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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man View Post
    Yes,, what I meant was proving it in court. The accident was in the morning and I think he was arrested around 10pm. Even if BAC was above the legal limit he could just say he was drinking at home. It might be best if the public can't blame it on alcohol because he is now like all other drivers and not part of an un-talked about and looked down upon group of law breakers.
    Excellent point.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    So wait, and man and a women didn't throw a bike at his car? I hope he doesn't, but this guy really should shut up and hire a lawyer
    Nope...no one threw a bike at his car...but: "I feel very badly for the gentleman who collided with me..."

    Really??? The video I saw didn't not show the angle of the "gentleman" colliding with anything. I saw a car run into (or collide) a guy on a bike.

    That's a bit of self-serving spin to put it mildly.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    Nope...no one threw a bike at his car...but: "I feel very badly for the gentleman who collided with me..."

    Really??? The video I saw didn't not show the angle of the "gentleman" colliding with anything. I saw a car run into (or collide) a guy on a bike.

    That's a bit of self-serving spin to put it mildly.
    The driver is a sociopath scumbag and he is doing everything he can to cast doubt on this being an intentional act. As a few posters already said, most insurance companies would balk at paying out on something like this. This guy likely realized or was told his exposure and he is now trying really hard to make sure his Ins Co. doesn't have a strong case to deny a claim. I about puked when he said how the victim collided with him. What a sick POS to act like he was in any way a victim.

  4. #79
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    The definition of intentional act for insurance purposes is very different from the way the term is used on this board. Based on the video, no insurance company is going to stand on an "intentional act" as a reason to refuse to honor the policy terms

    You may remember that a press car did the same thing a couple of years ago at the tour.

    Leaving the scene of the accident and lying to the police are not reasons to refuse liability protection, but they are reasons to not renew his policy.

    I suspect alcohol plays a part. A person with a responsible position becomes a part time employee is a clue. Also leaving the scene and making up a ridiculous story is another suspicious factor. Also the schools immediate reaction was to suspend him points to someone who already has work issues.

    Back to insurance, sometimes companies have to handle claims on behalf of people they wish they did not insure. Good thing. If they could deny this claim as an international act the cyclist would not have a good chance of compensation

  5. #80
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    I'm no lawyer, but you'd have a tough time proving intent without evidence preceding the video. He can easily argue that he moved over to pass the camera guy and didn't see and hit the other rider. Not that that excuses anything, the claimed reason you hit someone doesn't matter, you're still at fault, and then his actions after are damming. I hope they throw the book at him, but I'm never confident any rider who is hit ever gets justice. They often are the ones who are fined.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by harryman View Post
    I'm no lawyer, but you'd have a tough time proving intent without evidence preceding the video.
    Thought the initial news report said the car almost hit riders further back on the road.

    Once is an accident. Twice (on the same road, same day, close in time) starts to look more like something more than "Oops, I hit one of those annoying spandex people that make my drive take 8 more seconds".

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by crit_boy View Post
    Thought the initial news report said the car almost hit riders further back on the road.

    Once is an accident. Twice (on the same road, same day, close in time) starts to look more like something more than "Oops, I hit one of those annoying spandex people that make my drive take 8 more seconds".
    Even if it really were an accident, leaving the scene is still a crime when bodily injury is involved. Leaving the scene will also lessen the possibility any jury will believe it was a true accident.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    Chance are that the driver was trying to give the rider a "brush back" to show him who is boss, and miscalculated the clearance. The penalty for this should be death by fire.
    This exactly. I've come to the conclusion that many people extend their mental body image/awareness to their entire vehicle when driving so they think they can just shove someone aside to get past with their car like they can with their hand or body when in a crowd. They don't appreciate the difference in physics. This isn't an excuse, just an explanation about why I think some motorists don't think brush-back or "punishment" passes are not big deal and don't appreciate the imminent and severe threat to life and limb that they represent.

