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  1. #1
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    New bike, need some fitting input

    Hello all,

    I've been riding a 2014 Scott Solace 56 for the last couple years (~3000) miles and recently felt like it was too upright especially when sprinting, so I decided I *needed* a new bike.

    I bought a used 56 2016 Scott Foil.

    One of the things that struct me immediately was how different the geometry felt, obviously. At first I felt like I was laying down on the top tube. I did the measurements, and the drop is 2 inches more, and reach 1 inch more than the solace.

    I adjusted the geometry, and it felt better. I had my wife take a position on the hoods last night, and I was shocked to see how upright I am, compared to what I thought based on how I felt.

    I think the geometry is correct for me, just going to take getting use to a race bike feel, which is what I wanted.

    Thoughts on how my fit looks in the picture?

    -Seat height feels good (No rocking of hips)
    - Pedal axle and knee are about the same
    -Back bend on hoods looks to be about 45 degrees (even though it feels like 10 degrees lol)

    Thanks!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New bike, need some fitting input-capture.jpg   New bike, need some fitting input-capture2.jpg  
    Last edited by Indyxc; 05-03-2017 at 06:36 AM.

  2. #2
    pmf
    pmf is offline
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    You're a brave man posting that picture. Brace yourself for all kinds of useful and useless opinions coming soon. Frankly, for me, if I'm comfortable, then it's good.

  3. #3
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    Ha, I am an adult, I could care less about the negative comments. It doesn't change the reality. I was just surprised to see how angled I felt compared to the reality of the picture. The setup doesn't look extreme to me, I just think I need to get used to it.

  4. #4
    pmf
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    Looking at the two bikes -- your old bike has some spacers on the stem and the stem looks to have a lot more of an angle than the new bike, with no spacers and the stem parallel to the ground (looks like a -17 degree stem). I'd guess that's where the big difference your feeling is coming from. How did you "adjust the geometry" of the new bike? Longer stem?

  5. #5
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    The new bike has a aero stem/handlebar combo, with a slightly upward pitch.

    The adjustment I made was moving the seat height down for both leg length and this brought the reach down. I also moved the seat foward to get the knee and pedal axle inline.

    All in all, I am ok with getting use to the new fit, as I wanted a more racing oriented geometry, as long as it fits me. My opinion from the picture is it should fit me just fine I just need to get used to it.

    The next option is to get a shorter stem handlebar combo. I'm at 110 mm and you can go to 90 mm, gaining the 20 mm of reach.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Brace yourself for all kinds of useful and useless opinions coming soon.
    That is the nature of internet forums.

    Frankly, for me, if I'm comfortable, then it's good.
    That's the bottom line. No matter how the rider looks on the bike, if it feels uncomfortable, it's no good.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indyxc View Post
    I've been riding a 2014 Scott Solace 56 for the last couple years (~3000) miles and recently felt like it was too upright especially when sprinting, so I decided I *needed* a new bike.

    I bought a used 56 2016 Scott Foil.

    One of the things that struct me immediately was how different the geometry felt, obviously. At first I felt like I was laying down on the top tube. I did the measurements, and the drop is 2 inches more, and reach 1 inch more than the solace.

    I adjusted the geometry, and it felt better. I had my wife take a position on the hoods last night, and I was shocked to see how upright I am, compared to what I thought based on how I felt.
    You bought Foil to be in more aggressive position because your Solace felt too upright but then you adjusted Foil to be more upright?

    Thoughts on how my fit looks in the picture?

    -Seat height feels good (No rocking of hips)
    - Pedal axle and knee are about the same
    -Back bend on hoods looks to be about 45 degrees (even though it feels like 10 degrees lol)
    If it feels good to you, then it's good. As for pedal axle and knee, it's not a hard rule. Take a look at the following video.




    Now, as for the useless internet comment, you have the same refrigerator as I do.

  8. #8
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    Well,

    I bought the Foil for a couple reasons:
    1. Because I *needed* a newer bike I put 3000 miles on the solace and just wanted something new.
    2. Solace is bit of a noodle when sprinting. The stiffness isn't there. This is completely solved by the foil already. It feels perfect sprinting. Same with in the drops.
    3. I'm getting into racing and the solace isn't a great bike for that.

    Obviously a city cruiser is going to be more comfortable than either of these bikes. I guess my point with the post and picture was looking for feedback, that yes, my position isn't extreme as it would feel, and I should/will get used to it. It appears to me that way, and after 1 ride feels decent.

  9. #9
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    Nice ride! Your position looks good but it appears that your bars may be the wrong shape for you. That is the problem with one piece bar/stem combos. It either works for you or it doesn't & clearly there is no way to adjust it. Compared your old ride, the reach & drop on your new ride is spatially different.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indyxc View Post
    and after 1 ride feels decent.
    How long of a ride was it? If it was 40 miles or more, then the fit may be OK.

  11. #11
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    Black appliances and wood cabinets? Yeeesh!
    I'm upping my standards;
    Up yours!

