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  1. #151
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    I'm looking for that perfect compromise between durability, long-life, and performance. Any suggestions?

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by npwhitman View Post
    I'm looking for that perfect compromise between durability, long-life, and performance. Any suggestions?
    What about comfort/compliance? Is that also important to you? What is most important to you?
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  3. #153
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    1. Durability
    2. Long-life
    3. Performance/comfort/compliance

  4. #154
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by npwhitman View Post
    1. Durability
    2. Long-life
    3. Performance/comfort/compliance
    I think you should try the Unicorn brand, maybe the Unobtainium 9000. Besides durability, long life and comfort/performance, they also only weigh 120 grams and cost $19.99/tire. November Dave sells them.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by npwhitman View Post
    1. Durability
    2. Long-life
    3. Performance/comfort/compliance
    Joking aside (you gotta laugh at PMF's response), if durability and long life are your most important qualities, the Maxxis Re-Fuse is your tire. These are nearly bombproof and a rear will last you at least 3000 miles. You won't find a more durable road tire than this one. The downside is that they are only 60 TPI, so less comfortable/compliant and more rolling resistance. YMMV.

    If you read through this whole thread, you would see where I asked about the Vittoria Rubino Pro G+. I am going to try this one as well as the Rubino Pro III (out of production, but there is still stock and you can get these pretty cheap). The Rubino series appears to be a little bit more durable version of their Corsa series. Mind you, the Corsa series is a "race tire" while the Rubino series is a "training tire". In general, training tires are more durable and have longer life at the expense of speed and comfort.

    Now careful! Just to make things confusing, Vittoria has multiple versions of both the Corsa and Rubino. There is the Corsa and Corsa Speed version. There is the Rubino, Rubino G+, Rubino Pro G+, Rubino Pro Speed G+ (lighter, less durable), Rubino Pro Control G+ and Rubino Pro Endurance (both more durable, but less compliant).

    In general, the higher the TPI, the most supple the tire which equates to more comfort and less rolling resistance, but a slightly less durable tire.

    See below and read specs and reviews carefully:

    https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...d-bike-reviews

    https://www.biketiresdirect.com/sear...nd=vi&fcat=cre
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  6. #156
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    Thanks for your response. The Maxxus Re-Fuse looks like a good compromise for my needs.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Joking aside (you gotta laugh at PMF's response), if durability and long life are your most important qualities, the Maxxis Re-Fuse is your tire. These are nearly bombproof and a rear will last you at least 3000 miles. You won't find a more durable road tire than this one. The downside is that they are only 60 TPI, so less comfortable/compliant and more rolling resistance. YMMV.

    If you read through this whole thread, you would see where I asked about the Vittoria Rubino Pro G+. I am going to try this one as well as the Rubino Pro III (out of production, but there is still stock and you can get these pretty cheap). The Rubino series appears to be a little bit more durable version of their Corsa series. Mind you, the Corsa series is a "race tire" while the Rubino series is a "training tire". In general, training tires are more durable and have longer life at the expense of speed and comfort.

    Now careful! Just to make things confusing, Vittoria has multiple versions of both the Corsa and Rubino. There is the Corsa and Corsa Speed version. There is the Rubino, Rubino G+, Rubino Pro G+, Rubino Pro Speed G+ (lighter, less durable), Rubino Pro Control G+ and Rubino Pro Endurance (both more durable, but less compliant).

    In general, the higher the TPI, the most supple the tire which equates to more comfort and less rolling resistance, but a slightly less durable tire.

    See below and read specs and reviews carefully:

    https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...d-bike-reviews

    https://www.biketiresdirect.com/sear...nd=vi&fcat=cre
    While thread count can be a good indicator it's good to know how the count was arrived at. A 60tpi casing wrapped over itself can be called 120tpi which is a bit misleading. 180tpi if three wraps.

    I've also read that suppleness can also be influenced by the tightness of the weave. A looser weave equals more supple while a tighter weave with a higher thread count could be less supple. I guess that it boils down to the finest thread in the loosest weave equals the more supple tire.
    Too old to ride plastic

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by npwhitman View Post
    1. Durability
    2. Long-life
    3. Performance/comfort/compliance
    Durability and performance are inversely related. That's how it is with rubber. Doesn't matter if it's cycling, motogp, formula1, nasca, indy, rubber is rubber.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Joking aside (you gotta laugh at PMF's response), if durability and long life are your most important qualities, the Maxxis Re-Fuse is your tire. These are nearly bombproof and a rear will last you at least 3000 miles. You won't find a more durable road tire than this one. The downside is that they are only 60 TPI, so less comfortable/compliant and more rolling resistance. YMMV.

    If you read through this whole thread, you would see where I asked about the Vittoria Rubino Pro G+. I am going to try this one as well as the Rubino Pro III (out of production, but there is still stock and you can get these pretty cheap). The Rubino series appears to be a little bit more durable version of their Corsa series. Mind you, the Corsa series is a "race tire" while the Rubino series is a "training tire". In general, training tires are more durable and have longer life at the expense of speed and comfort.

    Now careful! Just to make things confusing, Vittoria has multiple versions of both the Corsa and Rubino. There is the Corsa and Corsa Speed version. There is the Rubino, Rubino G+, Rubino Pro G+, Rubino Pro Speed G+ (lighter, less durable), Rubino Pro Control G+ and Rubino Pro Endurance (both more durable, but less compliant).

