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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Quiz time.

    Which is the disc brake brifter, and which is the rim-brake brifter, and yes one is 9170 and one is either 9150 or 9100.


    Are those early renders? Shimano has similar looking images next to images that look more like the actual shifters on their site or do they actually make different hoods for the same shifter?

    Here are the 9170s:
    To buy new; disc or rim-shimano-dura-ace-di2-r9170-1.jpg

    9100s:
    To buy new; disc or rim-shimano-dura-ace-9100-levers-1.jpg

    better image of all of them:

    To buy new; disc or rim-st-r9100-series-700x344.jpg
    Last edited by taodemon; 04-19-2017 at 08:36 PM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
    But I'm wondering - is there an advantage for the hand-strength-impaired? Like an older, small female in my family who in the past has complained that it was hard to engage the rim brakes on her road bike? (significantly resolved by better calipers).

    If discs - hydro or cable - made my wife's riding experience better, it's a no brainer.
    It's the reason why there are hydraulic brakes on my wife's bike.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanseven View Post
    Take a look at the current VeloNews Buyers Guide. Discs are clearly in the minority out of the road bike categories of "All-Around" and "Aero" categories. Discs slightly outnumbered rims in the "Endurance" bracket. So if you race or want to look like a racer (which most buyers of high end bikes are), discs are the clear choice. That means discs will be around a long, long time.
    If you look at that guide closely there are 9 bikes in total (all categories) under 16 pounds. Guess how many have disc brakes?
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  4. #54
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    Agree with others that this is not a future-proofing issue. It's a "what bike fits your needs better" issue. My super lightweight race/climbing bike does not have discs. It has dura ace rim brakes. My other road bike I also use for gravel and some singletrack and fire roads does have discs, and it fits 38mm tires.

    I do like the option of riding carbon clinchers/tubeless with disc brakes, but there aren't a lot of options for this out there yet.
    I like to ride fast.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanseven View Post
    Take a look at the current VeloNews Buyers Guide. Discs are clearly in the minority out of the road bike categories of "All-Around" and "Aero" categories. Discs slightly outnumbered rims in the "Endurance" bracket. So if you race or want to look like a racer (which most buyers of high end bikes are), discs are the clear choice. That means discs will be around a long, long time.
    I would think if you want to look like a racer, rim brakes would be the clear choice.


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  6. #56
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    "So if you race or want to look like a racer (which most buyers of high end bikes are), discs are the clear choice. That means discs will be around a long, long time. "

    Are you joking about using discs if you want to look like a racer????? There is one clown that shows up to our hammer rides with discs. Most people make fun of him behind his back.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
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  7. #57
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    Are you joking about using discs if you want to look like a racer????? There is one clown that shows up to our hammer rides with discs. Most people make fun of him behind his back.
    Hahahaha. People are laughing behind his back too.... cause they're all behind him.



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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    Are you joking about using discs if you want to look like a racer????? There is one clown that shows up to our hammer rides with discs. Most people make fun of him behind his back.
    They make fun of you behind your back too.


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  9. #59
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    He rides discs because that's what he is given to ride. He could be riding a CX bike with canti's and road wheels and still do just fine.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
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  10. #60
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    Do you race often?
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
    .
    How would you like it if Hitler killed you
    Dogbert.

    I>U

    Buying parts to hang on your bike is always easier than getting fit.

    If you feel wimpy and weak, get out and train more, ya wee lassie!

    If Jesus had a gun, he'd be alive today!

  11. #61
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    He rides discs because that's what he is given to ride. He could be riding a CX bike with canti's and road wheels and still do just fine.
    So what you're saying is it's the engine and not the bike. But hey... laugh at the guy's bike.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Dub Cycle View Post
    I would think if you want to look like a racer, rim brakes would be the clear choice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I said that wrong. I meant rim brakes

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    "So if you race or want to look like a racer (which most buyers of high end bikes are), discs are the clear choice. That means discs will be around a long, long time. "

    Are you joking about using discs if you want to look like a racer????? There is one clown that shows up to our hammer rides with discs. Most people make fun of him behind his back.
    I meant rims. I went back and changed my post

  14. #64
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    To the OP: test ride several bikes. Especially compare the two types of brakes on said test rides. Then decide which YOU like best.

    I am inclined to really want disc brakes on a road bike. However my latest road bike I built last year I chose rim brakes for a specific reason: it is a breakaway type frame and I pack it into a very tight suitcase. Seemed to me there was risk of the rotors getting bent shoe horning the bike into the case. very happy with the ultegra rim brakes with upgraded salmon type pads. Though living in the PNW, discs would be great in the 8 month rainy season with all the steep hills here.
    Last edited by BCSaltchucker; 04-21-2017 at 03:47 PM.

  15. #65
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    I just won all three group ride sprints on my 21 lb endurance road bike with discs and 30mm tires yesterday. Doesn't matter-the OP's friend should buy a bike based on his preferences. Personally I like not wearing out really nice rims when it's gross weather out, which here is quite often. Rotors and disc brake pads are cheap.
    I like to ride fast.

  16. #66
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    See, the thing is, there is bike racing and there is real bike racing. Flat landers neither engage in real racing nor do they need brakes.

    What's apparently even more complicated is the concept that good/precision braking is only important where rapid repeated deceleration is beneficial.

    Finally, those who claim that rim brakes are consistently as accurate/ precise as hydraulic discs may not be too bright. They either don't ride where rapid and precise braking is needed or they are voicing an opinion without first suffering the inconvenience of actually trying them in that environment. I think we can all agree that neither is associated with brilliance.
    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    Do you race often?

