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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcookie View Post
    One guy I ride with off-road is exclusively fat. He says it perfectly compensates for his weaknesses. All I know is I can’t keep up with him up hill or down.
    I'm not sure how a fat-bike compensates a fat rider other than the frame being able to support the weight.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    I'm not sure how a fat-bike compensates a fat rider other than the frame being able to support the weight.
    Ha! Teach me to be imprecise in my statements!
    Cook

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    they seem to work great for the guy I saw riding one in Arizona. They DO have more traction in loose stuff than anything smaller dia, and float over rock gardens, and add some suspension so he could have a simpler bike with no heavy complex suspension fork or shock/wingarm/linakges. He dropped us that day, actually. Great choice, I'd say.

    the silly fad that seems to be finally dying is .. XC bikes. a very rare sight around here any more. I was devoted to them and finally jumped ship a couple years ago. Good riddance. Admittedly it took 30 years for trail bikes to evolve enough to displace them.
    Care to define XC bikes? Curious what's your definition? 29er rigid 1 x' flatbar rigid?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcookie View Post
    Guys out here in western CO get them down to around 19 pounds (single speed) and absolutely fly on them, summer or winter. One guy I ride with off-road is exclusively fat. He says it perfectly compensates for his weaknesses. All I know is I can’t keep up with him up hill or down.
    Yep, my wife and I ran into some riders of fat bikes this past summer on some rough and rocky trails. Those boys just floated over every little imperfection in the trail! It was astounding!

    My uncle's gotten into fat bikes as well...he owns 20 acres of sandy pine forest and can absolutely blast around the old ATV trails on his land, while my wife and I are both struggling to keep our 26" XC MTB's upright.
    I lost my phone number. Can I have yours?

  5. #30
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    Let's be clear - those "boys just floated over every little imperfection" DOWN the trail. If you've ever gotten stuck behind someone trying to ride one of those fluffy anchors UP a trail... not so astounding.

    And sure - a 26" aluminum (just assuming to make it worse) hardtail MTB is brutal on extremely rough (rocks, roots) trails - by today's standards. A carbon, full-suspension 29er is soooo much more plush over the rough stuff. Then - and here's the bonus - that carbon FS 29er can weigh 22 pounds and have lockouts... and climb like a goat. Pretty fun fad.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by azpeterb View Post
    So if fat bikes are out, what's the next fad in cycling? Tall bikes? Short bikes? Gender-neutral bikes?
    + size bikes took over. It's the size in between fat and normal MTB tire sizing.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    that carbon FS 29er can weigh 22 pounds and have lockouts... and climb like a goat. Pretty fun fad.
    and that 22 lb XC bike will be generally a pita compared to a proper trail bike on any trail worth riding. They have evaporated from the trails in these parts. Only time I have seen them was when they held a major XC race in town last year .. 'major' XC race as in ratio of pro competitors to spectators was about 50:1. XC riding and racing is very dead compared to the early 90s

    trail bikes run about 28-38lbs

    XC bikes do not go up techy climbs as well as plus bikes, period. I dunno about fat bikes as I've never ridden one, but the logic dictates they will have better traction than anything, and traction is a big part of mtn bike fun, eliminates the hike a biking.

    But yes indeed 29ers have solved a lot of issues with all categories of mtn bikes
    Last edited by BCSaltchucker; 03-12-2018 at 11:08 AM.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Care to define XC bikes? Curious what's your definition? 29er rigid 1 x' flatbar rigid?
    less than 101mm travel (F/R), weight under 26lbs, tires under 2.2, more critically: head angles over 67 degrees
    Last edited by BCSaltchucker; 03-12-2018 at 11:10 AM.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    less than 101mm travel (F/R), weight under 26lbs, tires under 2.2
    Hmmm... weird. I ride a 22lb 100mm travel FS XC bike with 2.1s. And, I've yet to experience this PITA phenomenon you speak of. I rode that bike for 30 miles in a race Saturday and it was really (!) comfortable - right up to the end (I was suffering for other reasons - but it wasn't the bike's fault). But, I also ride a road bike with "race" geometry... oh no... that's not out of style is it?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by azpeterb View Post
    So if fat bikes are out, what's the next fad in cycling?
    Disk brakes on road bikes.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    Let's be clear - those "boys just floated over every little imperfection" DOWN the trail. If you've ever gotten stuck behind someone trying to ride one of those fluffy anchors UP a trail... not so astounding.

