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  1. #51
    Know-nothing New Guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    I haven't either, east of the Appalachians. There's a great network of secondary roads going everywhere. Never any reason to use the interstates. But in the vast plains of the midwest, on sparsely trafficked interstates on flat land that goes for miles, it probably isn't that dangerous.

    Come to think of it, all of ETX has the same grid of nice paved two lane roads, many with paved shoulders, and yet they still let cyclists on their interstates.
    Fair point. I honestly couldn't remember if SD allowed cyclists on their interstate, but a quick Google search says they do, unless specifically prohibited, so I need to fact check myself too. That is one state that I have lived in that did allow it, I was just ignorant to it at the time.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 73mountaineer View Post
    I have yet to live in a state that allows cyclists on interstates, and I have lived in several. I would say it is more "atypical", in my experience anyway.
    Looked up TX. Access to their interstates is assumed, unless prohibited, and clearly marked with "traffic control device," a sign at the entrance ramps.

    FAQ - Bicycles, Pedestrians and the Law

    The Texas Transportation Commission by resolution or order recorded in its minutes may prohibit the use of a limited-access or controlled-access highway under the jurisdiction of the commission by a parade, funeral procession, pedestrian, bicycle, electric bicycle, motor-driven cycle, or non-motorized traffic.

    If the commission adopts a rule prohibiting the use of bikes on such a roadway, the commission shall erect and maintain official traffic-control devices on the portions of the limited-access or controlled-access highway to which the rule applies. Tex. Transp. Code § 545.065.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 01-22-2017 at 12:26 AM.

  3. #53
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    In Washington State, it's legal to ride on all roads and highways with a few exceptions in the heavily populated areas.

    https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/bike/closed.htm

    Doing so would be crazy, but that's just me...

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aadub View Post
    Hey I'm fairly red-neck right wing, but this is crap and has nothing to do with either, it's senseless! Pedal bikes are more a part of transportation than some noisy Harley!
    I hear you, but at the same time, whenever you see one of these kinds of laws they are ALWAYS introduced by Republicans. Likewise it is ALWAYS Republicans that seek to defund any bicycle or pedestrian infrastructure. It's in their national party platform.

    These kinds of laws get introduced fairly regularly, but they have never passed into law in any state.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aadub View Post
    Pedal bikes are more a part of transportation than some noisy Harley!
    Actually, stock Harleys are surprisingly quiet. It's what many in the "culture" do to them afterwards, bypassing their mufflers so they can feel all bad@$$. As I've always said, the smaller a man's Richard is, the louder his motorcycle.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerousDan View Post
    Before this thread gets moved to the "Politics Only" section let me point out a couple of things.

    1) The initial act authorizing the interstate highways is known as the "National Interstate and Defense Highways Act" and that Montana happens to have Malmstrom AFB near Great Falls. Right off I-15.
    The DOD wants a way to haul missiles and parts in by ground. That is why I-15 goes where it goes. I-29 goes near Grand Forks AFB. It is not a coincidence.

    2) If you drive I-94 across Montana and North Dakota you will see a lot of truck haulage going between the big ports in the pacific northwest and places east like Chicago. We in ND benefit from I-94, but people in Chicago do as well.
    Also, stuff going from the Seattle area to those bases goes over I-94.

    3) ND and MT alone could get by with one lane roads. Most of the way is flat and straight. Highway 2 from Grand Forks to Williston is a great example. You can drive it at 70 without a problem.
    The two uses listed above require much biger roads. And last time I checked, I pay some of those "Federal" taxes when I do put diesel in the car.
    Military transportation infrastructure is a fraction of the federal welfare that econocally unsuccessful states consume. I think Marc's point is the irony of states boasting less government are freeloading off of economically successful states who actually pay for "smaller government" policies. We also require a significant military transportation infrastructure. My next door neighbor is a large Naval Weapons Station. There is a very large joint base an hour away. And we still pay more.

    The states the most and least dependent on the federal government - Business Insider
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Actually, stock Harleys are surprisingly quiet. It's what many in the "culture" do to them afterwards, bypassing their mufflers so they can feel all bad@$$. As I've always said, the smaller a man's Richard is, the louder his motorcycle.
    so you've researched this?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    so you've researched this?

    Here's some data

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ6SstTS4YY

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Military transportation infrastructure is a fraction of the federal welfare that econocally unsuccessful states consume. I think Marc's point is the irony of states boasting less government are freeloading off of economically successful states who actually pay for "smaller government" policies. We also require a significant military transportation infrastructure. My next door neighbor is a large Naval Weapons Station. There is a very large joint base an hour away. And we still pay more.

    The states the most and least dependent on the federal government - Business Insider
    The question is is Montana less productive economically because its its politics or does it have to do more with its very low population density, limited industry (agriculture its is main source of revenue), and harsh weather. Its not like Montana is filled with one-percenters who refuse to pay their fair share

    Also note that 50% of Montana's landmass is owned by the Federal Government.

