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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    None of the above. Get yourself a Canyon, specs are better than any of the above by far
    Yeah, just head down to the local Canyon dealer and take one out for a spin.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by eboos View Post
    Yeah, just head down to the local Canyon dealer and take one out for a spin.
    No you can just buy it using your iPad, put it together in 10 minutes and off you go. If you don’t like it, ship it back to them in 30 days no cost to you. Actually much easier than driving around to multiple bikes shops and best part about it all is you get WAY more for your money and the frames are top quality. Heck the Endurace came with top of the line 28 mm continental tires.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    No you can just buy it using your iPad, put it together in 10 minutes and off you go. If you don’t like it, ship it back to them in 30 days no cost to you. Actually much easier than driving around to multiple bikes shops and best part about it all is you get WAY more for your money and the frames are top quality. Heck the Endurace came with top of the line 28 mm continental tires.
    Don't get me wrong, I am pretty much sold on a Canyon as my next bike. I was joking earlier, but the buying experience is not for everyone, and the OP may benefit from dealing with a local shop that can sort out his fit and ensure he gets the comfort that he is looking for.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    No you can just buy it using your iPad, put it together in 10 minutes and off you go. If you don’t like it, ship it back to them in 30 days no cost to you. Actually much easier than driving around to multiple bikes shops and best part about it all is you get WAY more for your money and the frames are top quality. Heck the Endurace came with top of the line 28 mm continental tires.
    You can't get a fitting over the internet. If you buy a bike from a shop, you will get that service with the bike. Otherwise, the shop will charge you $100-200 for a fitting.

    Also, please tell me how someone who is buying their first road bike will put a boxed bike together in 10 minutes.

    Very bad advice.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  5. #30
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    Assuming you like all three and would be happy with any of the three, and all three will fit you, (suggest you get fit by a certified bike fitter, preferably not at the shop who sold you the bike) I would definitely get the Giant. The most versatile of the three and the best spec for the money.
    I like to ride fast.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by marathonrunner View Post
    Assuming you like all three and would be happy with any of the three, and all three will fit you, (suggest you get fit by a certified bike fitter, preferably not at the shop who sold you the bike) I would definitely get the Giant. The most versatile of the three and the best spec for the money.
    Do you mean like that $500 Guru fit? For most, that is overkill and probably not appropriate for a beginner anyway.

    A good shop will give you a good fitting with an emphasis on "good shop". There are some not so good shops who won't even watch you pedal on a trainer, but will just eyeball you and make approximations. That is not a good fitting.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    You can't get a fitting over the internet. If you buy a bike from a shop, you will get that service with the bike. Otherwise, the shop will charge you $100-200 for a fitting.

    Also, please tell me how someone who is buying their first road bike will put a boxed bike together in 10 minutes.

    Very bad advice.
    Okay I will walk you through step by step on how to put a Canyon bike together in 10 minutes.

    Step one is to unpackaged the bike-5 minutes
    Step two is to put the handlebars on- 3 minutes
    Step three is to put the seat post on- 2 minutes

    Any other questions?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    Okay I will walk you through step by step on how to put a Canyon bike together in 10 minutes.

    Step one is to unpackaged the bike-5 minutes
    Step two is to put the handlebars on- 3 minutes
    Step three is to put the seat post on- 2 minutes

    Any other questions?
    You must be a total pro.

    Unpackaging, there's a lot of crap/wrap to tear off. Install wheel after locating/adding skewer...
    Good chance those handlebars don't have bar tape on them. Are the shift levers where they should be on the bars? Probably not. Are all of the cable lengths optimal, anything need to be shortened? if you didn't get a 62 cm frame, then cables/housing probably too long.

    Have you figured out the stack that you want? Fiddle with the spaces above/below the stem. Need to cut the steerer tube?

    Install pedals.

    Start spinning thru the gears. yeah, I'm sure everything is dialed in right off the bat!
    Shifts perfectly, FD aligned perfectly, brake pads line up to the rims correctly.

    Oh yeah, gotta true those wheels.

    I suppose you could slap it together in 10 minutes to see if the bike is close to fitting you but......

    Hell, just taking off those annoying safety stickers, wheel reflectors and dork disk will take 10 minutes.

    Doing a quality build on a new bike takes time and skill.

    Now back to our regular scheduled programming.........