    And sure - a 26" aluminum (just assuming to make it worse) hardtail MTB is brutal on extremely rough (rocks, roots) trails - by today's standards. A carbon, full-suspension 29er is soooo much more plush over the rough stuff. Then - and here's the bonus - that carbon FS 29er can weigh 22 pounds and have lockouts... and climb like a goat. Pretty fun fad.
    Just sayin, they guys I speak of are very fast up hills or down. Even geared, their fat bikes are in the 22 lb range and nimble! I’m riding an anthem 29er 100 front 90 rear and these guys are on another level.

    There are old heavy fat bikes just as there are old heavy MTBs. And there are fast and slow riders riding everything.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    less than 101mm travel (F/R), weight under 26lbs, tires under 2.2, more critically: head angles over 67 degrees
    So are you throwing the whole genre of XC bikes under the bus? Or the notion that XC is not a viable category? Or there is a better bike for this type of riding, and if so, what is it? Quite an indictment to call XC bikes a fad without any substance to back up your claim.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    So are you throwing the whole genre of XC bikes under the bus? Or the notion that XC is not a viable category? Or there is a better bike for this type of riding, and if so, what is it? Quite an indictment to call XC bikes a fad without any substance to back up your claim.
    not really a fad as they held their own for 30 years. They just do not seem to be popular any more everywhere I ride. The trails have changed, the tech has changed the people have changed too. I used to organize an XC race, for five years unti mid 90s. after which the event was changed to a 24 hour event, and nowadays the only popular events seem to be enduro races or high dollar team events.

    I guess if I was still young I would still race XC, as I really enjoyed it back in the day. I had 'freeride' bikes as well as XC bikes up until a couple years ago, which I finally sold my 17 year old 'freeride' bike and my 3 years old XC bike and got a couple of proper modern trail bikes with plus tires. It was a revelation. And I've been riding MTB since about 85. They go up hill very well, unlike my 17 year old 'freeride' bike, but also enough suspension for bike parks too, a bit safer fro 50 year old bones through the rock gardens (they run 27.5+ tires, and the same bike can run 29er wheels too which are more efficient)
    Last edited by BCSaltchucker; 03-12-2018 at 07:28 PM.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    not really a fad as they held their own for 30 years. They just do not seem to be popular any more everywhere I ride. The trails have changed, the tech has changed the people have changed too. I used to organize an XC race, for five years unti mid 90s. after which the event was changed to a 24 hour event, and nowadays the only popular events seem to be enduro races or high dollar team events.

    I guess if I was still young I would still race XC, as I really enjoyed it back in the day. I had 'freeride' bikes as well as XC bikes up until a couple years ago, which I finally sold my 17 year old 'freeride' bike and my 3 years old XC bike and got a couple of proper modern trail bikes with plus tires. It was a revelation. And I've been riding MTB since about 85. They go up hill very well, unlike my 17 year old 'freeride' bike, but also enough suspension for bike parks too, a bit safer fro 50 year old bones through the rock gardens (they run 27.5+ tires, and the same bike can run 29er wheels too which are more efficient)
    What I am hearing from you is really two fold about XC. The genre has lost its luster a bit and you believe bike tech has morphed quite a bit.
    Likely both true, but I had to challenge your hyperbole about XC being a fad...anything but.

    Dualies just get better. Mtb's with uberlight carbon frames and 650c carbon wheels with super tech front and rear suspension not to mention 1 x big cassettes...yeah, not the XC of 20 years ago.