    Of course, some people, like this guy, are just a**h0les.
    Last edited by OldChipper; 07-14-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by harryman View Post
    I'm no lawyer, but you'd have a tough time proving intent without evidence preceding the video. He can easily argue that he moved over to pass the camera guy and didn't see and hit the other rider.
    At worst he is looking at intentional harm, but at best it's distracted driving. You know the prosecutor is going to grill him on why he couldn't safely pass the cyclists when the white F-150 had no trouble.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    This exactly. I've come to the conclusion that many people extend their mental body image/awareness to their entire vehicle when driving so they think they can just shove someone aside to get past with their car like they can with their hand or body when in a crowd. They don't appreciate the difference in physics. This isn't an excuse, just an explanation about why I think some motorists don't think brush-back or "punishment" passes are not big deal and don't appreciate the imminent and severe threat to life and limb that they represent.
    Unless the driver is a small child or had severe developmental disability, this excuse would be a pretty lame one and wouldn't last longer than 10 seconds in a court of law.

    In legal terms, there is what is known as "a reasonable person". In other words, what a reasonable person would understand.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
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    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Unless the driver is a small child or had severe developmental disability, this excuse would be a pretty lame one and wouldn't last longer than 10 seconds in a court of law.

    In legal terms, there is what is known as "a reasonable person". In other words, what a reasonable person would understand.
    You beat me to it. I wasn't going to say pretty much the same thing. This is all very interesting in a theoretical kind of way, but I really don't care and neither does criminal or tort law. His inability to control his emotions and his vehicle resulted in a human being on a bicycle being hit by a car when it was completely unnecessary and preventable. There will be legal consequences unless the injured cyclist doesn't file anything and/or court does not do it's job. The latter would likely be remedied on appeal. He's already pretty much screwed regardless of what he says at this point, there's video...

    He will find it difficult to defend himself against the hit and run charges let alone the civil claims if they are filed...

    On the criminal side, he will likely at least be dealing with the hit and run charge and probably reckless driving. Given the publicity the incident has received, I bet the DA/U.S. Atty/prosecutor ends up charging him with even more....

    Tennessee Reckless Driving Penalties | stegall-law
    Last edited by Rashadabd; 07-14-2017 at 12:35 PM.
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  12. #87
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    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  13. #88
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    On the civil side, scroll to the bottom and take a look at some of these verdicts and settlements. Keep in mind, there most likely wasn't video or eye witness testimony from multiple parties in some of these cases. He is in bad shape. The law doesn't allow for what he did under any circumstances.

    https://terrellhogan.com/results/
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Unless the driver is a small child or had severe developmental disability, this excuse would be a pretty lame one and wouldn't last longer than 10 seconds in a court of law.

    In legal terms, there is what is known as "a reasonable person". In other words, what a reasonable person would understand.
    Are you guys reading-impaired????? I ***EXPLICITLY*** said: "This isn't an excuse"!!!!!!

    This is just my attempt to "understand" or get inside the head of people who do this stuff and who I'm sure face-to-face would NEVER even consider using deadly force against someone.

    There is NO ***EXCUSE*** for this behavior, and even less for this specific case. I'm simply trying to understand it. If we can understand the mindset that leads otherwise "normal" people to do things like brush-back/punishment passes, we're one step closer to solving it. Just calling them a$$holes does nothing - even if people like this guy clearly are.
    Well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion man. - The Dude

  15. #90
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    I just give them the #1 finger... nothing else to say.
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    Are you guys reading-impaired????? I ***EXPLICITLY*** said: "This isn't an excuse"!!!!!!

    This is just my attempt to "understand" or get inside the head of people who do this stuff and who I'm sure face-to-face would NEVER even consider using deadly force against someone.

    There is NO ***EXCUSE*** for this behavior, and even less for this specific case. I'm simply trying to understand it. If we can understand the mindset that leads otherwise "normal" people to do things like brush-back/punishment passes, we're one step closer to solving it. Just calling them a$$holes does nothing - even if people like this guy clearly are.
    Settle down, dude! Can't you tell I'm preaching to the choir?

    And don't try to understand the mind of a sociopath. It is pointless. They guy obviously had many loose screws and whatever he was under the influence of didn't help for sure.