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vio1 View Post
    Is there any good reason to choose a carbon frame over aluminum?
    From bitter experience, go with aluminium.
    I "invested" £5k in a top end carbon bike, trek domane - never dropped the bike, it suffered a crack to a seat stay and Trek rejected the warranty claim saying it was accidental damage. "offered" me a repair program where i pay £1200 to repair it.
    I had read about this stuff before i purchased the bike but thought they were scare stories maybe where people had crashed or dropped things on the bikes or not looked after them. I should have taken heed. My bike was cherished, wiped down after every ride and never dropped.
    Titanium or steel every time.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogre View Post
    You must be a total pro.

    Unpackaging, there's a lot of crap/wrap to tear off. Install wheel after locating/adding skewer...
    Good chance those handlebars don't have bar tape on them. Are the shift levers where they should be on the bars? Probably not. Are all of the cable lengths optimal, anything need to be shortened? if you didn't get a 62 cm frame, then cables/housing probably too long.

    Have you figured out the stack that you want? Fiddle with the spaces above/below the stem. Need to cut the steerer tube?

    Install pedals.

    Start spinning thru the gears. yeah, I'm sure everything is dialed in right off the bat!
    Shifts perfectly, FD aligned perfectly, brake pads line up to the rims correctly.

    Oh yeah, gotta true those wheels.

    I suppose you could slap it together in 10 minutes to see if the bike is close to fitting you but......

    Hell, just taking off those annoying safety stickers, wheel reflectors and dork disk will take 10 minutes.

    Doing a quality build on a new bike takes time and skill.

    Now back to our regular scheduled programming.........
    maybe you need to introduce yourself to youtube or buy one yourself to see how easy it is to get rolling? I as a Canyon owner can 100% state with fact that the bike comes all dialed in, with bar tape and shifters all ready in place, the wheels trued and in my case with DI2 shifting charged.

    Go back to your Cartoon Network and leave the cycling discussion to the adults.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataunque View Post
    From bitter experience, go with aluminium.
    I "invested" £5k in a top end carbon bike, trek domane - never dropped the bike, it suffered a crack to a seat stay and Trek rejected the warranty claim saying it was accidental damage. "offered" me a repair program where i pay £1200 to repair it.
    I had read about this stuff before i purchased the bike but thought they were scare stories maybe where people had crashed or dropped things on the bikes or not looked after them. I should have taken heed. My bike was cherished, wiped down after every ride and never dropped.
    Titanium or steel every time.
    Hi ataunque,

    Before the RBR ad-motivated moderator police chime in to defend the carbon empire, and to totally discredit your story and attempt to blame you and/or say this is/was an anomaly in all things carbon frame-related, I am sorry that this happened to you. It totally stinks. Especially for those who baby and care for their frames like you obviously do.

    It is reading consistent stories like this over the years that provides the reason I still have not moved to any carbon frame. For my own riding, and racing kermesses, steel/ti/alu frames still rule. Especially since I am too old to be sponsored any longer. Carbon will get there on day, on a level with the other 3 frames, I truly believe this. But, even today, they still are not there.

    Again, sorry to hear Trek once again pulled their "not honoring" antic when it comes to carbon frames. The dealer who sold you that bike, should be massively ashamed they didn't stand up to Trek about this. I'd never frequent that particular shop again. Is it any wonder that Trek has such a bad word-of-mouth (along with Spesh) name over here in European large clubs with respect to their frame warranty honoring? Wonder too why it is rare to hear these types of stories from riders of Giant and/or Canyon and other carbon frame manufacturers?? They equally number the amount of people one sees on Trek and/or Spesh bikes. Canyon is just slaying Trek & Spesh here in the Belgian/Netherlands/Danish and German markets, and I don't even own one and/or have no skin in the game regarding carbon. How are they doing it??

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataunque View Post
    From bitter experience, go with aluminium.
    I "invested" £5k in a top end carbon bike, trek domane - never dropped the bike, it suffered a crack to a seat stay and Trek rejected the warranty claim saying it was accidental damage. "offered" me a repair program where i pay £1200 to repair it.
    I had read about this stuff before i purchased the bike but thought they were scare stories maybe where people had crashed or dropped things on the bikes or not looked after them. I should have taken heed. My bike was cherished, wiped down after every ride and never dropped.
    Titanium or steel every time.
    you already started a thread with your story, are you going to post the same story in every thread?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    maybe you need to introduce yourself to youtube or buy one yourself to see how easy it is to get rolling? I as a Canyon owner can 100% state with fact that the bike comes all dialed in, with bar tape and shifters all ready in place, the wheels trued and in my case with DI2 shifting charged.