  15. #40
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    Hey now... I commute to work every day on my fat bike during the winter. It's still pretty cool in my eyes, although once the snow and ice go away I can't wait to park it and ride one of my "normal" bikes. My fat bike is pretty light, but my average commuting speed goes up about 4-5 mph when I park the fatty. 5" wide studded tires just don't roll that well.

  16. #41
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    I rarely see fat bikes out unless it snows, then everyone who has one scrambles to ride it in the slush the day after. The novelty of dragging a chain while climbing a few thousand feet wears off rather quickly. Lots of plus bikes around though, 2.6-2.8 tires on a FS bike are a reasonable compromise.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    Let's be clear - those "boys just floated over every little imperfection" DOWN the trail. If you've ever gotten stuck behind someone trying to ride one of those fluffy anchors UP a trail... not so astounding.
    Not true at all in my experience. Fatbikes generally weigh about the same as a good trail bike (mine is 29 lbs with a Bluto) and as most are hardtails they are far more efficient climbing than full suspension rigs. My experience in riding with mixed fatbike/MTB groups is that fatbikes are if anything faster on technical climbs as the grip is tremendous. The limiting factor is the engine, not the bike. Fatbikes also bomb descents in my experience. I have both a fatbike and a slack modern trailbike and I'm honestly not sure which is faster on my local trails.

    IMO, the fad of people who live in Florida or Southern California buying fatbikes is (thankfully) dead. However, in places with actual winter they make a lot of sense and are a lot of fun. A fat bike with good tires and six inches of snow can make the most mundane trail a ton of fun. They are also surprisingly capable as summer trail bikes, especially if you get one with trail-ish geometry and don't really want to buy a dedicated summer bike. Lastly, they make ideal winter commuters in places like Minneapolis or Chicago. IMO, there will always be a market for fatbikes, likely just not as big as the current market.

    I think a lot of people commenting on this thread have never tried a fatbike...

  18. #43
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    Good. Next one to bite the dust will be disc brakes.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    Not true at all in my experience. Fatbikes generally weigh about the same as a good trail bike (mine is 29 lbs with a Bluto) and as most are hardtails they are far more efficient climbing than full suspension rigs. My experience in riding with mixed fatbike/MTB groups is that fatbikes are if anything faster on technical climbs as the grip is tremendous. The limiting factor is the engine, not the bike. Fatbikes also bomb descents in my experience. I have both a fatbike and a slack modern trailbike and I'm honestly not sure which is faster on my local trails.

    IMO, the fad of people who live in Florida or Southern California buying fatbikes is (thankfully) dead. However, in places with actual winter they make a lot of sense and are a lot of fun. A fat bike with good tires and six inches of snow can make the most mundane trail a ton of fun. They are also surprisingly capable as summer trail bikes, especially if you get one with trail-ish geometry and don't really want to buy a dedicated summer bike. Lastly, they make ideal winter commuters in places like Minneapolis or Chicago. IMO, there will always be a market for fatbikes, likely just not as big as the current market.

    I think a lot of people commenting on this thread have never tried a fatbike...
    You discuss fatbikes like there is no downside to fat tires. All win eh?
    I guess we will look for only fatbikes to podium at Leadville and all other XC races.
    Whatta joke.
    And the kicker is...all roadbikes of the future will be 38c. I mean, why not have heavier, less aero tires you can run at a handful of psi? They will no doubt climb and descend faster than 25c bikes of today. A whole new genre will be born due to your revelation.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    You discuss fatbikes like there is no downside to fat tires. All win eh?
    I guess we will look for only fatbikes to podium at Leadville and all other XC races.
    Whatta joke.
    And the kicker is...all roadbikes of the future will be 38c. I mean, why not have heavier, less aero tires you can run at a handful of psi? They will no doubt climb and descend faster than 25c bikes of today. A whole new genre will be born due to your revelation.
    I've seen a few local races that have been won by guys on fatbikes, though fatbike racing is usually it's own division. Yes, the downsides are that they're slower on pavement, but once you get them off-road, the huge tires do soak up a ton of imperfections, and the inertia of the large tires helps hold momentum through loose snow, sand, or gravel. Not sure why you're taking such a negative attitude...
    I lost my phone number. Can I have yours?