    In general, the higher the TPI, the most supple the tire which equates to more comfort and less rolling resistance, but a slightly less durable tire.

    See below and read specs and reviews carefully:

    https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...d-bike-reviews

    https://www.biketiresdirect.com/sear...nd=vi&fcat=cre
    3000 miles? that's about when a schwalbe marathon plus is broken in. of course they also roll like they were made of cement. but almost impossible to flat.
    Blows your hair back.

  10. #160
    T K
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    I like the Schwalbe Durano for durability. The only tires I have never had a flat with and they last forever. Their ride quality is fine with me. They have a Durano Plus with extra protection but unles you are riding on roads paved with broken glass and rusty nails, the regular version should be sufficient.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by T K View Post
    I like the Schwalbe Durano for durability. The only tires I have never had a flat with and they last forever. Their ride quality is fine with me. They have a Durano Plus with extra protection but unles you are riding on roads paved with broken glass and rusty nails, the regular version should be sufficient.
    i stand corrected, I meant the duranos.
    They are nice with the extra layer if you prefer not to repair a flat is freezing windy conditions But the difference with race tires is rather obvious.
    (trust me on this one, a nail is too much for them).
    Blows your hair back.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    While thread count can be a good indicator it's good to know how the count was arrived at. A 60tpi casing wrapped over itself can be called 120tpi which is a bit misleading. 180tpi if three wraps.

    I've also read that suppleness can also be influenced by the tightness of the weave. A looser weave equals more supple while a tighter weave with a higher thread count could be less supple. I guess that it boils down to the finest thread in the loosest weave equals the more supple tire.
    Yes, I understand that Conti tires have 3 plies. So a Conti tire that is rated as 330 TPI is actually 110 TPI for each ply.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by den bakker View Post
    3000 miles? that's about when a schwalbe marathon plus is broken in. of course they also roll like they were made of cement. but almost impossible to flat.


    Well yeah, the Marathon Plus isn't even a road tire, it's a touring tire. So natually, it's made to emphasize durability Its rolling resistance is rated below under touring tires:

    https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...&maxweight=899
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Well yeah, the Marathon Plus isn't even a road tire, it's a touring tire. So natually, it's made to emphasize durability Its rolling resistance is rated below under touring tires:

    https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...&maxweight=899
    I'll be happy to repeat I misspoke. I meant duranos.
    Blows your hair back.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by den bakker View Post
    I'll be happy to repeat I misspoke. I meant duranos.

    Oh sorry. If only I had moved on and read your next post before replying. So you get more than 3000 miles out of a rear Schwalbe Durano? How much do you weigh?
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Oh sorry. If only I had moved on and read your next post before replying. So you get more than 3000 miles out of a rear Schwalbe Durano? How much do you weigh?
    fairly heavy, around 75kg
    Blows your hair back.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by den bakker View Post
    fairly heavy, around 75kg
    75kg is 167lbs. Not that heavy. I'm about 180lbs. fully clothed and don't usually travel light on my rides.

    That said, I could probably get more than 3000 miles, but this is usually the point where my rear tire gets thin enough where I don't feel comfortable continuing to use it.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  18. #168
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    I had a sidewall cut that resulted in a flat yesterday. Not sure what I ran over. Lots of detritus on the shoulder. Had to boot the tire with a Park boot. Conti 4000SII. Doesn't happen very often though. If it did, I'd switch to GP 4 Seasons.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by npwhitman View Post
    1. Durability
    2. Long-life
    3. Performance/comfort/compliance
    Well, #1 and #2 are the same thing, and #3 is actually 2 different things....

    Quote Originally Posted by npwhitman View Post
    Thanks for your response. The Maxxus Re-Fuse looks like a good compromise for my needs.
    Well, if you don't mind a tire that rides like a garden hose....

    I've never bought a Maxxis tire, but from what I've seen, they essentially define the term "cheap and nasty". I'd bet that after just 20 miles on these things, you'll regret your purchase. This is the kind of tire you'd put on your kid's bike because you are tired of fixing his flats, or if you live down the street from a glass recycling facility. Only buy these things if "
    3. Performance/comfort/compliance" actually means nothing at all to you...
    Last edited by No Time Toulouse; 11-23-2017 at 11:44 AM.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  20. #170
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    Durability to me means resistance to sidewall blowouts and to a lesser degree, flats. Long life is how long the tread lasts before threads are showing.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Well, #1 and #2 are the same thing, and #3 is actually 2 different things....



    Well, if you don't mind a tire that rides like a garden hose....

    I've never bought a Maxxis tire, but from what I've seen, they essentially define the term "cheap and nasty". I'd bet that after just 20 miles on these things, you'll regret your purchase. This is the kind of tire you'd put on your kid's bike because you are tired of fixing his flats, or if you live down the street from a glass recycling facility. Only buy these things if "
    3. Performance/comfort/compliance" actually means nothing at all to you...
    An exaggeration for sure, Toulouse. Maxxis Re-Fuse are a little less compliant/comfortable, but it is not a tremendous difference. I just experimented with a pair of the new Vittoria Rubino Pro G+. They feel a tiny bit faster than my Re-Fuses, but any compliance differences were negligible.

    To put things in perspective, you will notice a bigger difference in compliance going to the next wider/narrower tire width than you will changing make and model of tire. Pressure makes a bigger difference too.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



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