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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike981 View Post
    With the caveat that I've never owned, or even ridden, a bike with disc brakes, my main concern is that any problem with the disc setup would require a trip to the shop, as my impression is that specialized tools and/or knowledge is required for pretty much any disc brake service. Whereas for rim brakes, though adjustments may be needed more frequently, I can't think of a time that I haven't been able to fix the issue at home with basic tools.

    Are disc brakes reliable enough to make this a non-issue? I mean, to me, it sounds like replacing the pads is doable, but you'll be heading to the shop if anything else happens.
    They are pretty straight forward to maintain.

  2. #52
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    I have seen "strong" riders on both disc and rim brakes around here (central MA). Typically if there is a new bike purchase involved it might be a 50/50 outcome but mainly because stores seem to be pushing discs. The reasoning I usually hear is not having to worry about carbon clinchers/braking issues and braking in the rain (this second reason seems kind of pointless as these same guys rarely actually ride in the rain).

    Now maybe because I'm still running an aluminum brake surface I have yet to run into any situation where disc brakes would have benefited or helped in any way, including emergency braking situations. Tire traction on the road has always been the limiting factor there. I've also never had to specifically clean my wheels after a ride in the wet. I've cleaned the whole bike because it was dirty but most of the filth was on the underside of the bike and frame/fork parts near tires.

    Maybe if there were descents around here that I literally had to ride the brakes the whole way down I could see some benefit to them but that simply isn't the case so why add extra weight/cost/drag, even if minimal, to the bike for something that provides no noticeable difference to my riding?

    I also have an issue with hood aesthetics for disc levers on everything except shimano di2, and if I were to go the electronic route I would want etap (of which etap hydro are hideous) so that is another reason I personally am not really looking forward to switching to discs.

    That said I might have no choice but to go to discs on my next bike purchase because that is where the industry if trending, including only offering certain high end bikes only in disc now.

    As far as gravel bikes go, anything my road bike can't handle I would rather be on a MTB for anyways.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike981 View Post
    With the caveat that I've never owned, or even ridden, a bike with disc brakes, my main concern is that any problem with the disc setup would require a trip to the shop, as my impression is that specialized tools and/or knowledge is required for pretty much any disc brake service. Whereas for rim brakes, though adjustments may be needed more frequently, I can't think of a time that I haven't been able to fix the issue at home with basic tools.

    Are disc brakes reliable enough to make this a non-issue? I mean, to me, it sounds like replacing the pads is doable, but you'll be heading to the shop if anything else happens.
    Hydraulic Disc brakes don't need adjustments. The fluids take care of all that. Brake pads are easy to replace. Easier than most rim brakes and are the same as used on Mtn bikes. Brake bleeding and setting up brakes is more complex, but not that bad. I have never bleed road bike levers, but is pretty straight forward on mtn bikes. In the end there is more minor care and feeding of rim brakes than hydraulic disc brakes, but there is a new skill and tools needed to do more involved jobs on hydraulics. This based on my Mtn bike experience and I don't expect any different on road.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike981 View Post
    Are disc brakes reliable enough to make this a non-issue? I mean, to me, it sounds like replacing the pads is doable, but you'll be heading to the shop if anything else happens.
    There generally is no need to adjust hydro disc brakes. If you want a tighter lever you can just squeeze the lever a bit without the wheel in. This will push the pads out further. But be careful as this could cause them to rub if you go to far. If that happens just push the piston back in with a tire lever.

    It is a good idea to bleed the brakes when you replace the pads. To put in new pads you need to push the pistons back into the caliper. To do that its easiest to just open the bleed screw on the caliper and push the pistons back. However you'll push mineral oil out which is why you'd need to re-bleed.

    Bleeding Shimano brakes is definitely more involved than adjusting rim brakes but it isn't difficult. Bare bones you only need Shimano's reservoir that screws into the shifter, block between the caliper pistons and a 7mm wrench for the caliper bleed screw. Simply put some fluid in the reservoir, pump the brake lever and hold, open the bleed screw at the caliper and close when the fluid/air stops flowing. Obviously you do need something to catch the fluid at the caliper. Once you get the tools together it should only take about 5mins for each end. Shimano has a syringe that you can just suck the fluid through from the caliper but I prefer pumping the brake lever.

    Properly setup disc brakes are totally maintenance free until pads need replacement but they do have a different set of things that can go wrong compared to rim brakes. Its just a matter of getting familure with what they are doing and how to correct it.

  5. #55
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    Are Disc Brakes Faster? Disc Brakes Vs Rim Brakes
    According to the GCN guys, rim and disc brakes are about the same in the dry. In the wet, disc gives more modulation feel thus enable you to go a tad faster. But they test rim brakes on carbon wheel. On aluminum clinchers, I reckon rim brakes will be right there with disc brakes in the wet too.


