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  1. #1
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    Lance Armstrong interview on Freakonomics

    Just listened to this interview on NPR with Stephen Dubner. Pretty good, I've mostly been on the fence about Armstrong after the initial anger/disappointment.

    On the one hand, we've all been betrayed, and he was a supreme douchebag. On the other, he didn't start cycling with the intention of doping- "it was like being ready for a knife fight, but everybody had guns."

    He's since mellowed out, apologized, seems sincerely regretful, and has a podcast. Don't know if this is an older interview or what, but I just heard it for the first time. Regardless of your feelings, it's worth listening to, since it's not such a black-and-white issue.

  2. #2
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    He is a douchebag. not was. When he pays hundreds and thousands personally to those whose
    careers he ****ed up with his lies and intimidation and issues public apologies like his public attacks on them. Has he ever apologised to Greg Lemond for bringing up his child abuse and shitting on his Trek business?https://www.velonews.com/2013/01/new...mstrong_271109 or how about some other people? https://www.velonews.com/2012/10/new...idation_256702 Do you think it's only about doping? FTS. Maybe the mods can move this thread to the doping section as the "Floatsam in the cesspool" forum is not to be found.

  3. #3
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    Whos careers did he **** up with his lies???....Lying to the American public has become the norm. Why should sports be any different?
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
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    How would you like it if Hitler killed you
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    Whos careers did he **** up with his lies???....
    Hmm, good question. BTW it's whose...
    Frankie, Betsy, (I think he called her a fat crazy b!tch.) They were fired. Lemond, had his brand pulled by Trek. Mike Anderson, fired. Filippo Simeoni shunned by the peloton pretty much. Like he said Lance was the biggest bully in cycling for years. But hey loose lips eh?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lance Armstrong interview on Freakonomics-cunt-.jpg  

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    The only one whose career was damaged was Lemond. That would happen in any company when you badmouth the top earning salesman.....Mike Anderson, bike mechanic....What kind of career is a bike mechanic??.Filippo Simeoni, racer......If he was any good, he should have let his legs do the talking......Frankie?????....Doper......Betsy..... what was she fired from??
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
    .
    How would you like it if Hitler killed you
    Dogbert.

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    Buying parts to hang on your bike is always easier than getting fit.

    If you feel wimpy and weak, get out and train more, ya wee lassie!

    If Jesus had a gun, he'd be alive today!

  6. #6
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    Oh wow, a real live typing Lance apologist. Nice to meet you.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    The only one whose career was damaged was Lemond. That would happen in any company when you badmouth the top earning salesman.....Mike Anderson, bike mechanic....What kind of career is a bike mechanic??.Filippo Simeoni, racer......If he was any good, he should have let his legs do the talking......Frankie?????....Doper......Betsy..... what was she fired from??
    Franke was a domestique in the peloton for a few years and went back home and partnered in a bike shop. Betsy was the masseuse who'd spill the beans to authorities if Lance didn't make sure she kept her mouth shut. She didn't like Lance, either.

    Lots of the group didn't like his Texas swagger. He showed no class, no respect for the traditions of road racing, was out for himself, and stopped at nothing to win. The American Way, pardners!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    Oh wow, a real live typing Lance apologist. Nice to meet you.
    If that's all you got in response it strikes me that you may have a problem.

  9. #9
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    Viewing him strictly in the context of a professional rider that specialized in the Tour de France he was unconditionally the best Tour de France rider of all time. Absolutely the best without any question, without any qualifications. He was so good he was unbeatable in his prime. In addition to winning the Tour seven straight years, he won an incredible number or segments both in the mountains and in TT. No one was tougher and stronger physically or mentally. He didn't just win in many of the segments---he crushed people.
    Last edited by GlobalGuy; 08-04-2018 at 09:53 PM.

  10. #10
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    I'll check it out thanks for the tip.

    I don't really have any strong feelings about Lance. If an adult male has such strong feelings about some guy playing sports then they need to grow up. I don't know why people get so invested in this stuff.

