Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 96
  1. #26
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fredrico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    22,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    As a general rule you can't ban types of transportation that otherwise legally exist. There are some who can't afford motor vehicles and as such, are relegated to bicycles or walking. Unless there is a robust public transportation infrastructure, this Bill can easily be struck down as discriminatory to poor people. No politician of any party wants that accusation leveled at them.
    Yep, federal transportation laws say roads must be open to all traffic, cars, farm tractors, bicycles, horses, carriages, walkers, as described for these back roads. Slower traffic gets out of the way for faster traffic when possible. If not, tough. If you want to get there fast, take the interstates. In TX one can ride a bike on the interstates outside urban areas. There's plenty of shoulder, albeit strewn with the detritus of steel belted truck tires.

    ISTEA, passed in the '90s, mandated paved shoulders on all federally marked highways as a condition to get fed funds to cover the cost. Consequently, there are many nice, smooth roads in the heartland with shoulders perfect for bicycles. We rode on a few of them regularly on club rides surrounding Tyler and Longview, TX. They were great, except on one. They put rumble strips down. Riders had to ride out in traffic to avoid hitting them.

    Here's the thing: In the late 90s some legislators in Austin submitted a bill banning cycling on farm to market roads outside Austin and I think in other parts of the state. Some influential farmers were having problems on weekends negotiating around large groups of cyclists out on their training rides. An advocacy group, forget which, got the word out and gave contact information on the legislators, imploring us to write letters of protest. I wrote my representative. He wrote back a nice letter, saying he too was a cyclist! He also said the blizzard of letters killed the bill.

    So write those naive legislators in MT. Tell them the roads are legally available to all, and that restricting movement of people on public roads is unconstitutional, especially when there is no alternate means of getting there. If sued in federal court such laws would be struck down. Go for it.

    It probably wouldn't take all that many letters to turn their heads around, especially if the sponsor is a motorcycle nut. Bonafide conflict of interest right there.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 01-21-2017 at 12:10 AM.

  2. #27
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,329
    Here is a pretty good read on this.

    Bill would ban bicyclists from most 2-lane roads in state | Montana Legislature | bozemandailychronicle.com

    It's one thing for this guy to talk about this. It's another thing completely to get it passed.

    As the article points out...

    "Routes used by the Adventure Cycling Association and the Bike and Build organization, as well as those used by all the major bicycling events in Montana, are for the most part on narrow two-lane roads, most of them without paved shoulders"

    " ...bicycle tourism across the state had an estimated economic impact of $377 million in 2014..."

    And then there is this...

    "Tussing and her husband, Ron Tussing, former Billings mayor and chief of police, now live near Alder, far enough from any town that she couldn’t leave her property on her bicycle without violating the provisions of Usher’s proposed bill."



  3. #28
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fredrico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    22,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    Here is a pretty good read on this.

    Bill would ban bicyclists from most 2-lane roads in state | Montana Legislature | bozemandailychronicle.com

    It's one thing for this guy to talk about this. It's another thing completely to get it passed.

    As the article points out...

    "Routes used by the Adventure Cycling Association and the Bike and Build organization, as well as those used by all the major bicycling events in Montana, are for the most part on narrow two-lane roads, most of them without paved shoulders"

    " ...bicycle tourism across the state had an estimated economic impact of $377 million in 2014..."

    And then there is this...

    "Tussing and her husband, Ron Tussing, former Billings mayor and chief of police, now live near Alder, far enough from any town that she couldn’t leave her property on her bicycle without violating the provisions of Usher’s proposed bill."


    Good read! Didn't realize how cycle touring has become a viable source of commerce in states like MT. They're quite progressive!

    In the 2015 legislative session, Barnes said, state law was amended to no longer require bicyclists to stay as far to the right of the roadway as possible. It now says bicyclists can travel in the driving lane, and that motorists can go over a double-yellow line in order to pass a bicyclist.

    Barnes said Bike Walk Montana would like to see a change in a state law that requires bicyclists to ride single-file. She said bicyclists riding two-abreast are more visible and can be passed by a motor vehicle more quickly than two bicyclists in a line. She said Montana is one of only two states that prohibit two people from bicycling side by side.


    Proper use of two lane blacktops!
    Last edited by Fredrico; 01-21-2017 at 01:02 AM.

