #49
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    Are these the actual photos? All's I can say is "wow!". Looks like he hit a cement truck. He must have really been flying. Will be interesting to see what his BAC was. Hopefully he see some major time, but that wont have the families of those killed or injured. At times like these we cyclists post things like "stay safe out there", but the reality is there was probably nothing that the cyclists could have done to avoid this

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    No way in hell this happened at 35mph. Steel hood creased in that far? Look like well over 50+. Makes me want to throw up. So depressing.
    A little better than 40yrs ago I was hit by an automobile that the police estimated was moving at 70mph. This was an after the fact estimation. My bicycle had comparable damage to the white one at the top of the photo, and while there was only one of me compared to 9 of them, the car that hit me didn't have anything close to the damage that that truck sustained.

    Another thing is that people just don't call in reckless driving unless it is extreme which, combined with my experience, leads me to believe that this driver was speeding at closer to 100 than to 50mph.
    Too old to ride plastic

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