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  1. #26
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    Seeing how...

    Anyway...


    So the pros don't like the Dura-Ace rotors for some reason.



    Several riders have been pictured with these rotors, and when asked about it they've been quoted as saying that it's the rider's choice. Aesthetics?


    And by the way, Trek is wishing/asking for a ban on rim brakes if they remove the weight limit on bikes. They claim that someone could make a super light rim brake bike and get an advantage and it wouldn't be fair. They are asking that the UCI ban rim brakes and make only one braking system available, disc brakes. They claim it would be fair and safer that way.
    use a torque wrench

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    Seeing how...

    Anyway...


    So the pros don't like the Dura-Ace rotors for some reason.



    Several riders have been pictured with these rotors, and when asked about it they've been quoted as saying that it's the rider's choice. Aesthetics?


    And by the way, Trek is wishing/asking for a ban on rim brakes if they remove the weight limit on bikes. They claim that someone could make a super light rim brake bike and get an advantage and it wouldn't be fair. They are asking that the UCI ban rim brakes and make only one braking system available, disc brakes. They claim it would be fair and safer that way.
    bwhahahhaa so Trek thinks rim brake bikes might be an advantage if the weight limit is removed? And their argument is that it would be more fair and safer??? Oh dear, can we say that Trek is a big f8cking a crybaby??

  3. #28
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    Well they do have a point. They say that the riders don't want mixed braking systems and neither do the mechanics.

    They struggle to get a 6.5kg disc brake bike, but without a weight limit a 5kg rim brake bike would be super easy, they'd be below that with rim brakes for sure, 4.8kg maybe? Discs could never match that. In fact, we'd be seeing friction front mech shifters and cut off bars probably, bwahaha.

    Keep everyone on the same brake standard and it levels the playing field. Right now they're leaning hard on and requiring the weight limit to make discs competitive. If they remove the weight limit we're right back to square one and discs won't ever get the stronghold they're pushing so hard for.

    This weight limit thing is kind of a... well... We'll see.

    With the history of the UCI I'm betting the weight limit stays, or if they remove it they will ban rim brakes.
    use a torque wrench

  4. #29
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    I've used all the major rotors and the RT-900s are the worst of the bunch, but RT-99s have most of the same issues. The notches in the rotor shape cause vibrations as they pass over the pads. The rotors warp quite a bit and after a few hard descents they end up having this permanent, weird turkey gobble noise at low brake force.

    Campy H11 rotors have aggressive vertical vents and when you brake, it sounds like Chewbacca moaning. The only really nice thing about the H11s are how smooth the radius is on edge of the rotor...they are truly rounded off.

    SRAM Centerline X rotors are by far the least temperamental. The horizontal, staggered vents prevent weird high frequency noises. They just work.

    Also 6-bolt rotors have fewer issues with road disc brake bikes. Shimano's HB20 lockrings don't even work with my Emonda Disc's fork, and some hubs aren't designed to use the smaller internally notched lockrings. SRAM Centerline X rotors are the only ones that have a 6-bolt option. When I first switched to disc, I was told to stick to centerlock because Ice-Tech/Freeza rotors are best. Now I'm a lot more inclined to buy 6-bolt hubs for future wheel builds.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    Well last year their director of marketing in Europe or whomever said something exactly similar to; "Yes, of course we're paying them specifically to use and be photographed with the disc brake bikes, that's literally how this works." It was in response to Sagan refusing to ride them but being photographed with them and their gold wheels and such and then the Boonen thing.

    So it's clear that Specialized has been trying to force them on the riders for a while. But it's the teams that make the ultimate decision. It's basically an all in or nothing thing for teams. Will the Specialized teams fall in line this year? You can bet they're being pressured to, "that's literally how this works."
    Makes sense for sure. If you think of it from a consumers standpoint, if the pro's don't want disc brakes...I know this isn't a universal and I am sure there are pros that prefer discs, how much does it really matter from a consumer standpoint other than the dynamic of marketing most are weary of. Its kind of like press fit bottom brackets. If you took a poll of what bike enthusiasts really prefer, most including me prefer threaded BSA...of course with many tradeoffs not unlike what come along with disc brakes. For me for example, braking isn't even on my radar because my Shimano dual pivot rim brakes work wonderfully. I don't want to pay more for hydro discs. But...as with BB's, marketing and really profit is driving the direction of disc brakes.
    Again, I will state I believe disc brakes stop better. But the analogy I have used before, I don't need Brembo 4 piston brakes on my SUV either for the way I drive it and don't want to pay for them or maintain them.
    Right now, there is dual path. Will repeat, for pro's racing a bike for a living, disc brakes just make plain sense to me. For consumers who don't live in the mountains, I would sure like the option of rim brakes...and will add a BSA BB which in many cases won't happen either.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    bwhahahhaa so Trek thinks rim brake bikes might be an advantage if the weight limit is removed? And their argument is that it would be more fair and safer??? Oh dear, can we say that Trek is a big f8cking a crybaby??
    Not crybaby per se. Big bike brands yearn for a simpler life less complicated with making their race bikes with one brake type versus two like the old days. They are standing on a nickel. Any race bike...lets take the new redesigned Trek Emonda SLR now available in both brake types, if they could get rid of the rim model, they would love it. Likely more money for them, when Joe six pack sees his next dream bike raced on TV with only disc brakes.