    Go back to your Cartoon Network and leave the cycling discussion to the adults.
    actually, the others are right. If ever I chance to meet you and you offer me to take your bike for a spin, please remind me you only spent 10 minutes from box to riding, because I'd want to go over it first to make sure it's safe. A mechanic who knows what he's doing is gonna take at least around 45 minutes making sure he's got it all done correctly. Newbie following YouTube videos? At least a couple hours. Most brands try to say their bikes are ready to go out of the box, that's never the case.

    Certainly, for someone looking to buy their first bike, online is not the best way to go. Once they know what they like, what works for them, and what they are looking for, online bikes can be a decent option.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    None of the above. Get yourself a Canyon, specs are better than any of the above by far
    OP is a novice. The reason Canyon is cheaper is because they don't factor in the one on one advice and assistance, an LBS offers and which many beginners appreciate. OP if you are unsure enough of your choices from the three models you linked to, I think it's better to leave online purchasing until after you have ridden one of the three for a few years. The Giant is still my recommendation.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    Certainly, for someone looking to buy their first bike, online is not the best way to go. Once they know what they like, what works for them, and what they are looking for, online bikes can be a decent option.
    Logically correct but the problem is that so many bike shops don't know what they are doing so the in-person advantage is lost and some on-line vendors are actually really good assuming the buyer knows how to use a tape measure.

    It boils down to some places are good and some are bad and blanket statements of "bike shop" vs "on-line" don't tell the whole story.

  16. #41
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    One of the benefits of living in Belgium is that Canyon's huge, Europe-wide Service Center is located in Belgium. Also, it's main Headquarters (in Germany) is located about 50 mins from it close to the Belgian/German border. So, not having to deal with mail order, and no hassles from a dealer with conflicted interests either, I must confess has made me become more interested in Canyon bikes.

    But I honestly am not sure I would/could be interested if I wasn't living here. That's (ordering a bicycle via the web) is a tough nut to crack in keeping all customers happy & content.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataunque View Post
    From bitter experience, go with aluminium.
    I "invested" £5k in a top end carbon bike, trek domane - never dropped the bike, it suffered a crack to a seat stay and Trek rejected the warranty claim saying it was accidental damage. "offered" me a repair program where i pay £1200 to repair it.
    I had read about this stuff before i purchased the bike but thought they were scare stories maybe where people had crashed or dropped things on the bikes or not looked after them. I should have taken heed. My bike was cherished, wiped down after every ride and never dropped.
    Titanium or steel every time.
    Your point about Trek customer/warranty service is well taken. I know at least three people who had cracks develop in the downtubes of their more recent Trek OCLV frames without crashing, dropping off car or any other "abuse or misuse". Trek came back and denied warranty coverage. My shop has stopped selling Trek for this reason and other issues that are making Trek more difficult for a shop to deal with.

    That being said, this is not a good enough reason to shun all carbon bikes. Granted I have mixed feelings about carbon in general, but there are many good carbon bikes out there as well as many good Aluminum, Steel and Ti bikes.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    actually, the others are right. If ever I chance to meet you and you offer me to take your bike for a spin, please remind me you only spent 10 minutes from box to riding, because I'd want to go over it first to make sure it's safe. A mechanic who knows what he's doing is gonna take at least around 45 minutes making sure he's got it all done correctly. Newbie following YouTube videos? At least a couple hours. Most brands try to say their bikes are ready to go out of the box, that's never the case.

    Certainly, for someone looking to buy their first bike, online is not the best way to go. Once they know what they like, what works for them, and what they are looking for, online bikes can be a decent option.
    It should be pretty obvious by now that Jaggrin is nothing more than a troll looking for attention. Check out this thread for some of his other posts:

    How much better are carbon frames today?

    BTW, I've watched some of the You Tube wrenching videos which are cringe worthy at best. There are a few good You Tube videos, but just as many bad ham fisted ones. I saw one where this hack was tightening a bottom bracket by putting his entire weight on it - YIKES!