    Though I still think saying "many people" can't appreciate the difference in physics between being a motor vehicle operator and an pedestrian, would be wrong....accept maybe under the influence of a heavy dose of mind altering substances.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
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    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    I just give them the #1 finger... nothing else to say.
    Always a very bad idea. This can only trigger road rage. It doesn't matter if you are dead right, you are still DEAD.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
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    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  18. #93
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    Talk in this area has slowed a bit - the human attention span, but word is that area cyclists will show up for the hearing.
    Nashville and surrounding counties has grown so fast and have put many more things on the important list that public transportation, pedestrian, and cycling concerns have taken the back seat. I now see cars pack roads that I ride on which were almost empty 5 years ago. Safety is a huge concern on every road now. And now we have a hit and run one what would be considered the safest cycling road in middle Tennessee.
    Not all cycling lanes here are created equal. Some have a space barrier, some have a rumble strip, some don't, some are wide enough, and some aren't. The city just re-routed traffic on one road for a turn lane and moved the long standing bike lane from the right side to the left. Makes no sense, and the lane changes have cars fighting for space with the bikers. It's nuts! Nashville's new Mayor has no clue and is grooming the city for even more permanent residents and tourists... Nashville does suck now...

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    Are you guys reading-impaired????? I ***EXPLICITLY*** said: "This isn't an excuse"!!!!!!

    This is just my attempt to "understand" or get inside the head of people who do this stuff and who I'm sure face-to-face would NEVER even consider using deadly force against someone.

    There is NO ***EXCUSE*** for this behavior, and even less for this specific case. I'm simply trying to understand it. If we can understand the mindset that leads otherwise "normal" people to do things like brush-back/punishment passes, we're one step closer to solving it. Just calling them a$$holes does nothing - even if people like this guy clearly are.
    It's a beautiful sentiment, but it doesn't always work. It's like saying gaining a better understanding of rapists, will stop rape. It's usually a lot more complex than that unfortunately.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    This exactly. I've come to the conclusion that many people extend their mental body image/awareness to their entire vehicle when driving so they think they can just shove someone aside to get past with their car like they can with their hand or body when in a crowd. They don't appreciate the difference in physics. This isn't an excuse, just an explanation about why I think some motorists don't think brush-back or "punishment" passes are not big deal and don't appreciate the imminent and severe threat to life and limb that they represent.

    Of course, some people, like this guy, are just a**h0les.
    This is somewhat related and fairly scary.

    https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/new...nt-pretty.html

  21. #96
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    Some of you are unbelievable: a jerk in a Volvo plows into a bike without even slowing in broad daylight on a dedicated recreational road, leaves the scene of the accident and then lies to the cops.

    Responses here:
    - "cyclist is in the middle of the road and is therefore asking to get hit!"
    - "cyclist was wearing black and is therefore invisible!"
    - "law says stay to the right, the right to road for cyclists is dependent and debatable!"

    Jesus. If we as cyclists can't understand the difference between mildly irritating drivers (within the law and on a recreational road) and assault with a deadly weapon, what hope do we have of convincing non-cyclists? Too many drivers are seemingly convinced that merely being in a car conveys special privileges to the driver and excuses extremely negligent and dangerous behavior, apparently many here agree. Others will inevitably say that it's more important to be safe that "right". This case IS NOT a question of "I'd rather be alive than right", this is simply inexcusable and indefensible.
    Last edited by Hiro11; 07-21-2017 at 10:32 AM.

  22. #97
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    Hiro,

    Your point is well taken and has been repeated in this thread that what this asshat did was totally inexcusable, regardless.

    However, I think the point that is being made by others that you vehemently object to is that quite often, we in the cycling community complain with unclean hands about the behavior of motorists, when our own behavior could stand to be better.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Hiro,

    Your point is well taken and has been repeated in this thread that what this asshat did was totally inexcusable, regardless.

    However, I think the point that is being made by others that you vehemently object to is that quite often, we in the cycling community complain with unclean hands about the behavior of motorists, when our own behavior could stand to be better.
    I agree. Too many cyclists ride like idiots, get in trouble and then blame drivers. However, I'm constraining my comments to this one case. In this case, it's unambiguous. People do legal-but-annoying things to me all the time. I don't get to shoot them.

  24. #99
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    Threats to life and limb demand a firm response. It's arguably the prime reason why laws and the legal system exist. Sure, some of our tribe may be idiotic, but when push comes to shove you gotta defend yourself. You have every right to pursue compensation for your injuries.
    Mapie is a conventional looking former Hollywood bon viveur, now leading a quiet life in a house made of wood by an isolated beach. He has cultivated a taste for culture, and is a celebrated raconteur amongst his local associates, who are artists, actors, and other leftfield/eccentric types. I imagine he has a telescope, and an unusual sculpture outside his front door. He is also a beach comber. The Rydster.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    This guy has a law degree. Doesn't he know he has the right to remain silent?
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