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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Thing is....for all the years Garmin has been doing this they had no GPS cycle-computer competitors at all. They've been doing this since the Edge 205 days. AKA a decade+.

    They honestly don't seem to give a crap.


    Wahoo had some teething problems....but they got their ducks in a row fast (their 3rd unit released retail). As opposed to Garmin who 12+ (IIRC) athletic GPS units released later, and they're only now starting to worry about decent firmware.

    That s the problem with not having competition. You get complacent, you no longer innovate. Garmin definitely fell victim to that.

    Garmin really does need to get off its ass if it wants to remain competitive. Buggy and all, I have enjoyed various Garmin devices in the last 15 to 20 years, and while I have not really had any major problems with my Forerunner 350 (original giant sized wrist one), 500 and 810, I am not considering any more Garmin devices unless they come up with something innovative. The fact that they still use legacy hardware, still using old BT specs, and their iphone app kinda sucks. Not to mention I hate.. absolutely hate the chest strap HR monitors. Today, we are starting to have choices. I am not saying those choices are great, some are, some bomb, but at least we have choices.

    I feel that Garmin will have to innovate in the consumer sports segment, or they will have to leave the segment and stop bothering.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirx View Post
    To add to the chorus, I am still using my Edge 705, which I bought pretty much when it came out roughly 10 years ago. Never a single hiccup, of any kind. Survived a hard crash without a scratch, rides in all sorts of weather including pouring rain. Even the battery life doesn't seem to have changed much, but then I never needed to test the limits (all of my rides have been less than 7 hours). The cadence sensor and heart rate strap it came with are just fine likewise.
    How I miss my 705, It was my first bike computer that I bought refurbished because it was cheaper. I never had a single problem with it ever. The 705 did exactly what I wanted it to do without fail. I accidentally crushed the screen putting stuff in my car one day. I got a 510 from Garmin and HATED it. Nothing worked the way it was suppose to. It wouldnt sync wirelessly, The live track never worked, the touch screen sucked. I eventually sold it and got an 800. The 800 is pretty good although I wish I had the joystick of a 705 and not the touch screen. It seems the newer model Garmins get worse and worse instead of better.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljvb View Post
    That s the problem with not having competition. You get complacent, you no longer innovate. Garmin definitely fell victim to that.

    Garmin really does need to get off its ass if it wants to remain competitive. Buggy and all, I have enjoyed various Garmin devices in the last 15 to 20 years, and while I have not really had any major problems with my Forerunner 350 (original giant sized wrist one), 500 and 810, I am not considering any more Garmin devices unless they come up with something innovative. The fact that they still use legacy hardware, still using old BT specs, and their iphone app kinda sucks. Not to mention I hate.. absolutely hate the chest strap HR monitors. Today, we are starting to have choices. I am not saying those choices are great, some are, some bomb, but at least we have choices.

    I feel that Garmin will have to innovate in the consumer sports segment, or they will have to leave the segment and stop bothering.

    Garmin made the market...which is the frustrating thing. My Edge 1000 is about 95% stable. Last night's ride (May 1 2017) was one of the other 5%. Got home, it synced to Connect just fine-but Strava refused to take the ride. Grumbling I fired up Fit File Repair Tool that I bought way back when E1K was much less stable...Funny thing. My Edge is basically a nanosecond-accuracy atomic clock. How the hell does it manage to therefore stamp my last night's ride (and all datapoint entries in the FIT file) as April 6th 2019? I mean seriously? 10 seconds in FFRT and the file's date stamps were fixed en masse with 1 mouse click.


    Which brings up the other thing. Fit File Repair Tool is in no way an officially licensed Garmin-produced toolset so far as I know. It is a Microsoft Access application made by a random brilliant cycling enthusiast software developer in Germany. Indeed all the riding tools people use like FFRT and MapMyRide and so on are 3rd party tools that were garage cobbled together at home and refined into something respectable. Garmin made a broken ecosystem, and left the community to step up and fix it. FFRT is one of those things that Garmin themselves should have released Day 1 to fix corrupt ride files....instead they never have released such a tool.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  4. #54
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    There are things I hate about Garmin as a company. Some of their devices have had pretty bad design flaws from a UX and functionality perspective that could easily have been fixed and they often choose not to when they've moved onto the next generation of product. (2 examples... with the old FR60/FR70 watches, you could not choose between using speed sensor and HRM to calculate calories burned, it defaulted to speed sensor if one was attached. So if you biked down a mountain even though you didn't even pedal it'd say you burned like 3000 calories.... and then with the Fenix 2 watch you could not choose between zero and non-zero average cadence and it defaulted to zero).