  10. #60
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    Positive progess:

    Here's an official statement from Rep. Barry Usher regarding LC2196. Please share this with everyone you know. Even though the draft bill is still on the legislative website, he will not be moving that forward as he indicates below:

    "I want to update you on the exciting progress of Montana House LC2196! Since the bill draft had not yet been introduced, I have pulled it back in order to draft a bill that will address the concerns that I have heard from you.

    My intent has and remains roadway safety and I appreciate all of the great feedback, ideas and suggestions I have received to improve safety for bicyclists and pedestrians. I am currently working with Bike Walk Montana, Cycle Greater Yellowstone and other bicycle advocacy groups in a positive direction to re-write this proposed bill, with NO BICYCLE OR PEDESTRIAN RESTRICTIONS.

    At this point, we do not have any specifics we can share but will soon. We believe that this great group of safety minded advocates will come up with something to further enhance bicycle and pedestrian safety in the great state of Montana."

    Barry M. Usher
    Representative
    Montana House District 40

    And this:

    Update from Melinda Barnes, ED Bike Walk MT:
    Hi all-

    Barry Usher is now my new best friend and we’re working together, exploring other options for a bill draft, including the possibility of establishing a state bike/ped board, instead of a bill to restrict bicyclists and pedestrians. He’s trying to set up a meeting with someone at Commerce for us to talk with and he’s drafted a public statement we’re finalizing to send out far and wide. It has taken a very positive turn!!

    HB-267 is being heard tomorrow afternoon. It is really, really important that you send word through all of your networks urging people to contact the members of the committee. Here is an easy link where people can email all of the committee members at once. Contact a Montana Legislator

    HB-225 (the funding bill) is scheduled to be heard by the Local Government Committee Thursday at 3pm. If you or someone you know are able to come and testify, please let me know. It is always good to have people outside of Helena come.

    Melinda Barnes
    Executive Director
    Bike Walk Montana
    PO Box 584
    Helena, MT 59624
    406-449-2787
    melinda@bikewalkmontana.org

  11. #61
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    Closing *most* roads to cyclists in the name of "Safety" is paramount to turning off your laptop to improve 'Security'. Is it more secure? Well, yea, but what's the point of having it?

    Anyway, it sounds like Mr. Usher has heard from a large number of his cycling voter base, and may be having second thoughts. Good news.

  12. #62
    Mountain bike guide
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    Nice to have "friends".
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah.

  13. #63
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    hope for the folks in this state they just bring in a 3-4 foot to pass rule and leave it at that

  14. #64
    wim
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    Most states allow local jurisdictions to restrict road usage as they see fit. It's possible (I'm too lazy right now to look into this) that Montana is among them. In short, statutes enabling a ban may already on the books.

    I have to add that such local ordinances can be contentious as well. A case involving a Colorado town banning cyclists from certain streets dragged through the courts for a long time before the cyclists finally prevailed.
    Last edited by wim; 01-23-2017 at 05:21 AM.

  15. #65
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    I saw this on https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...on/qiJvt9wlwzg...


    Here's an official statement from Rep. Barry Usher regarding LC2196. Please share this with everyone you know. Even though the draft bill is still on the legislative website, he will not be moving that forward as he indicates below:

    "I want to update you on the exciting progress of Montana House LC2196! Since the bill draft had not yet been introduced, I have pulled it back in order to draft a bill that will address the concerns that I have heard from you. My intent has and remains roadway safety and I appreciate all of the great feedback, ideas and suggestions I have received to improve safety for bicyclists and pedestrians. I am currently working with Bike Walk Montana, Cycle Greater Yellowstone and other bicycle advocacy groups in a positive direction to re-write this proposed bill, with NO BICYCLE OR PEDESTRIAN RESTRICTIONS. At this point, we do not have any specifics we can share but will soon. We believe that this great group of safety minded advocates will come up with something to further enhance bicycle and pedestrian safety in the great state of Montana."
    Barry M. Usher
    Representative
    Montana House District 40
    Too old to ride plastic

  16. #66
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    It will suck if your truck will not start as the roads will be illegal to use without one. That will also put an end to a country kid riding his bike to school.
    Last edited by BikeLayne; 01-23-2017 at 08:06 AM.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    LOL Montana, like most rural states, doesn't have any money for that. It has a nice hefty projected budget shortfall for 2017.

    States like Missouri don't even have money to paint lane-lines and fog-lines on their state highways. MO in fact is distinguished as having the most miles of minimum maintenance road of any state in the union. Goes without saying that their roads suck.
    I'm the last guy who would defend the State of Missouri, "The Hate State", as I call it, but I've been riding here for over 40 years and the roads are no worse than Illinois, were I ride regularly, or just about anyplace else I've ridden. And I've ridden a lot of places.
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  18. #68
    JSR
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    Moonwalking, as performed by a politician.

