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  1. #1
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    Ciipollini NK1K vs Pinorello F8/10 vs Litespeed T1sl vs Cervelo Rca?

    Regardless of Gruppo, which would be last bike?
    Last edited by tabl10s; 07-16-2017 at 07:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tabl10s View Post
    Regardless of Gruppo, which would be last bike?
    Do you mean last bike to pick out of the 3 or which one as a "last bike I'll own"...

    Going by the latter, I'd pick the Litespeed, I know many wouldn't but I like them
    then the Cipollini
    lastly would be the Pinarello, cause I just don't like how they look (since this is all theoretical).

    ...or are they Ciipollini and Pinorello because you're looking at Chinese copies..then neither.
    All the gear and no idea

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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    Do you mean last bike to pick out of the 3 or which one as a "last bike I'll own"...

    Going by the latter, I'd pick the Litespeed, I know many wouldn't but I like them
    then the Cipollini
    lastly would be the Pinarello, cause I just don't like how they look (since this is all theoretical).

    ...or are they Ciipollini and Pinorello because you're looking at Chinese copies..then neither.
    I don't get copies of anything. One of the guy's at the store "Wrench Science" suggested the Cipollini(they sell all three). The price of a frame is within $1500 from the highest to lowest.
    Last edited by tabl10s; 05-22-2017 at 07:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tabl10s View Post
    Regardless of Gruppo, which would be last bike?
    I'd go with the Cipollini for no other reason than the coolness factor. Plus, you'll be the only kid on the block to have one. If you get one you may develop a strange desire for expensive footwear

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    Since the only criteria is last bike, I would have to recommend the Litespeed. This is purely based on my personal bias (three carbon road frames that cracked - well maintained and no crashed) and no problems with my Ti mountain bike despite beating the living daylights out of it.

    I were buying on of the listed bikes today, I would probably go with the Cipollini for the same reasons DaveG stated. There are only tiny differences in most frames and I'm not good enough to appreciate these nuances, so I go with the one that looks the best to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tabl10s View Post
    I don't get copies of anything. One of the guy's at the store "Wrench Science" suggested the Cippolini(they sell all three). The price of a frame is within $1500 from the highest to lowest.
    yeah well by the spelling wasn't sure, so covered that off.

    I'd also add that 1 is made in the US, one in Italy (apaprently) and one in Asia, which of course doesnt' mean anything unless it does mean something to you...
    All the gear and no idea

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    I like the NK1K but the powered one,one day my legs will eventually beg for one. Pinarellos are cool but I don't like the idea of them belonging to the LVMH now. Litespeed gets my vote for the same reason as previously stated : both Cipollini and Pinarello will get old as soon as the new model hits the market.

  8. #8
    pmf
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    It would be kind of fun to have the Cipo with the hidden motor in it, although god knows what you do when the motor craps out on you. I can't imagine replacements are cheap, if they even exist.

    for a bike that you want to ride a long time, and still look good 10 years from now, get the Litespeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jspharmd View Post
    Since the only criteria is last bike, I would have to recommend the Litespeed. This is purely based on my personal bias (three carbon road frames that cracked - well maintained and no crashed) and no problems with my Ti mountain bike despite beating the living daylights out of it.
    Definitely a good point except lightspeed is not a good option relative to Seven, Mosaic and a few others where you get custom geo and handling and road feel exactly as you desire.

    Fitting, feeling and handling exactly as you prefer is what makes most people want to hang onto a bike forever. Cool looking and high end brand names ending in a vowel (Italian) don't provide mean they are good for a particular individual on the road and the coffee shop appeal will fade as others get cooler looking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    It would be kind of fun to have the Cipo with the hidden motor in it, although god knows what you do when the motor craps out on you. I can't imagine replacements are cheap, if they even exist.

    for a bike that you want to ride a long time, and still look good 10 years from now, get the Litespeed.
    Didn't know there was a Chippie w/motor. Is that why the frame costs $6k? No LBS has all three and only one stocks Pinarello which means I have to travel 75 miles to Berkeley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Definitely a good point except lightspeed is not a good option relative to Seven, Mosaic and a few others where you get custom geo and handling and road feel exactly as you desire.

    Fitting, feeling and handling exactly as you prefer is what makes most people want to hang onto a bike forever. Cool looking and high end brand names ending in a vowel (Italian) don't provide mean they are good for a particular individual on the road and the coffee shop appeal will fade as others get cooler looking.
    How are they better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tabl10s View Post
    How are they better?
    Was something unclear about this?: "get custom geo and handling and road feel exactly as you desire."

    In addition LS uses rolled sheets of Ti to form tubes. I'm no expert but from what I do know that's inferior to real tubes.
    Last edited by Jay Strongbow; 05-22-2017 at 10:56 AM.

  13. #13
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabl10s View Post
    Didn't know there was a Chippie w/motor. Is that why the frame costs $6k? No LBS has all three and only one stocks Pinarello which means I have to travel 75 miles to Berkeley.
    Italian Motorised Custom Road Bike MCM┬▓ | Cipollini. Check out the page. There's a funny picture of an older guy climbing and it says 'you never felt so young'. Top speed appears to be 25 kph, which is slower than the ebikes that blow past me on the bike path when I commute.

    Pinarellos are all made in Asia. Might as well just buy a Giant or a Fuji for half the price.

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    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Was something unclear about this?: "get custom geo and handling and road feel exactly as you desire."