  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    On aluminum clinchers, I reckon rim brakes will be right there with disc brakes in the wet too.
    Having ridden both now (wife's bike is disc and we ride the same size frame) I can tell you the discs are far better in the wet than my Ultegra direct mount brakes with aluminum rims. Maybe kool stop pads would help over the original Ultegra pads along with keeping my rims cleaner?

    For emergency situations having immediate stopping power can be critical which my rims brakes don't have and the discs do. The amount of power is also vague and even varies throughout braking on my rim brakes. The discs are exactly the same wet or try. Besides squealing when wet.

    In either case I don't see any downside to riding with disc brakes on a road bike.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Rim brakes work generally ok, but are not ideal for carbon wheels.
    Rim brakes work generally ok, but are not ideal for carbon clincher wheels.
    ^^^^^^^^^Fixed^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Are Disc Brakes Faster?
    Yep, when I pull on my disc brakes, I go faster.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    Keep the bicycle industry alive?
    Dunno, but I heard video killed the radio store. Or was it radio star?
    2015 Specialized Diverge Expert Carbon
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete in MD View Post
    Dunno, but I heard video killed the radio store. Or was it radio star?
    Man, are you behind. Now it's internet killed the video star.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Scorcho View Post
    I think it must be location based, in my little burg, the guys in their 40's are the fastest guys around. They are also buying disc bikes like crazyit.
    Middle aged stupidity? Trying to look like they know “what’s up?” The occasional disc bike guy I see makes me sad they got ripped off at the local shop. Newbies are fresh meat for fads like carbon clinchers and disc brakes.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Middle aged stupidity? Trying to look like they know “what’s up?” The occasional disc bike guy I see makes me sad they got ripped off at the local shop. Newbies are fresh meat for fads like carbon clinchers and disc brakes.
    Why do you feel the need to insult people? Why do you even care troll?
    Last edited by MoPho; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:57 PM.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by el scorcho View Post
    gave us one more reason to buy a bike.

    So now in order to ride in every condition with comfort and efficiency i need;
    - road bike
    - gravel bike
    - crit bike
    - tt bike
    - commuter bike
    - fixie
    - xc mtb
    - downhill mtb
    - all mountain mtb
    - ss mtb
    - e - bike
    - cruiser bike

    and maybe a recumbent....or not.
    nice!!! Hahahahaha!

  14. #64
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    "There are no practical reasons not to use disc brakes."

    There is one; $300-500 in price. For some people this can be a big issue.

    IMO, buy what you prefer but don't denigrate someone else's decision.
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    . . . I part time at a friends bike shop and we've only sold one rim brake road bike this year (and it was a special edition bike that only came in rim brake).
    Because you likely only had one rim brake bike in stock. Most all shops are scams pushing crap people don’t really need like carbon clinchers and disc brake frames. Newbies buy this crap.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Because you likely only had one rim brake bike in stock. Most all shops are scams pushing crap people don’t really need like carbon clinchers and disc brake frames. Newbies buy this crap.
    I know many here on RBR are comfortable buying a frame, components, and building up their own bike(s). For me, I just don't have the motivation (or knowledge/tools) to do that. When it comes time to replace my bike, I'm going to an LBS and buying one I can ride that day. If they have only disc bikes in stock, yup, that's what I'm going to buy.

    Is it a "scam" to carry only disc brake bikes? I don't know. Surely behind the scenes the LBS'es are getting pressure from the manufacturers to sell what makes the most profit. Any single LBS, even one that's a small regional chain, I doubt has much leverage to push back on what its suppliers are pushing it to sell.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Because you likely only had one rim brake bike in stock. Most all shops are scams pushing crap people don’t really need like carbon clinchers and disc brake frames. Newbies buy this crap.
    what a rude and misleading comment. wow
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Middle aged stupidity? Trying to look like they know “what’s up?” The occasional disc bike guy I see makes me sad they got ripped off at the local shop. Newbies are fresh meat for fads like carbon clinchers and disc brakes.
    40+ guys have have good income and time to ride, making them the ideal market to sell bikes to. The guys I see are by no means newbs, and ride hard, much harder than I want to ride quite frankly. I welcome you to come on out and have your legs torn off by what you perceive as a newbie.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Because you likely only had one rim brake bike in stock. Most all shops are scams pushing crap people don’t really need like carbon clinchers and disc brake frames. Newbies buy this crap.

    WRONG!

    We only do build to order bikes and the road bikes pretty much all come as rim or disc, so there is no need to push one over the other or move stock, and there is no pressure from the manufacturers. Disc has been what people want. In fact we have 3 rim brake road bikes that were demos that have been a struggle to even sell on the used marketplace.