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_fuji View Post
    I've seen a few local races that have been won by guys on fatbikes, though fatbike racing is usually it's own division. Yes, the downsides are that they're slower on pavement, but once you get them off-road, the huge tires do soak up a ton of imperfections, and the inertia of the large tires helps hold momentum through loose snow, sand, or gravel. Not sure why you're taking such a negative attitude...
    No we will test your theory. Leadville is only 25% pavement, 75% dirt.
    Cream will rise to the top. You will not see a fat bike win Leadville. The downside of greater inertia aka spool up...races are an aggregate of small accelerations and weight deficit and degraded aerodynamics will not beat more conventional tired mtb's in that race...ever. You won't see 35c road bikes win the TdF either...even tho they handle with greater traction and likely descend better as well.

    Fat bikes do well in deep snow and loose sand at the beach. They are a niche bike and a conventional mtb has a much broader application.

  22. #47
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    Not to worry, it's all part of a cycle (oy, the pun...) I've seen a hundred times before. All esoteric things start cool, then are adopted by posers, then a new "shiny object" comes along and the thing, whatever it was, reverts to it's original purpose. Fatties are still cool; just wait out the insanity. In the meantime, just keep turning over the pedals since that's all that really matters. But I agree seeing all those rental fatties at tourist spots being road ridden is, well, stupid.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
    Not to worry, it's all part of a cycle (oy, the pun...) I've seen a hundred times before. All esoteric things start cool, then are adopted by posers, then a new "shiny object" comes along and the thing, whatever it was, reverts to it's original purpose. Fatties are still cool; just wait out the insanity. In the meantime, just keep turning over the pedals since that's all that really matters. But I agree seeing all those rental fatties at tourist spots being road ridden is, well, stupid.
    Fatties were never cool. They were different. A marketing contrivance for goofy people to feel 'distinctive'. Fat bikes like most of their riders are heavy and slow.

    Yes, they have application in snow and beach environments. Not how they are ridden where I live. They are mostly owned by the cycling illiterate and ridden accordingly except for those that know their strengths. They maybe be good with studded tires for ice riding as well. Smart people live in warmer climates. ;-)

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Fatties were never cool. They were different. A marketing contrivance for goofy people to feel 'distinctive'. Fat bikes like most of their riders are heavy and slow.

    Yes, they have application in snow and beach environments. Not how they are ridden where I live. They are mostly owned by the cycling illiterate and ridden accordingly except for those that know their strengths. They maybe be good with studded tires for ice riding as well. Smart people live in warmer climates. ;-)

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Fatties were never cool. They were different. A marketing contrivance for goofy people to feel 'distinctive'. Fat bikes like most of their riders are heavy and slow.
    Ummmm... no.
    https://www.bicycling.com/racing/col...e-birkie-video
    I know a lot of fat bike riders. The majority of serious cyclists up here own one and ride it regularly, and they would disagree with you. I know a few manufacturers, innovators in the segment that would certainly disagree with you. I race with several people that are very, very fast (including the guy who finished just behind Cole House in that race), and they would beg to differ.
    Did the industry jump on the bandwagon a little too hard? Yep, and most of the offerings are less than spectacular because they didn't do the required research and design work. They were flailing around for the next big thing, overshot the target, and saturated the market with sub-standard bikes. It doesn't mean that well-designed fat bikes aren't still valid. The companies up here (Fatback and 9 Zero 7 among others) do a very good business in them, year after year, in a small market, without reaching over-saturation. They do this by consistently innovating and improving designs, then testing the hell out of them in any number of extreme endurance races, plus the various shorter races in the state.

    I don't ride a fat bike. I've tried one, and it isn't for me (too much of a roadie). Plus, I pursue other sports in the winter. On my team and among most of the other racing cyclists in town, I am in the very small minority.

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