    That said, the Edge 500 and 520 units are great products they deserve some kudos for.

    Keep in mind the Edge 500 is technology from 2009, with firmware last updated in 2013, and people are still using the thing! In fact, you can still buy it new. Yes, it had kinks that were worked out in production instead of pre-release, but ultimately most people have gotten years of good use out of their 500s. When you are comparing the 500 to an ELEMNT, you are comparing 2009 tech to 2016/2017.

    For me personally, the Edge 520 is perfect. I like the size, the features, the GPS/GLONASS accuracy, the Varia Radar compatibility, and have had very few technical issues with it. I also like that it does NOT have a touchscreen. The reason I switched from the 500 to the 520 was GPS inaccuracy in a couple local canyons was driving me nuts and there was a sale... ultimately it's been among my favorite bike-related products.

    From all the reviews and comments I gather Wahoo's ELEMNT line including the BOLT are great. But I wouldn't knock Garmin if you haven't tried an up-to-date 520 yet.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    and eventually was the reason it went in the trash. I'm a big fan of the Wahoo stuff right now.
    You should try selling your old cycling stuff on eBay instead of junking it. Definitely helps to fund a continuous stream of new toys with money recycling of old toys.


    Quote Originally Posted by n2deep View Post
    To be completely fair, on the boat/ocean, Garmin GPS-Chart Plotters are simply the best,, I have used others but Garmin on the water is the best of the best!!!

    My Edge 1000 has some weird kinks like the power on when charging and the heart rate strap sucks but other than those two issues, its worked flawlessly. But I also admit that I do not connect my 1000 to the phone/strava/mapmyride/etc. (Apparently the root of most issues identified above)

    Oh, I believe that without a doubt. Garmin makes fantastic oceanic and avionics equipment and software. It's a shame that it's cycling division was always seemingly ran as an afterthought. You're telling me a company that makes equipment for most airlines and ships on this planet can't release a better product than the pipeline of turds?

    Wahoo deserves the market share in this space.
    "That pretty much sums it up. I'm 43 and my max is ~178-180. If that HR chart was mine or Froome's, we'd be on the verge of death. But for you it probably looks like a normal workout." -TLG

    LOLOLOL

  6. #56
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    BTW, the row of LED's on top of the Bolt unit is by far my favorite feature. I set it to HR and I can always see the LED's and their color out of the corner of my eye to see which HR Zone I'm in. As you make your way through zones more LED"s light up and the bar changes colors from Blue--> Green ---> Orange ---> Red.

    You can set this LED strip to represent HR, power, average speed, cadence or other fields. It provides a great way to glance down and immediately assess your exertion level or desired metric without glancing at the numbers.
    "That pretty much sums it up. I'm 43 and my max is ~178-180. If that HR chart was mine or Froome's, we'd be on the verge of death. But for you it probably looks like a normal workout." -TLG

    LOLOLOL

  7. #57
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    I am glad to see the Wahoo Bolt as new competition to Garmin. Garmin has dominated the market for too long. Although their products are good, they are not great and their user interface setup and use is almost as bad as it was to program an old school "time blinking" VCR. Wahoo has made huge strides with their programming app to make the job easy. They have a good display and the Bolt has a much better size than the original Wahoos. I can only expect them to get better over time. They have made more improvements in a couple years than Garmin has over a decade. I have a Garmin 520 right now, and have owned a 705 and a 500, but I think the Wahoo Bolt or its successor will be my next computer.

  8. #58
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    If you are in the 'more competition is more better' camp, then this will be good news.

    Hammerhead Karoo - Android based
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/05/...-computer.html

    My initial impression is that I'm not a fan of the formfactor (it's pretty large), and I don't want to deal with a touchscreen (sweaty hands, Seattle rain, gloves in cold weather, etc...). I like that it's android based though, and that it has it's own connectivity (it has a SIM slot), so it doesn't need a separate phone or wifi for route sharing, updates, etc...

    Due out in August or so.

  9. #59
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    My Bolt is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. My bike has 2016 Di2 Ultegra. I understand I will need to buy and install a D Fly unit for the Bolt to bve able to display my gearing and battery level, but my concern is that people have written that I would also need to update the firmware on my Shimano... how does one do this?