  4. #29
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post

    So anyway, if you ask me, it's the cars and trucks you need to keep off of those narrow roads. The bikes and pedestrians and horses are what those roads were built to service, not the cars.
    Yes, but unfortunately, bikes, horses and pedestrians don't bring in any revenue through gas taxes. See where that goes?
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  5. #30
    Adorable Furry Hombre
    Reputation: Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    23,890
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Yes, but unfortunately, bikes, horses and pedestrians don't bring in any revenue through gas taxes. See where that goes?
    Thing is that in Montana state highways are almost entirely funded by the federal government. To the tune of 87% federal dollars.

    Because Montana's gasoline tax hasn't been adequate to fund roads for many many years, nor has it been raised.


    Gazette opinion: Montana running out of gas tax | Gazette Opinion | billingsgazette.com


    Since all of us federal tax-payers are paying for Montana's highways....what does it matter who uses them is gas powered or not?
    "‘Photograph me on horseback,’ wrote Teddy Roosevelt in 1908. ‘Tennis, no. And golf is fatal.’ "

  6. #31
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Yep, federal transportation laws say roads must be open to all traffic, cars, farm tractors, bicycles, horses, carriages, walkers, as described for these back roads. Slower traffic gets out of the way for faster traffic when possible. If not, tough. If you want to get there fast, take the interstates. In TX one can ride a bike on the interstates outside urban areas. There's plenty of shoulder, albeit strewn with the detritus of steel belted truck tires.

    ISTEA, passed in the '90s, mandated paved shoulders on all federally marked highways as a condition to get fed funds to cover the cost. Consequently, there are many nice, smooth roads in the heartland with shoulders perfect for bicycles. We rode on a few of them regularly on club rides surrounding Tyler and Longview, TX. They were great, except on one. They put rumble strips down. Riders had to ride out in traffic to avoid hitting them.

    Here's the thing: In the late 90s some legislators in Austin submitted a bill banning cycling on farm to market roads outside Austin and I think in other parts of the state. Some influential farmers were having problems on weekends negotiating around large groups of cyclists out on their training rides. An advocacy group, forget which, got the word out and gave contact information on the legislators, imploring us to write letters of protest. I wrote my representative. He wrote back a nice letter, saying he too was a cyclist! He also said the blizzard of letters killed the bill.

    So write those naive legislators in MT. Tell them the roads are legally available to all, and that restricting movement of people on public roads is unconstitutional, especially when there is no alternate means of getting there. If sued in federal court such laws would be struck down. Go for it.

    It probably wouldn't take all that many letters to turn their heads around, especially if the sponsor is a motorcycle nut. Bonafide conflict of interest right there.
    Do federal laws apply to non-federal roads that don't get federal funding? Municipal, county and state maintained roads? I think federal laws run something like states lose federal funding if they violate certain federal laws.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  7. #32
    Adorable Furry Hombre
    Reputation: Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    23,890
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Do federal laws apply to non-federal roads that don't get federal funding? Municipal, county and state maintained roads? I think federal laws run something like states lose federal funding if they violate certain federal laws.

    Except...Montana's state highways are overwhelmingly built with exactly federal dollars.


    Montanans are deadbeats who get 87% of their highway funding from the federal government. Because "smaller government" lets them get someone else to pick up the tab.
    "‘Photograph me on horseback,’ wrote Teddy Roosevelt in 1908. ‘Tennis, no. And golf is fatal.’ "

  8. #33
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Except...Montana's state highways are overwhelmingly built with exactly federal dollars.


    Montanans are deadbeats who get 87% of their highway funding from the federal government. Because "smaller government" lets them get someone else to pick up the tab.
    True. But what about the other 13% of their roads?
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  9. #34
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fredrico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    22,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    True. But what about the other 13% of their roads?
    I don't think these what would be called secondary roads have to meet federal guidelines with respect to paved shoulders. Many of them don't if you look around. The federally marked highways, the main routes connecting towns, have to have shoulders paved the same as the roadway, expressly for the purpose of accommodating bicycles and other slow moving vehicles.

    The secondary roads with no paved shoulders still have to be open to horses, farm tractors and bicyclists, though, if people live alongside them and they're used by the public to get somewhere, such as the 2 lane blacktops in the bill, or the farm to market roads in TX. This is why the TX bill was killed. It would have been struck down in court if cyclist's decided to sue for access.