    Other crap people don't "need": Carbon bikes, titanium bikes, aero bikes, lugged steel bikes, electronic shifting, clipless pedals, paddle shifters, brakes, more than one gear, fancy paint jobs, light bikes, light wheels, etc, etc..
    Or is it only crap when when you don't want it?



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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post

    Or is it only crap when you don't want it?
    .
    I think you hit the nail on the head here.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I think you hit the nail on the head here.
    Well it is telling that discs are taking over the road bike market, despite wholesale rejection by the road bike elite, who are still calling the shots on what is cool and what is not cool.

    The same thing happened when one manufacturer went to 9 speeds and then 10 and then 11. The lemmings had to "keep up" to hold onto market share.

    Carbon rims really called for disc brakes on road bikes more importantly than simple lust for the latest stuff. Carbon rims didn't stop the damn bike, so discs came in to save the day. The result: lighter rims that stop on a dime. Brake track surface wasn't an issue with aluminum rims.

    Same with quick release dropouts. Thru axles became necessary to compensate for weaknesses quick release drop outs presented taking up the increased torque created by the disc brakes.

    Before we had aluminum rims with QR dropouts and rim brakes. The system worked fine. Now we have lighter weight carbon rims with no brake tracks, disc brakes, and thru axles. It works even better! . The pads last as long or longer. The hydraulic fluid has shown to be reliable and largely maintenance free.

    And gravel bikes were waiting for their moment. Recreational riders aren't all stuck on what the racers are using, but that's all a roadie could get short of a flat handlebar hybrid. Cyclocross offerings tried to fill the gap for a while, but they too weren't ideal for the dirt road explorer.

    We often wondered why someone didn't market a robust touring drop bar road bike with 32 or 36 standard spoked alloy rims, that could take 40mm tires. Rivendell was onto it, but largely ignored in the mainstream market skewed towards short wheel base racing bikes with no clearance for even 25mm tires in many cases. Buyers bought them anyway, steering away from the occasional touring bike as being too heavy, too slow, too unresponsive, and uncool, like fenders, racks and such. But that's what buyers wanted on their weekend excursions into the surrounding countryside. Something that would hold up and get the rider home.

    In the '80s all bikes were lugged steel. The main difference between a racer and tourer would be spoke count. Racers went from standard 36 spokes ideal for touring, to 32 spokes. They'd put on tubular rims, slightly lighter than clinchers, and ride smaller frames with steeper angles. In the 70s racers could take a standard racing bike, slap 28mm tires on it, and use it for cyclocross. The standard DeRosa sold in '84 has enough clearance for 32mm tires. Those bikes left the market when MTB, hybrids, and cyclocross came about and have just made a comeback morphed into "gravel bikes."

    In '80, a rider could do road, dirt, and gravel on the same bike, with different tires. Today, he's got to have two race bikes, one for criteriums, another for centuries, a mountain bike for the trails, and a gravel bike for the rough country lanes and steel plates in the city. Most of this is marketing hype.

    It is refreshing to see "wide rims," 25mm tires, and stouter, more endurable bikes are making a comeback. Not every enthusiast wants to ride what the pros ride, although one would have thought that 10 years ago, based on what the shops were selling.

    Gravel bikes fill in the gap between mountain bikes and road racing bikes. This will signal a trend for more durable racing bikes, IMO. Disc brakes, thru axles, and carbon rims with no brake surfaces are paving the way. Electronic shifting, 11 gears, are icing on the cake. Just don't forget a spare battery!

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Well it is telling that discs are taking over the road bike market, despite wholesale rejection by the road bike elite, who are still calling the shots on what is cool and what is not cool.

    The same thing happened when one manufacturer went to 9 speeds and then 10 and then 11. The lemmings had to "keep up" to hold onto market share.

    Carbon rims really called for disc brakes on road bikes more importantly than simple lust for the latest stuff. Carbon rims didn't stop the damn bike, so discs came in to save the day. The result: lighter rims that stop on a dime. Brake track surface wasn't an issue with aluminum rims.

    Same with quick release dropouts. Thru axles became necessary to compensate for weaknesses quick release drop outs presented taking up the increased torque created by the disc brakes.

    Before we had aluminum rims with QR dropouts and rim brakes. The system worked fine. Now we have lighter weight carbon rims with no brake tracks, disc brakes, and thru axles. It works even better! . The pads last as long or longer. The hydraulic fluid has shown to be reliable and largely maintenance free.

    And gravel bikes were waiting for their moment. Recreational riders aren't all stuck on what the racers are using, but that's all a roadie could get short of a flat handlebar hybrid. Cyclocross offerings tried to fill the gap for a while, but they too weren't ideal for the dirt road explorer.