    Marketing is kind of like politics and people are like sheep. So, companies can push their agenda of 'profit' if it suits them and of course it would. No rim brake frame mold, and higher profit on hydro disc brakes. Consumers get a very good stopping bike that doesn't weigh much more but most will agree, disc brakes are more fiddly to maintain and some will of course even dispute that.
    Profit.

    And btw, the real driver of press fit BB's and lack of standards is more marketing. Bike makers having their own proprietary BB to market their bike as 'better' when the reality is BS. Some BB designs bring nothing but grief to consumers...including Specialized carbon OSBB which is a narrow version of PF-30 until they finally killed this design which was awful and sold on their 'flagship S-works race bikes' and for what? So Specialized could create a marketing niche for their top of the line bike they asked more money for that they could advertise as lighter weight. It was warranty and consumers switching brands that made Specialized kill this BB design for its poor reliability...an abomination and many owners were converting these awful BB's courtesy of the aftermarket. Demand meet supply. Even wide shell BB's are a marketing ruse. Narrow shell BB bikes from Pinarello and Specialized continue to win the TdF....nothing between narrow and wide BB shells in performance. Marketing.
    Last edited by 11spd; 01-03-2018 at 03:18 AM.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    Well they do have a point. They say that the riders don't want mixed braking systems and neither do the mechanics.

    They struggle to get a 6.5kg disc brake bike, but without a weight limit a 5kg rim brake bike would be super easy, they'd be below that with rim brakes for sure, 4.8kg maybe? Discs could never match that. In fact, we'd be seeing friction front mech shifters and cut off bars probably, bwahaha.

    Keep everyone on the same brake standard and it levels the playing field. Right now they're leaning hard on and requiring the weight limit to make discs competitive. If they remove the weight limit we're right back to square one and discs won't ever get the stronghold they're pushing so hard for.

    This weight limit thing is kind of a... well... We'll see.

    With the history of the UCI I'm betting the weight limit stays, or if they remove it they will ban rim brakes.
    Good post. Subtext being...who really drives legislation of the UCI? What's at stake here? For competitive racing, what matters is an even playing field. Same rules for all. And...it almost always is about money and profit. Top bike brands aren't supporting pro racing for 'good will'. They hope this marketing will sell more bikes for more money. So you have to ask, how much does the 'lobby of the big bike brands' influence the hand of the UCI? You have succinctly identified what's at stake.

    Ban on rim brakes is a big step, but could happen and to placate fans and those that question this judgement, a companion weight limit reduction could happen as well...seen as 'moving the sport forward'...whether true or not.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    Well last year their director of marketing in Europe or whomever said something exactly similar to; "Yes, of course we're paying them specifically to use and be photographed with the disc brake bikes, that's literally how this works." It was in response to Sagan refusing to ride them but being photographed with them and their gold wheels and such and then the Boonen thing.

    So it's clear that Specialized has been trying to force them on the riders for a while. But it's the teams that make the ultimate decision. It's basically an all in or nothing thing for teams. Will the Specialized teams fall in line this year? You can bet they're being pressured to, "that's literally how this works."
    If the Specialized riders refuse to run discs will Specialized sue them?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    If the Specialized riders refuse to run discs will Specialized sue them?
    You have to wonder about the push back. And then...there is the Specialized Venge VIAS disc bike. You may recall what an underwhelming failure the rim brake version of the VIAS was. And then we look at Marcel Kittel who 'rode away' from the field in the sprint stages of last year's TdF on a VIAS disc. So if wanting to ride an aero bike, Spesh only offers one offering...the VIAS disc. But...they do offer the redesigned Tarmac which in my opinion would be the preferred bike for overall riding and climbing and Spesh makes that bike in rim and disc brake versions.
    We'll see.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    When everyone realizes disc brakes are vastly superior to rim brakes there won’t be a need for any discussion.
    Yes. As a matter of fact I'm going back to rims.

  11. #36
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    Speaking of disc brakes, Trek-Segafredo plans to use them all year. In fact, they are asking the UCI to mandate their use, so that everyone is slowed down with wheel changes, equally.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    Speaking of disc brakes, Trek-Segafredo plans to use them all year. In fact, they are asking the UCI to mandate their use, so that everyone is slowed down with wheel changes, equally.
    Maybe the peloton etiquette will be updated such that riders with rim brakes will slow down when disc riders have a flat. Makes it more fair

  13. #38
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    having a rear flat in a race is going to be quite the feat for the wheel changer dude.