  10. #60
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    You update the firmware on your Di2 components by plugging in the USB interface from your PC and run the E-Tube Software. You use the same SM-BCR2 unit you are probably already using to charge your Di2 (unless you have an external battery/charger).

    If you don't want to deal with the hassle of the firmware update yourself, your LBS should be able to do it for you for a reasonable price.

    If all you want to do is add an ANT+ connection to your BOLT, all you need is the old D-Fly SM-EWW01 ANT+ (only) wireless unit.

    If you get the new generation of bluetooth/ANT+ combo Wireless units (EW-WU111 for internal or EW-WU101 for internal or external), you can pair them via bluetooth to an IPAD and use the IPAD Etube software do all of your updates and configuration wirelessly. This also requires you to replace your battery/master unit with the new Bluetooth battery/master unit. (BT-DN110) assuming you don't already have it. The old battery is no longer available.

    The new bluetooth units will give you some additional functionality in the form of sync style shifting, along with the same multi-shift and button function programming.

  11. #61
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    You update the firmware on your Di2 components by plugging in the USB interface from your PC and run the E-Tube Software. You use the same SM-BCR2 unit you are probably already using to charge your Di2 (unless you have an external battery/charger).

    If you don't want to deal with the hassle of the firmware update yourself, your LBS should be able to do it for you for a reasonable price.

    If all you want to do is add an ANT+ connection to your BOLT, all you need is the old D-Fly SM-EWW01 ANT+ (only) wireless unit.

    If you get the new generation of bluetooth/ANT+ combo Wireless units (EW-WU111 for internal or EW-WU101 for internal or external), you can pair them via bluetooth to an IPAD and use the IPAD Etube software do all of your updates and configuration wirelessly. This also requires you to replace your battery/master unit with the new Bluetooth battery/master unit. (BT-DN110) assuming you don't already have it. The old battery is no longer available.

    The new bluetooth units will give you some additional functionality in the form of sync style shifting, along with the same multi-shift and button function programming.
    Wow, thanks. Lots of great info. The bike is here;
    https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...ce-udi2/106250
    its a 2016, with the battery in the seatpost, but the spec is not on the website... I guess that is the newer type. If it is in the seatpost does it mean it is?
    If one goes for the internal version EW-WU111 D Fly, where do they typically put it? seems like it would be a better option, with less chance of knocking a wire out while taking my bike on and off bike racks etc.

    I do not think I will be messing around with customized shifting just yet, as I have only ridden the bike twice so far... but am really loving it.

    Psyched to try out the Bolt this weekend... it'll be my first bike computer. I have been using my phone, with either RidewithGPS and/Or Strava.

    I do have the battery charger you mention, so at least I can update from my laptop using it.

    Thanks again for all the great info!

    G
    Last edited by gzim; 05-02-2017 at 03:06 PM. Reason: adding info

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by gzim View Post
    Wow, thanks. Lots of great info. The bike is here;
    https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...ce-udi2/106250
    its a 2016, with the battery in the seatpost, so I guess that is the newer type. If one goes for the internial EW-WU111 D Fly, where do they typically put it? seems like it would be a better option, with less chance of knocking a wire out while taking my bike on and off bike racks etc.

    I do not think I will be messing around with customized shifting just yet, as I have only ridden the bike twice so far... but am reallly loving it.

    Psyched to try out the Bolt this weekend... it'll be my first bike computer. I have been using my phone, with either RidewithGPS and/Or Strava.

    I do have the battery charger you mention, so at least I can update from my laptop using it.

    Thanks again for all the great info!

    G

    On a CF bike, the wireless unit can go basically anywhere inside the frame. The WU111 is nice since it is an inline and can effectively splice in between other components in the Di2 network. The WU101 is less versatile since both ETube ports are one side.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  13. #63
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    Most people put the internal unit either in the top tube or the head tube. You have to have to pull the fork/headset to get in there. Wrap it loosely in some foam or bubble wrap so it doesn't rattle around.

    I've posted pics of this on this forum, and you can do an internet search to find some examples.
    Last edited by Migen21; 05-02-2017 at 03:44 PM.

  14. #64
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    Here is the link to download the ETube Software. Make sure you keep the latest version, as the older versions don't work with the newer hardware.
    http://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/

    it's Windows PC Only, unless you have a tablet. I see looking at the link that there is an android version now. I didn't realize this. I've only used the IPAD for the wireless stuff.