    In addition LS uses rolled sheets of Ti to form tubes. I'm no expert but from what I do know that's inferior to real tubes.
    No, LS only uses rolled tubes with the 6/4 alloy. The 3/2.5 alloy is not a rolled tube. Litespeed bikes are on par quality wise with anyone else in the industry. I've been riding one for 16 years. One of the tubes is 6/4 (the down tube). So far, so good. The guy behind Litespeed (Lynskey) sold the company to American Bicycle Group. He signed a do not compete clause for a number of years, but that expired and he's back to making titanium frames under his name. I'd get one of his bikes rather than a Litespeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    No, LS only uses rolled tubes with the 6/4 alloy. The 3/2.5 alloy is not a rolled tube. Litespeed bikes are on par quality wise with anyone else in the industry. I've been riding one for 16 years. One of the tubes is 6/4 (the down tube). So far, so good. The guy behind Litespeed (Lynskey) sold the company to American Bicycle Group. He signed a do not compete clause for a number of years, but that expired and he's back to making titanium frames under his name. I'd get one of his bikes rather than a Litespeed.
    T1SL | Ti Road | Titanium | Litespeed Bicycles | Litespeed Bicycles

    "Each tube of the T1sl is handbuilt from 6Al/4V or 3Al/2.5V titanium for a specific purpose. The top tube is rolled from one sheet into a unique multi-faceted, trumpeted shape,"

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    T1SL | Ti Road | Titanium | Litespeed Bicycles | Litespeed Bicycles

    "Each tube of the T1sl is handbuilt from 6Al/4V or 3Al/2.5V titanium for a specific purpose. The top tube is rolled from one sheet into a unique multi-faceted, trumpeted shape,"
    Like I just said, you can't mill 6/4 alloy titanium, its too hard. The down tube on my Ultimate is 6/4 and you can see where its joined at the top where the water bottle bosses are. Lynskey does the same thing with their 6/4 tubes. It's the only way you can work with that alloy. The top tube on that bike (T1) is evidently 6/4 (I read that the top tube is rolled -- not all the tubes). All the 3/2.5 alloy tubes are milled. Everyone uses milled tubes with 3/2.5. Litespeed isn't doing anything that anyone else in the industry does with 6/4 alloy tubes. Most manufacturers don't use 6/4 alloy tubes. I think Litespeed and Lynskey are the only ones. It's a lighter alloy, but more brittle, and quite a bit more complicated to work with. I recall Seven having this big section on their website years ago about how 6/4 titanium was inferior to 3/2.5. I think the real story as that they didn't have the ability to work it.

    So what you say about LS tubes being inferior to the competitors is wrong.

    To the OP, the T1 is a super light weight titanium frame. Make sure it's what you want compared to other more sturdy frames in their line up. Years ago, Litespeed made a frame entirely of 6/4 called the Ghissello (that's surely misspelled) -- at the time, there was a lot of buzz because it came in at around 1000 grams which was really light. This was back when a bike under 20 lbs was gee-whiz light. The frame ended up being a complete noodle, not fit for riders who weighted 150 lbs or more. Lighter isn't always better. Take a look at the Lynskey R370. My wife has a R350 and is really pleased with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Like I just said, you can't mill 6/4 alloy titanium, its too hard. The down tube on my Ultimate is 6/4 and you can see where its joined at the top where the water bottle bosses are. Lynskey does the same thing with their 6/4 tubes. It's the only way you can work with that alloy. The top tube on that bike (T1) is evidently 6/4 (I read that the top tube is rolled -- not all the tubes). All the 3/2.5 alloy tubes are milled. Everyone uses milled tubes with 3/2.5. Litespeed isn't doing anything that anyone else in the industry does with 6/4 alloy tubes. Most manufacturers don't use 6/4 alloy tubes. I think Litespeed and Lynskey are the only ones. It's a lighter alloy, but more brittle, and quite a bit more complicated to work with. I recall Seven having this big section on their website years ago about how 6/4 titanium was inferior to 3/2.5. I think the real story as that they didn't have the ability to work it.

    So what you say about LS tubes being inferior to the competitors is wrong.

    To the OP, the T1 is a super light weight titanium frame. Make sure it's what you want compared to other more sturdy frames in their line up. Years ago, Litespeed made a frame entirely of 6/4 called the Ghissello (that's surely misspelled) -- at the time, there was a lot of buzz because it came in at around 1000 grams which was really light. This was back when a bike under 20 lbs was gee-whiz light. The frame ended up being a complete noodle, not fit for riders who weighted 150 lbs or more. Lighter isn't always better. Take a look at the Lynskey R370. My wife has a R350 and is really pleased with it.
    I might go with a C-60 instead.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabl10s View Post
    I might go with a C-60 instead.
    I'd take a C-60 over any of the three that you're considering. Buy one from Mike at Maestro and save a couple thousand bucks. I bought an Colnago Arabesque frame from him last year for considerably less than what the U.S. based companies wanted for one. I bought a C-40 years ago and recently refurbished it (check my post in the Colnago section). Rode it into work today. It's been a great bike, although I have to admit that I really like steel the older I get. If I was going to get another bike, and the four I have is enough, I'd get a Pegoretti.

    https://www.dario-pegoretti.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I'd take a C-60 over any of the three that you're considering.
    This. But I also wouldn't buy a Cipollini b/c I'd need appx 1,000 spacers for the short HT.

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    I'd get the Cipollini and ride it shirtless with no helmut.

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    Litespeed all the way. Although with the new prices I wonder what you can get out there custom. I love these
    https://fireflybicycles.com/gallery

    They do this anodized Ti that is unique.
    Although if custom is not a big deal which I think it is not. I would get a litespeed T1SL disk. I saw a mosaic and they are nice. A lot of attention to detail. The litespeed T1SL is one of the most innovative and lightest frames out there. Claimed 1000gm for rim brake frame and 1175gm for disk.
    I don't know if anything is lighter out there in Ti but that is really impressive. I weighted my T1 2015 Med frame at 1200-1250gm. Current setup weights at 15.8lbs.





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