    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I saw this on https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...on/qiJvt9wlwzg...


    Here's an official statement from Rep. Barry Usher regarding LC2196. Please share this with everyone you know. Even though the draft bill is still on the legislative website, he will not be moving that forward as he indicates below:

    "I want to update you on the exciting progress of Montana House LC2196! Since the bill draft had not yet been introduced, I have pulled it back in order to draft a bill that will address the concerns that I have heard from you. My intent has and remains roadway safety and I appreciate all of the great feedback, ideas and suggestions I have received to improve safety for bicyclists and pedestrians. I am currently working with Bike Walk Montana, Cycle Greater Yellowstone and other bicycle advocacy groups in a positive direction to re-write this proposed bill, with NO BICYCLE OR PEDESTRIAN RESTRICTIONS. At this point, we do not have any specifics we can share but will soon. We believe that this great group of safety minded advocates will come up with something to further enhance bicycle and pedestrian safety in the great state of Montana."
    Barry M. Usher
    Representative
    Montana House District 40

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I saw this on https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...on/qiJvt9wlwzg...


    Here's an official statement from Rep. Barry Usher regarding LC2196. Please share this with everyone you know. Even though the draft bill is still on the legislative website, he will not be moving that forward as he indicates below:

    "I want to update you on the exciting progress of Montana House LC2196! Since the bill draft had not yet been introduced, I have pulled it back in order to draft a bill that will address the concerns that I have heard from you. My intent has and remains roadway safety and I appreciate all of the great feedback, ideas and suggestions I have received to improve safety for bicyclists and pedestrians. I am currently working with Bike Walk Montana, Cycle Greater Yellowstone and other bicycle advocacy groups in a positive direction to re-write this proposed bill, with NO BICYCLE OR PEDESTRIAN RESTRICTIONS. At this point, we do not have any specifics we can share but will soon. We believe that this great group of safety minded advocates will come up with something to further enhance bicycle and pedestrian safety in the great state of Montana."
    Barry M. Usher
    Representative
    Montana House District 40
    See post #60 above ;)

    Bikes banned on rural roads?

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    Moonwalking, as performed by a politician.
    Indeed. If only he had started with a meeting between the interested parties, all this bad publicity could have been avoided. But I guess the severity of the proposal lit a fire and got some serious discussion going, which is was a great surprise.

    I do give him credit though. Not everyone is willing to eat crow like that and still work towards a better solution. I reserve my right to dispute the ultimate proposal, but signs seem to point in a much better direction now.

    He may have been honest when declaring safety as his real concern in the beginning. I completely doubted it with such an insane proposal in the beginning.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
    See post #60 above ;)

    Bikes banned on rural roads?
    Sorry about the repeat, I did a quick scan before my post, thinking I saw it here also, but missed your earlier post in that scan.
    Too old to ride plastic

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    This is going to suck for all six of Montana's cyclists.
    Which would include Levi Leipheimer, (part time resident) Greg Lemond, and probably quite a few folks on the Ride The Divide tour.
    Last edited by dir-t; 01-23-2017 at 10:44 AM.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    Sorry about the repeat, I did a quick scan before my post, thinking I saw it here also, but missed your earlier post in that scan.
    LOL,NP

    As a Montanan, I appreciate the effort

    Cheers.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    Don't know nothing about their IQ's, but as a cyclist I'm treated fairly by most HD riders around here. I haven't been buzzed by one, have spoken while waiting a light and have even been waved to as a brother on two wheels. Haven't received that kind of respect by anyone on a crotch rocket.
    Huh, that is interesting. When I lived in Vegas it was just the opposite. Never had a problem the sport bike guys but there were numerous times where I was buzzed by some Harley clown. I also saw it done to women. It wasn't all Harley riders. The normal older guys that were retired or close to retirement were pretty cool and would talk to you at a stop. It was outlaw biker wannabes that were the problem.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    I hear you, but at the same time, whenever you see one of these kinds of laws they are ALWAYS introduced by Republicans. Likewise it is ALWAYS Republicans that seek to defund any bicycle or pedestrian infrastructure. It's in their national party platform.

    These kinds of laws get introduced fairly regularly, but they have never passed into law in any state.
    That's because they haven't thought of a way to federally tax cycling or walking.

    At the same time here in Austin we just had a cycling advocate (can't remember his name off the top of my head) get upset with the city for not doing enough. He proclaimed that 50% of the population would commute by bike to work if they did more.

    50% yeah, that would be me, the guy on the Walmart bike with no lights or reflectors riding in street cloths and tennis shoes and riding against traffic and the guy on the mountain/hybrid bike.

    Yep we're the 50%

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