    It's still a great story though. And my understanding is that everyone else was doping too, so it seems like a pretty even playing field

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    Last edited by tfinator; 08-04-2018 at 09:49 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    Viewing him strictly in the context of a professional rider that specialized in the Tour de France he was unconditionally the best Tour de France rider of all time. Absolutely the best without any question, without any qualifications. He was so good he was unbeatable in his prime. In addition to winning the Tour seven straight years, he won an incredible number or segments both in the mountains and in TT. No one was tougher and stronger physically or mentally. He didn't just win in many of the segments---he crushed people.
    Eddy Merckx had the same ability to crush other riders, "the cannibal." Just think, if the peloton had been clean during the Lance years, would he have been able to to do it? Sad nobody, not even he, will ever know.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    If that's all you got in response it strikes me that you may have a problem.
    Didn't realize it was a pissing match. No problem here, I'm not the one defending a fraudster and multiple cheat. The turd even hides behind women and gets them to take the rap for his own crimes. Classy piece of coward you boys are so keen to stand up for? Why? It's not like he deserves anything but contempt.
    Weird that Lance gets a pass from so many sportsmen but people like Flo Jo and Colin Kaepernick get ostracized by the sane crowd. Now what are the differences do you think? Jesus, if Lance wasn't a white boy from Texas you'd all be hating on his cheating existence.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    . And my understanding is that everyone else was doping too, so it seems like a pretty even playing field
    Nice standard to live by don't you think?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    If that's all you got in response it strikes me that you may have a problem.
    No, kiwi got it right. You have the problem as usual.
    Last edited by 11spd; 08-05-2018 at 04:12 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    Didn't realize it was a pissing match. No problem here, I'm not the one defending a fraudster and multiple cheat. The turd even hides behind women and gets them to take the rap for his own crimes. Classy piece of coward you boys are so keen to stand up for? Why? It's not like he deserves anything but contempt.
    Weird that Lance gets a pass from so many sportsmen but people like Flo Jo and Colin Kaepernick get ostracized by the sane crowd. Now what are the differences do you think? Jesus, if Lance wasn't a white boy from Texas you'd all be hating on his cheating existence.
    No it is a pissing contest with people here as everythingis. You are right kiwi. Lance is a piece of **** and those that sympathizewith his win at all costs attitude are equally morally bankrupt. There are many Tiger lovers in golf who areequally stupid about the most selfish and soulless player ever to tee it up ontour. Birds of a feather. Here is the good news. Each have gotten their just desserts. You dont have to speak the truth. Their actions have been rewarded accordingly.
    Truth is always someplace in the middle. Lance was the greatest TdF rider of all timein an era of doping. He was a giftedrider and perhaps not highlighted enough, the greatest doper of all time akathe science he used to purify his blood while competing. Unbeatable combination. But that isnt why he has lost most of hisriches and his reputation which was the impetus for his marketing and wealthlike Woods. It is because of who he isand as you rightly stated how he treated others that supported him. He is a sociopath who threatened to destroyanybody who would expose him. Woods isthe same way. A despicable and beyondselfish person. Each have to live withwho they are is the good news. Karma isa *****.

    In spite of our agreement about Lance, your FloJo analogy I don't believe is precisely accurate. To my knowledge she never did anything to intimidate others and is among the many track and field stars exposed for doping. Yes, probably many cheated and even got away with it. But I believe there is a different playing field in track and field. Majority of competitors don't dope unlike cycling where vast majority did when Lance was competing.

    The Kaepernick story to me is more cut and dried. Football is a business and mega dollars are spent on marketing to promote it. Kaepernick was on the downslide of his career. Of course he was ostracized and for good reason. Because he was using his spotlight for his personal cause in defiance of the stain it would bring to the game...whether you believe in his cause or not. I worked in business and if I didn't tote the company line, I would get fired as well. If you don't agree with standing for the flag and toting the company line, then be prepared to lose your job which he did. Owners didn't want to take on an average quarterback with this threat or hassle to their existence. Btw, the uneven playing field is...if Kaepernick had the talent of Brady or Montana, he would have been picked up in spite of this risk. He isn't as good. Risk/reward. Owners assessed it and he lost. To me, he is stupid but his choice. The whole reason he took a knee is a whole other conversation. Blaming cops for inner city self destruction is as stupid as Kaepernick taking a knee which ruined his career.
    The parallel in sport is Kaepernick, even though his actions were more benign, he really got his just desserts like Lance and Woods. People in the end generally get what they deserve even though it takes a while.