  10. #35
    Cycling 4 the fun of it.
    Reputation: Cyclist69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    324
    I don't know of a place where this has happened.

    I do know Illinois; has just passed a law giving cyclists all the same privileges as automobilist. The right of way and stuff so, I don't think this would happen here. SH*T. Country backroads are about all we have other than rail trails.
    Sycamore Area Cycling

    TREK 2.3c (Road)
    MASI Custom (Coffee Bike)
    Mercier (Gravel Bike)
    Diamondback Overdrive Pro (MTB)

  11. #36
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    52
    Very Republican North Dakota allows bicycles on the Interstate system, and all other roads. The entire bicycle code fits on a page, and it boils down to "don't be an idiot". But be warned. If you do violate any section of it you are subject to our state's severe penalties:
    "Any person who violates any of the provisions of this chapter may be
    assessed a fee not to exceed five dollars."

  12. #37
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by DangerousDan View Post
    Very Republican North Dakota allows bicycles on the Interstate system, and all other roads. The entire bicycle code fits on a page, and it boils down to "don't be an idiot". But be warned. If you do violate any section of it you are subject to our state's severe penalties:
    "Any person who violates any of the provisions of this chapter may be
    assessed a fee not to exceed five dollars."
    LOL! I understand some of the interstate highways in the Heartland are one lane in each direction. I did not know bikes were allowed on any interstate highway.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  13. #38
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    4,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Except...Montana's state highways are overwhelmingly built with exactly federal dollars.


    Montanans are deadbeats who get 87% of their highway funding from the federal government. Because "smaller government" lets them get someone else to pick up the tab.
    Maybe part of the issue is that its a very large state with a population of only 1 million people (3rd lowest density in US) and lots of miles of highway. I am not sure that makes them deadbeats.

  14. #39
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    52
    I don't know about elsewhere, but the Interstates in ND are major national haulage roads. I94 is the main road between Portland or Seattle and Chicago. North South, I29 Runs from the border near Winterpeg, past the Air Force base in Grand Forks, and on down to Kansas City. Both are at least 2 lanes in each direction for their entire length.

  15. #40
    Pooped a refrigerator.
    Reputation: SauronHimself's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    6,590
    If such a ridiculous bill got passed, I can see this being challenged immediately in a high court.
    Ghurarmu shirkush’ agh azgushu. Zant ya apakurizak. Gûl-n’ anakhizak.

  16. #41
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: PBL450's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,599
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    Maybe part of the issue is that its a very large state with a population of only 1 million people (3rd lowest density in US) and lots of miles of highway. I am not sure that makes them deadbeats.
    Agreed, I think freeloader is more accurate. I come from one of the 3 states that pay the most for their highways. We subsidize the feeloaders in this and in so many other ways.
    If I knew then what I know now, I woulda done it anyway.

  17. #42
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    We are discussing this over on BF today...there's also a thread on /r. For those curious, here's the actual law: http://leg.mt.gov/bills/2017/lchtml/LC2196.htm

    I presume Montana is like Nebraska. Most state highways are two-lane, and due to lack of tax-base to fund roads almost no state highways have shoulders (be they paved or "soft"). Which basically means, cyclists are banned outside city limits on road (since Interstate highways are automatically out).


    I know a few guys locally who refuse to ride on roads without shoulders....and within 60 miles of Lincoln there are maybe 2 paved roads/highways.
    Does your statute actually state that interstate highways are forbidden? This is written into statute in New England. Otherwise you can ride on the interstate.

    Bill

  18. #43
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    52
    Before this thread gets moved to the "Politics Only" section let me point out a couple of things.

    1) The initial act authorizing the interstate highways is known as the "National Interstate and Defense Highways Act" and that Montana happens to have Malmstrom AFB near Great Falls. Right off I-15.
    The DOD wants a way to haul missiles and parts in by ground. That is why I-15 goes where it goes. I-29 goes near Grand Forks AFB. It is not a coincidence.

    2) If you drive I-94 across Montana and North Dakota you will see a lot of truck haulage going between the big ports in the pacific northwest and places east like Chicago. We in ND benefit from I-94, but people in Chicago do as well.
    Also, stuff going from the Seattle area to those bases goes over I-94.