    We often wondered why someone didn't market a robust touring drop bar road bike with 32 or 36 standard spoked alloy rims, that could take 40mm tires. Rivendell was onto it, but largely ignored in the mainstream market skewed towards short wheel base racing bikes with no clearance for even 25mm tires in many cases. Buyers bought them anyway, steering away from the occasional touring bike as being too heavy, too slow, too unresponsive, and uncool, like fenders, racks and such. But that's what buyers wanted on their weekend excursions into the surrounding countryside. Something that would hold up and get the rider home.

    In the '80s all bikes were lugged steel. The main difference between a racer and tourer would be spoke count. Racers went from standard 36 spokes ideal for touring, to 32 spokes. They'd put on tubular rims, slightly lighter than clinchers, and ride smaller frames with steeper angles. In the 70s racers could take a standard racing bike, slap 28mm tires on it, and use it for cyclocross. The standard DeRosa sold in '84 has enough clearance for 32mm tires. Those bikes left the market when MTB, hybrids, and cyclocross came about and have just made a comeback morphed into "gravel bikes."

    In '80, a rider could do road, dirt, and gravel on the same bike, with different tires. Today, he's got to have two race bikes, one for criteriums, another for centuries, a mountain bike for the trails, and a gravel bike for the rough country lanes and steel plates in the city. Most of this is marketing hype.

    It is refreshing to see "wide rims," 25mm tires, and stouter, more endurable bikes are making a comeback. Not every enthusiast wants to ride what the pros ride, although one would have thought that 10 years ago, based on what the shops were selling.

    Gravel bikes fill in the gap between mountain bikes and road racing bikes. This will signal a trend for more durable racing bikes, IMO. Disc brakes, thru axles, and carbon rims with no brake surfaces are paving the way. Electronic shifting, 11 gears, are icing on the cake. Just don't forget a spare battery!
    Good perspective and a good read.
    I guess overall, I am in the anti disc brakes, anti carbon wheel and anti electric shifting group of luddites as you call us. Yes, there is a clear relationship between carbon wheels which play much nicer with disc brakes and wider rims and tires which also make disc brakes the preferred option. Therefore, yes, without question disc brakes and fatter tired gravel bikes go together...just like disc brakes work best on mtb alloy or carbon wheeled versions.

    I have said here often that on the road, I would own a disc road bike in the mountains or doing hill climbing and descending. I don't need disc brakes. I just don't agree on the maintenance front. To me...I have owned disc brake bikes....rim brakes are much less fiddly than hydraulic disc brake bikes. No comparison. If disc brakes were a free lunch I would be on them. No, I choose minimalism. It isn't that much different than a threaded BB with Shimano crank. It doesn't get any better. Why fool around with press fit, if you can thread cups onto a BB?

    To me the bike industry as you have pointed out has spawned some truly great innovation. But disc brakes certainly aren't for everybody. Many pros even don't want them...and a lot of amateurs. I even differ from the pros who descend the Alps at 60mph. I want disc brakes in that environment. But not on my daily training rides in flat country. Don't want electric shifting either. I would ride carbon rims if somebody gave me a set. All said, many comment generally outside of cycling that look at my bike...a 17lb carbon bike with carbon handlebar and crank with Speedplay pedals, Campy groupset and decent alloy wheels and rim brakes...that is looks like a spaceship compared to what they ride. People draw the line differently.

    I don't see the 'value' of $500 disc brakes, $1500 carbon wheels or $2500 electric groupset. That is really what is at play her. Corporate profit for limited value added to the consumer. People make these choices everyday. Most won't pay for the bells and whistles of a BMW 7 series with all their reliability issues due to greater complexity either.
    Last edited by 11spd; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:06 AM.

  23. #73
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    disc brakes is easy maintenance??
    is that why Mtbr site has a whole subforum dedicated to disc brakes? riiighttt.... gotcha

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    disc brakes is easy maintenance??
    is that why Mtbr site has a whole subforum dedicated to disc brakes? riiighttt.... gotcha

    Yawn, again with the same BS, you've been taken to task many times on this argument, apparently you don't learn. There is also pretty much sub forums for everything there.
    MTB brakes take a beating and are in a much different environment. MTB'rs also like to modify, tinker with, mix and match brake components so of course they will have questions, many are the same questions over and over.

    12k miles on my disc brakes and I've only bled the brakes once (if you can change a brake cable you can bleed brakes) and put new pads. No doubt, like anything, problems/defects could arise, but stop exaggerating already, I had to tinker with my rim brakes plenty.



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    I can definitely see avoiding disc brakes for the price but I see that as a financial reason. Also don't see any reason to buy a disc bike if you're a flat lander but if in the market for a new bike it would be dumb to limit your options simply because of an irrational hatred of disc brake road bikes.

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