    The NFL kneeling thing btw isn't over. Of course there is social injustice. The tide will never turn by taking a knee. Players have to walk the talk.

    Last edited by 11spd; 08-05-2018 at 01:26 AM.

  16. #16
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    Lance also used legal threats and intimidation tactics on a soigneur who witnessed storage or use of PEDs, as well as the British or French person(s) who published a book on doping in cycling, implicating Lance (Was LA Confidential one of those books?). I think he sued them or managed to thwart the publication. He also blacklisted journalists who wrote anything questioning his use of PEDs as well as those who were interviewed by the journalists, drawing into question the credibility of those journalists, when all along their investigations, and the interviewees, were telling the truth.

    No restitution = no forgiveness.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter P. View Post
    Lance also used legal threats and intimidation tactics on a soigneur who witnessed storage or use of PEDs, as well as the British or French person(s) who published a book on doping in cycling, implicating Lance (Was LA Confidential one of those books?). I think he sued them or managed to thwart the publication. He also blacklisted journalists who wrote anything questioning his use of PEDs as well as those who were interviewed by the journalists, drawing into question the credibility of those journalists, when all along their investigations, and the interviewees, were telling the truth.

    No restitution = no forgiveness.
    And what you write is likely just the tip of the iceberg. I believe Lance paid people off as well to keep quiet. It was a pot bound to boil over. Too big a lie with too many tentacles to conceal. If you think about the magnitude of this lie, it is commensurate only by Lance's greed. Look what Froome did to support Thomas at the end of the TdF when it was clear that a changing of the guard had occurred. Thomas was the stronger rider even though Froome raced fiercely. Froome had his day in the sun, more than most men would ever experience, winning an unthinkable 4 TdF's.likely riding clean- 'er' than certainly Lance's era. No Froome isn't Eddy Merckx who won 5 and Lance was never the overall rider that Merckx was either.

    Had Lance not come out of retirement to parade his doping scheme once more when he couldn't ride to Contador's level in 2009 when he didn't speak a word to him on the same team throughout the tour, Lance would have been scott free. But oh no. Lance had to go for no. 8 and even when Contador was the stronger rider than Lance, Lance only tried to defeat Contador and not support him. Contrast this to Froome's realization this year.

    If Lance would have won 5 or 6 TdF's and made an effort to support those he raced with who made him famous in spite of the secrecy of doping, he would have retired a hero. Greed. All for Lance and nothing for those that supported him. A hole in his soul too big to fill. He couldn't win and dominate enough to satiate his self loathing. Same with Woods as he is washed up now and constantly reminded he can no longer beat the best. What guys like that live for.

    Just deserts. Have to love poetic justice.
    Last edited by 11spd; 08-05-2018 at 05:24 AM.

  18. #18
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    Lance is a con man in the same way as the current administration.

    Daddy issues.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    Lance is a con man in the same way as the current administration.

    Daddy issues.
    only to gullible people like you ff. You can't con your way to winning the TdF. You can step on people's throats along the way however.
    Current administration rocks.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    Nice standard to live by don't you think?
    What do you mean? I don't condone it, but I also have no way to affect it.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    Didn't realize it was a pissing match. No problem here, I'm not the one defending a fraudster and multiple cheat. The turd even hides behind women and gets them to take the rap for his own crimes. Classy piece of coward you boys are so keen to stand up for? Why? It's not like he deserves anything but contempt.
    Weird that Lance gets a pass from so many sportsmen but people like Flo Jo and Colin Kaepernick get ostracized by the sane crowd. Now what are the differences do you think? Jesus, if Lance wasn't a white boy from Texas you'd all be hating on his cheating existence.
    Hatred of Flo Jo has never approached that of Lance. Kaepernick believed that it was OK to mount a protest at his place of employment that pissed off a large percentage of his employers paying clients. Employers with any business acumen immediately fire employees that damage their business.