    3) ND and MT alone could get by with one lane roads. Most of the way is flat and straight. Highway 2 from Grand Forks to Williston is a great example. You can drive it at 70 without a problem.
    The two uses listed above require much biger roads. And last time I checked, I pay some of those "Federal" taxes when I do put diesel in the car.

  19. #44
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fredrico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    22,157
    Quote Originally Posted by the_doctor View Post
    Does your statute actually state that interstate highways are forbidden? This is written into statute in New England. Otherwise you can ride on the interstate.

    Bill
    On the interstates in ETX, signs at the entrance ramps said "No bicycles" if they didn't want them. This only in heavily trafficked urban areas, and we could ride on the old routes laid down before the interstates, most of them with paved shoulders. These were the most interesting roads to explore by bike. They went through the towns and past the fast food joints. Most of the time they weren't all that heavily trafficked.

    Where a buddy and I entered I-20 in Longview, there were no restrictive notices. We did a ride over to the LA border and back, about 65 miles, quicker than jack rabbits. The 70 mph semis just sucked us along in their drafts. We were doing 22-25 mph much of the time. It also could have gotten us killed! Never again!

  20. #45
    Adorable Furry Hombre
    Reputation: Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    23,890
    Quote Originally Posted by the_doctor View Post
    Does your statute actually state that interstate highways are forbidden? This is written into statute in New England. Otherwise you can ride on the interstate.

    Bill

    "No bicycles" posted on all on ramps.

    Of course, with how crazy people drive, you'd have to be brain damaged to want to ride I-80 on a bike anyway. Especially in high Summer, when the Great Plains winds pick up.
    "‘Photograph me on horseback,’ wrote Teddy Roosevelt in 1908. ‘Tennis, no. And golf is fatal.’ "

  21. #46
    Mountain bike guide
    Reputation: Silentfoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    81
    You can typically ride on Interstate highways if there is no other route. Once you get to a town you'll see signs that say bicyclists must exit. Then you have to take surface streets or frontage roads until the last exit back on to the Interstate.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah.

  22. #47
    Adorable Furry Hombre
    Reputation: Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    23,890
    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    You can typically ride on Interstate highways if there is no other route. Once you get to a town you'll see signs that say bicyclists must exit. Then you have to take surface streets or frontage roads until the last exit back on to the Interstate.

    Nope. Prohibited at all times on freeways and interstate in Nebraska.

    Nebraska Legislature


    I'm surprised riding a bicycle on an Interstate is legal anywhere, considering it is tantamount to suicide. But then again I was surprised by MO not painting lanes or fog-lines on state highways (due to budget cuts) either.
    "‘Photograph me on horseback,’ wrote Teddy Roosevelt in 1908. ‘Tennis, no. And golf is fatal.’ "

  23. #48
    Mountain bike guide
    Reputation: Silentfoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Nope. Prohibited at all times on freeways and interstate in Nebraska.

    Nebraska Legislature
    "Typically"
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah.

  24. #49
    Know-nothing New Guy
    Reputation: 73mountaineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    "Typically"
    I have yet to live in a state that allows cyclists on interstates, and I have lived in several. I would say it is more "atypical", in my experience anyway.

  25. #50
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fredrico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    22,157
    Quote Originally Posted by 73mountaineer View Post
    I have yet to live in a state that allows cyclists on interstates, and I have lived in several. I would say it is more "atypical", in my experience anyway.
    I haven't either, east of the Appalachians. There's a great network of secondary roads going everywhere. Never any reason to use the interstates. But in the vast plains of the midwest, on sparsely trafficked interstates on flat land that goes for miles, it probably isn't that dangerous.

    Come to think of it, all of ETX has the same grid of nice paved two lane roads, many with paved shoulders, and yet they still let cyclists on their interstates.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Disc Brake Road Bikes Banned at French Sportive Rides
    By MMsRepBike in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-20-2016, 08:33 AM
  2. My Bikes Have Been Banned
    By Steelguy in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 03-31-2012, 07:05 AM
  3. Stevens Bikes Hit the Roads of NJ
    By nickt30 in forum New York - New Jersey
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-13-2011, 03:14 AM
  4. Missouri County Considers Biking Ban on Rural Roads
    By PdxMark in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-13-2010, 07:53 PM
  5. Dirt Roads & Road Bikes. Yay or Nay?
    By Einstruzende in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-25-2004, 07:28 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •