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  1. #1
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    GIANT denies warranty claim Defy Advanced 1 frame

    I was replacing a shifter cable on my 2014 Giant Defy Advanced 1 (MSRP $3200) and flipped the bike over to see what was going on because the cable was stuck. Shockingly, I found a crack on the crank side coming out of the corner of the cable guide cutout. I purchased the bike December 2015 and it has ~5000 miles of riding on it (3600 in the last year).

    Because there is absolutely no damage on the frame anywhere and the bike has never been in any accident I figured this would be a no brainer warranty claim and took the bike to my local bike store. Within no time, Giant's rep claimed I crashed the bike and offered me ~15% off of a new Giant bike.

    I brought the frame to a local company that performs composites failure analysis. They said that the cable cut out created a stress riser in the corner resulting in a fatigue failure due most likely to micro porosity. They laughed at the idea that the damage was due to an accident. They also said they are sure Giant has seen this failure mode before on this design because the cutout was poorly designed from a stress perspective.

    Bottom line: Giant's "Lifetime Warranty" is just marketing BS. Avoid on your next purchase.


    GIANT denies warranty on obvious manufacturing defect for 2014 Defy Advanced 1-img-0739.jpg
    Last edited by Paul H; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:30 PM.

  2. #2
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    Obiousely I will on me next purchase.
    I lost my phone number. Can I have yours?

  3. #3
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    If you took it somewhere for analysis, you are motivated enough to sue. I recommend that you do so, and keep us informed.

  4. #4
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    Looks like defect to me.

    1. I'd look to sue in small claims court
    2. then get a steel bike

  5. #5
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Now that looks like a warranty!
    I work for some bike racers
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    and a bunch of skateboards

  6. #6
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    Ask to speak with a manager. If they don't replace it, consider flaming them online. I had the opposite happen with Specialized, I rode a bike hard for 5 years, frame cracked and they gave me a new S-works frame! Way better than what I bought, still ride it

  7. #7
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    Wow, I'm shocked they'd deny that.

    I'd ask the dealer you bought the bike from to push back on their warranty rep. There aren't any signs of impact there, and you'd have to work pretty hard to crash in a way that just hit that spot that is pretty well protected by the chainring, and nothing else.

    Did you buy the bike from an authorized Giant dealer?

  8. #8
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    Have you changed BB any all in the past?

    I’ve seen very similar cracks where a bearing press was tightened when not accurately centred on the press fit BB.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Looks like defect to me.

    1. I'd look to sue in small claims court
    2. then get a steel bike
    And go back to external cables.

    That's a pretty big hole in the wrong place, right under the press-fit BB, and there's the stress riser tearing apart, sure enough.

  10. #10
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    What kind of collision misses the chainrings and manages to just hit the weakest part of the downtube and forces the fibers to spring out? Keep pushing back, maybe ask to speak to the Reps supervisor?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by izza View Post
    Have you changed BB any all in the past?

    I’ve seen very similar cracks where a bearing press was tightened when not accurately centred on the press fit BB.
    And there we go again.
    It could be a manufacturing defect, but then, perhaps, it isn't.

    I think the best one can do is send a picture to Giant. They have massive experience in checking damaged frames. After all, they have massive experience building frames. They even build Trek frames.

    By looking at the picture, Giant will know immediately if it's manufacturing defect. Just like Trek, I suppose. Case closed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    What kind of collision misses the chainrings and manages to just hit the weakest part of the downtube and forces the fibers to spring out? Keep pushing back, maybe ask to speak to the Reps supervisor?
    A rock strike from underneath? Probably not, but not impossible.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  13. #13
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    I guess it all depends on which individual is reviewing the warranty claim. You would want to escalate it with Giant.

    I have the Defy Advanced Pro 0 with DI2. I was travelling and when assembling my bike at the hotel, I could not get the battery out of the seat tube to reconnect it as it had slid up into the seat post. While trying to get it out, I launched it into the floor and it exploded. Gravity....

    Giant warrantied it at 50% for the cost of the part, and covered the labor. I was honest, and it was clearly my fault.

    From Giants perspective, it's good will, and a small price to pay for brand loyalty.

    If you escalate and be courteous, you will hopefully get the result you want.

    What I cannot stress enough, do not threaten them with a law suit, the moment you do that, they will more than likely end conversations with you, and pass it off to their lawyers. This is an absolute last resort once all other avenues have been tried.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    A rock strike from underneath? Probably not, but not impossible.
    Why not? Not only is that possible, it happens to me quite often.
    "That pretty much sums it up. I'm 43 and my max is ~178-180. If that HR chart was mine or Froome's, we'd be on the verge of death. But for you it probably looks like a normal workout." -TLG

    LOLOLOL

  15. #15
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    What kind of collision misses the chainrings and manages to just hit the weakest part of the downtube and forces the fibers to spring out?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    A rock strike from underneath? Probably not, but not impossible.
    Yes there could be some "weird" scenarios where something could impact the BB and miss the chainring.
    However, it's blatantly clear in the photo that all the material is pushing outwards. Impacts don't look like that.

    Undoubtedly a warranty. OP, contact 1 or 2 other companies that do frame repairs, send the photo and get their opinion. Take that and your other failure analysis and send them to Giant. Let them know you'll be filing a small claims case with all this evidence. They can either make good on their warranty or make their case in court. Court is going to cost them more than fixing your frame.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9W9W View Post
    Why not? Not only is that possible, it happens to me quite often.
    on a road bike? under the BB? quite often? does the rock jump up and smack the frame or does the bike get airborne enough so the BB can come down on a 15cm edge of rock but clears your chainrings. On a road bike? Got any pics?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9W9W View Post
    Why not? Not only is that possible, it happens to me quite often.
    Rocks are constantly hitting the underside of our frames - every ride.... but with almost no force. For a rock to fly up and hit the frame with enough force to crack the frame, it'd have to shot from something... not kicked up by the front tire.