    Lance didn't engage in a campaign at his workplace designed to piss off customers. He engaged in a campaign to make himself and the products he represented look better than they were.


    L

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    All we need is for President Trump to come out and declare that what happened to Lance was a sham job since all Lance was doing was playing by the rules in the euro peloton during that time. I know (not whether things were a sham job, only about doping) I was there, in the Continental racing scene (still am today, as an oldster age-bracketed), and doping of all sorts was everywhere you looked and talked about openly for years as if it was normal (and it was).

    Imagine President Trump declaring, since he cannot issue a "pardon" for Lance, that instead he will bring back this one-of-a-kind wonderful American (Trump's words) into the WH to keep helping "Make America Great Again." Maybe give Lance a newly created "United States National Sports Director", or even better, strong-arming the board and have Lance appointed head USADA.

    Every one deserves a second chance, is that not the American way, or is it different depending on your own personal view (lol)?

    If Trump did the above, you would watch many people, especially on these forums, immediately commit self-immolation. Between their knee-jerk-obsessive-bordering-on-pyschotic responses to anything, any little thing, President Trump says and/or does, bringing Lance back into the U.S. political orbit, prominently, with that Texas-Chainsaw-swagger in the limelight again-------------my God.....these people's heads would explode......LOL

  23. #23
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    as far as i know, neither kaepernick nor tiger cheated at their profession.

    tiger is well respected on tour, and galleries still love him. his resurgence is considered good for the game.

    and unlike dj, the number one player in golf, tiger has never failed a pga drug test.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    only to gullible people like you ff. You can't con your way to winning the TdF. You can step on people's throats along the way however.
    Current administration rocks.
    25% of the population are fooled by a con whether it be politics or sports, that's just the way it is.

    There just has to be that many dumb dumbs for some reason.

    LA simply got the bestest drugs possible and proceeded to scam the nation with claims of training harder than the rest.


    Some people believed it and will always fall for the most obvious.

    The more outrageous the con, the 25%ers follow with equal amounts of fervor, like sheep.
    Oh my, a troll who doesn't know the difference between your and you're. What will they think of next?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    as far as i know, neither kaepernick nor tiger cheated at their profession.

    tiger is well respected on tour, and galleries still love him. his resurgence is considered good for the game.

    and unlike dj, the number one player in golf, tiger has never failed a pga drug test.
    Tiger is a heavy drug user. When he stopped for his DUI, he had no fewer than 5 different meds in his system. He is a stain on the game. I grew up playing competitive golf. Guys close to the game know him for who he is, a cheater in his personal life beyond compare.

    Tiger like Lance, their sociopathic tendencies can be explained to a degree for those that have followed both of their careers from childhood. Tiger was discriminated against without question. Golf isn't the NBA. Tiger used this negative energy to dominate. That doesn't make him a good person anymore than the golf establishment that tried to break his spirit in the early days.

    Some here know Lance's story. There is some parallel to Tiger and Lance in terms of their desire to dominate. Neither are nice people. Society in part created them...that and the parents they had or in Lance's case the father he didn't have.

    All my friends I grew up playing golf with hate Tiger. There isn't another member of the PGA tour as loathsome. Has nothing to do with skin color. VJ Singh has also won the Masters and is a complete gentlemen.

    Tiger isn't much different from Lance. Hard to say who is more despised within their respective sport. Lance is white in case you haven't noticed.

    As to
    Kaepernick, he is just guilty of being dumb. That's all. He can't help it.
    I always wanted to take 3 hour lunches during my working career. I thought about trying it but then decided I liked my job and figured it best to tow the line.
    There is reason why Kaepernick hasn't been more outspoken with 'his cause'. Reason is two fold. He isn't articulate and would embarrass himself and second the blame he ascribed to police for the ills of the ghetto is indefensible.
    Last edited by 11spd; 08-05-2018 at 12:16 PM.

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