    Prepare yourself to be underwhelmed by the software interface (PC or Wireless). Shimano is pretty good at making components, but their software leaves a lot of room for improvement.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    If you are in the 'more competition is more better' camp, then this will be good news.

    Hammerhead Karoo - Android based
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/05/...-computer.html

    My initial impression is that I'm not a fan of the formfactor (it's pretty large), and I don't want to deal with a touchscreen (sweaty hands, Seattle rain, gloves in cold weather, etc...). I like that it's android based though, and that it has it's own connectivity (it has a SIM slot), so it doesn't need a separate phone or wifi for route sharing, updates, etc...

    Due out in August or so.

    This one has peaked my interest, although the 3G connectivity is dumb. 4g chipsets are smaller, and more efficient from a power usage perspective. Also, 3G frequencies will eventually (very soon) be reused in 4G and in a few years once the spec is finalized, 5G, leaving this device with no cell service if you chose to use that. Also not noted is whether the cost of teh device will include service from a cell provider or reseller (MVNO).

    Also, the version of Android was not specified (or I missed it), this is a problem with a lot of low end android (and even some stupid rediculously priced dumbass high end phones.. Vertu comes to mind.. as in $20k for a phone with specs from 5 years ago dumb)..

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
    I updated an 810 to the latest OS, 6.1, a few weeks ago, no issues with the unit, syncs to Connect just fine.

    Knocking, knocking...... with Garmin, it's like saying"haven't had a flat in years"....
    Finally spoke with Garmin Support, end result I need to remove Garmin Connect from computer and re-install... everything works fine now, even my last three ride have been update.
    "I refuse to be afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday & I love today!!"

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  17. #67
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    Ok. Right now, the replacement for my current Garmin 510 will not be a 520, but a Wahoo Bolt. Please 510 don't die before Wahoo has come up with integration for my Garmin Varia Radar, which I happen to like a lot.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbwh View Post
    Ok. Right now, the replacement for my current Garmin 510 will not be a 520, but a Wahoo Bolt. Please 510 don't die before Wahoo has come up with integration for my Garmin Varia Radar, which I happen to like a lot.
    I'm curious to see if the so that as well.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbwh View Post
    Please 510 don't die before Wahoo has come up with integration for my Garmin Varia Radar, which I happen to like a lot.
    I thought I read somewhere that they have no plans for this (maybe in comments after DCR review?)
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  20. #70
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    I finally got to use the 'Route Me Anywhere' feature today. I was exploring some back roads in the Cascade foothills, and didn't really know where I was going, so I pulled out the phone, tapped where I wanted to go, and it routed me there no problem. Great feature, simple to use.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    I finally got to use the 'Route Me Anywhere' feature today. Great feature, simple to use.
    I saw that in a Wahoo "Tips" email. Haven't had a chance to use it, but looks cool. I wonder though - why Garmin and the Wahoo (and the others?) have the "Return to Start" feature, but not "Route to Start"?

    I can't (realistically) envision being on a ride - long enough that I'd need directions back to the start - that would A) necessitate a re-route to the start and B) I/we wouldn't want the shortest bike friendly route possible.

    The "Return to Start" features just reverse the route, a.k.a. bread crumb route. So, if our group is on a 75-mile ride, and at mile 50, someone has an issue and needs to return... the Return to Start makes it a 100-mile ride. "Route Me Anywhere" would work here. But, I'll admit, I rarely know the address of ride start points (other than my house). They're usually "The Church", "The Bank on ___", "XYX Elementary School"

    I know, I know... first world problems - just Google it. Just seems like an easy and overlooked (for now) feature.
    Last edited by OldZaskar; 05-08-2017 at 05:26 AM.

  22. #72
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    So, if you just purchase the Bolt, not the bundle, you only get the head unit and not even the speed sensor? Is this correct?

  23. #73
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    If you just purchase the Bolt, you just get the Bolt. You have to purchase the combo, or buy sensors separately.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by KleinMan View Post
    So, if you just purchase the Bolt, not the bundle, you only get the head unit and not even the speed sensor? Is this correct?
    That is correct.

    $250 for just the head unit.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by arai_speed View Post
    That is correct.

    $250 for just the head unit.
    That's pretty petty not to at least include the speed sensor.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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