    Art's Cyclery has some excellent videos and I'm sure some other reputable bike shops as well as bike publications do too. But examine your source carefully. Viewer beware.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Your point about Trek customer/warranty service is well taken. I know at least three people who had cracks develop in the downtubes of their more recent Trek OCLV frames without crashing, dropping off car or any other "abuse or misuse". Trek came back and denied warranty coverage. My shop has stopped selling Trek for this reason and other issues that are making Trek more difficult for a shop to deal with.

    That being said, this is not a good enough reason to shun all carbon bikes. Granted I have mixed feelings about carbon in general, but there are many good carbon bikes out there as well as many good Aluminum, Steel and Ti bikes.
    Fwiw, Giant warrantied a carbon frame for a customer, and it may not have even been a true warranty issue (headset bearing race seized to inside of frame due to sweat, salty sea air, and regular power washing. Trying to get it out resulted in the bonded-in aluminum bearing retainer coming out of the frame). Giant took care of it, anyway. Also, many years ago, our Giant rep actually warrantied a part for a bike for a customer, and it wasn't even a Giant bike!
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    It should be pretty obvious by now that Jaggrin is nothing more than a troll looking for attention. Check out this thread for some of his other posts:

    How much better are carbon frames today?


    BTW, I've watched some of the You Tube wrenching videos which are cringe worthy at best. There are a few good You Tube videos, but just as many bad ham fisted ones. I saw one where this hack was tightening a bottom bracket by putting his entire weight on it - YIKES!

    Art's Cyclery has some excellent videos and I'm sure some other reputable bike shops as well as bike publications do too. But examine your source carefully. Viewer beware.
    Here is Lombard directing a newbie to purchase a Canyon. Talk about a troll!!!

    Noob Looking for a Bike; Have a Few in Mind

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    Here is Lombard directing a newbie to purchase a Canyon. Talk about a troll!!!

    Noob Looking for a Bike; Have a Few in Mind
    Nice job trying to twist my words around. I never said Canyons weren't good bikes. In that case, the OP had Canyon on his list. If you read all my posts in that thread, you would see that I recommended he get fitted.

    In this thread, the OP did not list a Canyon. You bait and switched him, then went on a rant about how any average Joe can unpack a boxed bike and be on the road with it in 10 minutes.

    Try again.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Nice job trying to twist my words around. I never said Canyons weren't good bikes. In that case, the OP had Canyon on his list. If you read all my posts in that thread, you would see that I recommended he get fitted.

    In this thread, the OP did not list a Canyon. You bait and switched him, then went on a rant about how any average Joe can unpack a boxed bike and be on the road with it in 10 minutes.

    Try again.
    Your words , not mine.

    To the OP, here is how easy it is to assemble a Canyon and save yourself a bunch of cash. See how easy it is? Don’t believe these posters who are trying to make ITP it to be something it’s not.

    Have a Trumptastic day!!!

    https://youtu.be/twITjO2i-qE

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    To the OP, here is how easy it is to assemble a Canyon and save yourself a bunch of cash. See how easy it is? Don’t believe these posters who are trying to make ITP it to be something it’s not.

    https://youtu.be/twITjO2i-qE
    I think the video is good for people like us who are mechanically inclined. That included torque wrench looks like it's a bit of a toy, but who am I to say it doesn't work?

    For a newbie who has never put a bike together in their life, there are a few things missing. Did you seen any details on how tight to make the quick releases? Also, the part about attaching the handlebar to the stem is incorrect. The spacing on the top and bottom should be equal, not the way they did this.

    And where is the magic fitter that I was expecting to pop out of the box when he opened it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    Have a Trumptastic day!!!
    Wrong forum. This belongs in P.O., not here. You should know the rules by now.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I think the video is good for people like us who are mechanically inclined. That included torque wrench looks like it's a bit of a toy, but who am I to say it doesn't work?

    For a newbie who has never put a bike together in their life, there are a few things missing. Did you seen any details on how tight to make the quick releases? Also, the part about attaching the handlebar to the stem is incorrect. The spacing on the top and bottom should be equal, not the way they did this.
    -Those type of torque wrenches are actually very good.
    -No I don't see details on how tight to make the QR. Nor have I ever heard of that being something bike shops routinely go over.
    -Don't know where you got the idea that spacers above should or need to equal spacers below but that's wrong.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    -Don't know where you got the idea that spacers above should or need to equal spacers below but that's wrong.
    I think you may have misunderstood what I said and I may have chosen my words wrong. I'm not talking about the spacers on the fork. I am talking about the gap above and below where the step clamp holds the handlebars on.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



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