    It is brilliant marketing though, in order to ride what the pros are gonna ride

    we pretty much have to change everything except handlebars and maybe cranks.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    Maybe the peloton etiquette will be updated such that riders with rim brakes will slow down when disc riders have a flat. Makes it more fair
    Agree...maybe in return of favor for cutting a sausage for a bit of protein during the race. ;) That btw seems to have died down a bit.

    or...remember old school etiquette when leaders wouldn't break away when a rider in the group has a mechanical? Would be similar decorum to slowing down for a disc brake wheel change. ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    It's all been said and discussed Ad nauseam.
    Ugh. I agree. I was out riding my new “gravel” bike when I had a flat and they are a PITA. Only redeeming feature is tire size


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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    having a rear flat in a race is going to be quite the feat for the wheel changer dude.

    It is brilliant marketing though, in order to ride what the pros are gonna ride

    we pretty much have to change everything except handlebars and maybe cranks.
    In bold...couldn't craft a better marketing strategy for the bike industry. Joe six pack will have to have a disc brake bike when they see their favorite riders winning on one. Pavlov's dog.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    Ugh. I agree. I was out riding my new “gravel” bike when I had a flat and they are a PITA. Only redeeming feature is tire size

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Gravel bikes is another matter. Center pull brakes suck big time.
    Disks every day with wider tires. But yes, always the rear tire. ;)

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    It's all been said and discussed Ad nauseam.
    Mission accomplished....
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    Without disc brakes threads the whole site will come to a halt; but agree
    We could still talk about chain lube.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Agree...maybe in return of favor for cutting a sausage for a bit of protein during the race. ;) That btw seems to have died down a bit.

    or...remember old school etiquette when leaders wouldn't break away when a rider in the group has a mechanical? Would be similar decorum to slowing down for a disc brake wheel change. ;)
    shht if my radio tells me that my rival is having a rear flat and he's on disc, I'd make sure to gas it a little harder! You know when seconds count, then you can't afford to play etiquette with disc. They knew what they were getting into.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtrac View Post
    We could still talk about chain lube.
    We could. We just like to argue here at RBR. Discs are just the newest thing to argue about. But, you can't go wrong with the standards: frame materials, chain lube, do trainer miles count, etc

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    Well they do have a point. They say that the riders don't want mixed braking systems and neither do the mechanics.

    They struggle to get a 6.5kg disc brake bike, but without a weight limit a 5kg rim brake bike would be super easy, they'd be below that with rim brakes for sure, 4.8kg maybe? Discs could never match that. In fact, we'd be seeing friction front mech shifters and cut off bars probably, bwahaha.

    Keep everyone on the same brake standard and it levels the playing field. Right now they're leaning hard on and requiring the weight limit to make discs competitive. If they remove the weight limit we're right back to square one and discs won't ever get the stronghold they're pushing so hard for.

    This weight limit thing is kind of a... well... We'll see.

    With the history of the UCI I'm betting the weight limit stays, or if they remove it they will ban rim brakes.
    So Trek gonna say that after 100 years of racing, rim brake is now unsafe. Got it.
    But to facilitate the transition to disc, let's remove the weight advantage of a rim brake by banning rim brake bike all together. Got it.

    But but, I thought disc wheels are gonna be lighter now that there is no need for the brake tracks. And I thought disc wheel are gonna more aero too now that the brake track doesn't exist anymore and so design can now be truly aerodynamic without the brake track interfering.

    And I thought wheel change is gonna be smooth and fast with thru axel, you know, to assure caliper alignment consistency, and thus the speed of the wheel change.

    But guys, let's just make sure everyone is on a leveled playing field by banning rim brake. Nice eh. And while we're talking level playing field, let's just have everyone ride a Trek bike on Zwift, that's ironclad guarantee levelness right tharr ehh

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    We could. We just like to argue here at RBR. Discs are just the newest thing to argue about. But, you can't go wrong with the standards: frame materials, chain lube, do trainer miles count, etc
    "is Zwift watts/kilo real"?

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtrac View Post
    We could still talk about chain lube.
    There's only one chain lube worthwhile: ProLinktm: The friction mutilatortm! It's got what chains cravetm!

    Back on topic... I never met a disk breaks thread I didn't like.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    having a rear flat in a race is going to be quite the feat for the wheel changer dude.

    It is brilliant marketing though, in order to ride what the pros are gonna ride

    we pretty much have to change everything except handlebars and maybe cranks.
    It honestly doesn't take that much more time. In fact popping the wheel into the "guides" is easier. The only reason it might take longer is the insertion of the axle, but then again the faster option for someone in the GC hunt is just to swap bikes.

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