    The chainring ends up protecting the frame from landing on rocks, roots, sticks, etc. (think mtn bikes)... But, hitting a mini fin (rock formation) - big enough to hit the frame, that somehow made it past the front tire... yeah, not seeing it

  18. #18
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    Unreal, not another one! Dam#, Paul H, I feel for you. Good thing you didn't keep riding that, or other cracks, from stressing too much at that junction, might have happened at other locations. As carbon becomes more prevalent, finally people will start realizing what "crack propagation" truly means. Countless hours/weeks argument over this inside a large aircraft manufacturer, my head hurts thinking about it.

    I hope Giant steps up.....just like for the other poster I hope Trek steps up (only difference with the Trek poster was he never caught the beginning of the crack in the stay, which reached the point of a 'Cat Failure', which then took out other areas in the worst way possible).

    Man, you all wonder why people---specifically those who either know and/or who have worked with carbon---still express hesitation when dealing with carbon frames. Yes, advances have been made, but nowhere near what needs to be done. You simply do not see this type of thing, ever, in steel and ti and even aluminum framing, for any industry. We never saw it. But implementing carbon these past 6-7 years? See it all the time now. And it is scary.

  19. #19
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    Yep, no one ever saw failures in other frame materials ("crack-n-fails" or cannondale; raleigh "defectiums").

  20. #20
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    "You simply do not see this type of thing, ever, in steel and ti and even aluminum framing, for any industry."

    I am sorry, but this is not true. I have seen steel and aluminum bikes with stress cracks that propagated from various locations. I have seen steel bikes with cracks starting at a water bottle mount even, though more often at a weld. I had a friend who went through three steel Viner frames (Columbus SL/SP tubing) in the early 80s, all of which broke at the rear dropout.

    Whenever you attempt to make an ultra-light bicycle frame you are risking the possibility of stress failure. It is possible to make steel, aluminum, ti and carbon frames that will not break - but they will be considerably heavier than the risky frames on the market and so will not sell as well.
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  21. #21
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    doesn't even have to be a 'manufacturing defect' it could be an engineering defect too. but you'd only know if you had it expertly analyzed. Trouble is where can you hire a true expert qualified to do such analysis? I only know of Luescher, on the other side of the World, and even then I as a consumer don't know how authentic his credentials are.

    the bike makers are in the catbird seat. they supposedly have the experts and the game play on their side. They may also have a prejudice against all riders who file complaints, because sometimes the riders lie about it. We as non experts can never really know if the warranty is a marketing ploy or if it is real. And these things are too low dollar to be litigating over, unless someone gets seriously injured.
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  22. #22
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelgianHammer View Post
    You simply do not see this type of thing, ever, in steel and ti and even aluminum framing, for any industry. We never saw it. But implementing carbon these past 6-7 years? See it all the time now. And it is scary.
    What a load of bull.
    Try using the google. There's thousands of photos of cracked/broken Ti, Steel, & Aluminum bikes.


    For any industry huh?
    You never heard of cracks in aluminum airplane structures? And now they're making airplanes from carbon fiber. ZOMG!
    Last edited by tlg; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:36 AM. Reason: misquote
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by crit_boy View Post
    Yep, no one ever saw failures in other frame materials ("crack-n-fails" or cannondale; raleigh "defectiums").
    LOL, yep, keep the RBR ad-dollars floweth strongest. That cannot be messed with

    You're comparing apples and oranges, and I'd like to think you smart enough to know the difference between different material junction points versus a singular material in-and-of-itself failing.

    An even bigger back atch ya (though me thinks you playeth cat & nouse defender too much and thus know better)

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    "You simply do not see this type of thing, ever, in steel and ti and even aluminum framing, for any industry."

    I am sorry, but this is not true. I have seen steel and aluminum bikes with stress cracks that propagated from various locations. I have seen steel bikes with cracks starting at a water bottle mount even, though more often at a weld. I had a friend who went through three steel Viner frames (Columbus SL/SP tubing) in the early 80s, all of which broke at the rear dropout.

    Whenever you attempt to make an ultra-light bicycle frame you are risking the possibility of stress failure. It is possible to make steel, aluminum, ti and carbon frames that will not break - but they will be considerably heavier than the risky frames on the market and so will not sell as well.
    Not 1-3 or 4 year old frames.

    Couch it all how you might want it.

    But it simply is not true.

    This stuff is happening on basically new carbon lain material.

    For other material. No. Unless you're talking 10 to 20 to 30 year old frames.


    It's like Trump's little world here, only applied to bicycles. At least Donald paid out, though, lol.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    What a load of bull.
    Try using the google. There's thousands of photos of cracked/broken Ti, Steel, & Aluminum bikes.


    For any industry huh?
    You never heard of cracks in aluminum airplane structures? And now they're making airplanes from carbon fiber. ZOMG!
    yes indeed. wow. My old riding buddy had a steel frame break under him JRA a few years ago. He's sworn on steel ever since and happily gone to carbon bikes. Though he rode steel since the 80s and no problems till that one break, lol.

    I also had a Klein alu failure due to engineering fault, which was super common back in the day.

    the internets is awash in stories of various brands of Ti frames cracking. especially those cheap chinese ti frames like the Bikes Direct ones, but also Lynskeys I know of too. And yet I have a bit more confidence in my Lysnkey frame than my previous carbon frame - based on no real expertise I admit.
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

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