  17. #67
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    Racing in America is 60% Criteriums, 38% Time Trials, and 2% Road Races.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
    .
    How would you like it if Hitler killed you
    Dogbert.

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    If you feel wimpy and weak, get out and train more, ya wee lassie!

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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    See, the thing is, there is bike racing and there is real bike racing. Flat landers neither engage in real racing nor do they need brakes.
    Wow, as a person that rides/races in hilly terrain, I have no idea how you got this concept. It's different on flat land, but it's every bit as "real".
    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    What's apparently even more complicated is the concept that good/precision braking is only important where rapid repeated deceleration is beneficial.
    Again, wrong. Good/precision braking is equally important where measured/modulated braking is required.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    Finally, those who claim that rim brakes are consistently as accurate/ precise as hydraulic discs may not be too bright. They either don't ride where rapid and precise braking is needed or they are voicing an opinion without first suffering the inconvenience of actually trying them in that environment. I think we can all agree that neither is associated with brilliance.
    Anyone who has ridden hydraulic discs relatively extensively would never claim rim brakes are superior. Mechanical discs? Having owned and ridden much of what is on the market in that field, I'll never use them again if I can avoid it. They were superior to caliper brakes in wet conditions or when I was towing a trailer, but otherwise they were a hindrance.

    It will be a very long time before I go to discs on any of my race bikes, and it will be driven by what the majority of the local peloton is riding at that point. I have a ton of bikes and wheels that are also delaying the transition. There's just no compelling need to switch, and the gains in that environment don't justify it for me. Most of our races don't include technical descents as part of the course. When it's wet, I prefer slowing at the same rate as the rest of the group to keep my skin.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    Racing in America is 60% Criteriums, 38% Time Trials, and 2% Road Races.
    I wonder what percentage choose to ride or take their bike vacations where the land is flat--given a choice?

  20. #70
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    "But hey... laugh at the guy's bike."
    That's what roadies do.....If you look different, you get flack......A very strong rider with his bib straps over his jersey will still get laughed at.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
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    If you feel wimpy and weak, get out and train more, ya wee lassie!

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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    I wonder what percentage choose to ride or take their bike vacations where the land is flat--given a choice?
    Vacations ain't racing.
    Too old to ride plastic

  22. #72
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    I used to spend all my vacations touring in the mountains on a loaded bike with SunTour Superbe Pro caliper brakes. All the "experts" in those days claimed that a heavily loaded bike needed cantilever brakes for stopping power and control, but I never had any trouble controlling my bike on the descents. On nearly every major pass on a transcontinental ride I hit nearly 50mph (47mph on fifteen different descents - must be terminal velocity with the pack setup I had) and not once did I fear that I couldn't brake in time for a hairpin or have trouble controlling the bike.

    My advice: buy what you like and feel comfortable with. This argument is beginning to take on aspects of a religious argument - the true believers either way get bent out of shape when someone disagrees. It rather reminds me of the recumbent versus upright arguments fifteen years ago...
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    I used to spend all my vacations touring in the mountains on a loaded bike with SunTour Superbe Pro caliper brakes. All the "experts" in those days claimed that a heavily loaded bike needed cantilever brakes for stopping power and control, but I never had any trouble controlling my bike on the descents. On nearly every major pass on a transcontinental ride I hit nearly 50mph (47mph on fifteen different descents - must be terminal velocity with the pack setup I had) and not once did I fear that I couldn't brake in time for a hairpin or have trouble controlling the bike.

    My advice: buy what you like and feel comfortable with. This argument is beginning to take on aspects of a religious argument - the true believers either way get bent out of shape when someone disagrees. It rather reminds me of the recumbent versus upright arguments fifteen years ago...
    If only disc brakes would make recumbents go uphill faster.
    Too old to ride plastic

  24. #74
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    To be clear, giving "haters" a little sh!t is an important part of life.

    I agree it is all racing but you'll have to wait a long time for spectators to show the kind of interest in crits that they show in the Giro or TDF. Additionally, few serious riders opt to ride the flats when good mountain riding is available and nearby. Further, the advantage for hydraulic discs is substantially reduced when not riding in mountains with twisting descents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    Wow, as a person that rides/races in hilly terrain, I have no idea how you got this concept. It's different on flat land, but it's every bit as "real".

    Again, wrong. Good/precision braking is equally important where measured/modulated braking is required.


    Anyone who has ridden hydraulic discs relatively extensively would never claim rim brakes are superior. Mechanical discs? Having owned and ridden much of what is on the market in that field, I'll never use them again if I can avoid it. They were superior to caliper brakes in wet conditions or when I was towing a trailer, but otherwise they were a hindrance.

    It will be a very long time before I go to discs on any of my race bikes, and it will be driven by what the majority of the local peloton is riding at that point. I have a ton of bikes and wheels that are also delaying the transition. There's just no compelling need to switch, and the gains in that environment don't justify it for me. Most of our races don't include technical descents as part of the course. When it's wet, I prefer slowing at the same rate as the rest of the group to keep my skin.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    See, the thing is, there is bike racing and there is real bike racing. Flat landers neither engage in real racing nor do they need brakes.

    What's apparently even more complicated is the concept that good/precision braking is only important where rapid repeated deceleration is beneficial.

    Finally, those who claim that rim brakes are consistently as accurate/ precise as hydraulic discs may not be too bright. They either don't ride where rapid and precise braking is needed or they are voicing an opinion without first suffering the inconvenience of actually trying them in that environment. I think we can all agree that neither is associated with brilliance.
    So if "real" bike racers are smarter than other riders on this topic, why is the pro-disc crowd so dismissive of pro riders that don't like discs?

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