  12. #12
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    yikes on that stem handel bar combo on the foil.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stan01 View Post
    Nice ride! Your position looks good but it appears that your bars may be the wrong shape for you. That is the problem with one piece bar/stem combos. It either works for you or it doesn't & clearly there is no way to adjust it. Compared your old ride, the reach & drop on your new ride is spatially different.
    Thank you! What do you mean by wrong shape? They are somewhat narrow. I agree this is the problem with aero bars. They are aero one piece. I really wish I had gotten the lesser version of the foil where the stem and bars are two piece, but it was a deal of a used bike.

    Either way of the looks, I put 20 miles on the bike last night doing adjustments, and did 40 miles just now, and happy to report by the end of the ride the bike felt like I had been riding it forever. It went from foreign to comfortable. In a strange way the lower position of this bike feels more comfortable than riding in a similar position on the solace.

    By the end of the ride I am very happy with the purchase. A quick review of the 2016+ Foil:

    1. Frame is very stiff- Sprinting on this thing feels completely different than on the solace. 1000w for 15 seconds and it's solid.
    2. Comfortable- Very surprising- It is not any less comfortable than the Scott Solace which is their comfort bike. In fact with the one piece carbon handlebar I would argue the front end of the bike absorbs more shock than the front end of the solace (alum bar/stem)
    3.Handling- Much quicker and corners better. I guess the slightly longer wheelbase, and longer stem make it feel more confident in the turns.
    4.Shimano Di2- My first experience. It's ridiculous, especially sprint shifters. Love it. Only downside I see is people claim you can shift under power. It doesn't do it better than mechanical.

    Overall, awesome bike. Going to try it in my first crit this weekend or next.

    Cabinets- It's a rental apartment, having just moved to a new city.

  14. #14
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    I see no reason why the Solace couldn't provide a "race" fit.

    In fact, I think the trend of ever-lower/slammed stems is bad for long mileage comfort and unnecessary for speed and efficiency.

    You could have easily flipped the stem on the Solace and moved spacers if necessary to get a "race" oriented position. A longer stem would have worked, too.

    Bikes have been stiff enough for decades now, and I'd be surprised if your Solace was causing you to lose sprints.

    Going to a 90mm stem on a 56cm frame is wrong and would indicate an improperly sized bicycle. If you need a 90mm stem on the Foil, the top tube is too long.

    But you scratched your itch and your wife didn't complain about the money spent.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter P. View Post
    I see no reason why the Solace couldn't provide a "race" fit.

    In fact, I think the trend of ever-lower/slammed stems is bad for long mileage comfort and unnecessary for speed and efficiency.

    You could have easily flipped the stem on the Solace and moved spacers if necessary to get a "race" oriented position. A longer stem would have worked, too.

    Bikes have been stiff enough for decades now, and I'd be surprised if your Solace was causing you to lose sprints.

    Going to a 90mm stem on a 56cm frame is wrong and would indicate an improperly sized bicycle. If you need a 90mm stem on the Foil, the top tube is too long.

    But you scratched your itch and your wife didn't complain about the money spent.
    Everything you said was completely accurate. There was no need for this bike. I have more to improve as a cyclist than I do to gain from this bike in terms of speed or efficiency. This was a want purchase. I am keeping the Solace as a touring bike to ride with my wife and adventures (we ride a lot). The Foil is going to be my group ride bike, and Crit/Road race bike which I just started recently.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter P. View Post
    Going to a 90mm stem on a 56cm frame is wrong and would indicate an improperly sized bicycle. If you need a 90mm stem on the Foil, the top tube is too long.
    Wasn't there an argument recently on this forum about 90mm stem being OK?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    Wasn't there an argument recently on this forum about 90mm stem being OK?
    Nobody consulted me first!

  18. #18
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    What's wrong with a 90 mm stem on a 56 frame?

    I've seen it plenty?

  19. #19
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    You could do a high end bike fitting. In Connecticut Signature Cycles will help you with the kind of advice you are seeking. Alternatively some cycling camps are staffed by some very knowledgeable pros who can watch you ride and give you some pointers and you'll have some fun at the same time. I rode this Spring with Paul Kneppers of Campo Bicicleta in Girona and this sort of question is right up his alley.

    For me, I'm also of the camp if it feels good, its probably OK, but I also developed some bad habits a few years ago that my body seemed to accommodate until one day it couldn't and it caused me some tight jaw issues, at which time I had to relearn some things.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indyxc View Post
    I could care less about the negative comments.
    A key question: how much less could you care? If you could care a lot less, then that might mean you care a fair bit and so posters should worry about insulting you. If you could care only a little bit less, then maybe it's open season. Or maybe you meant to say that you "couldn't care less" in which case, open fire!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    A key question: how much less could you care? If you could care a lot less, then that might mean you care a fair bit and so posters should worry about insulting you. If you could care only a little bit less, then maybe it's open season. Or maybe you meant to say that you "couldn't care less" in which case, open fire!
    Haha thanks for the laugh. You're right, I "couldn't" care less. IF I could, then I care at least somewhat.

  22. #22
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    So have 100 miles on the Foil including a time trial, I feel great on this "slammed" setup. So much so, when I road the Solace the other night ago for the first time in a few days, it felt like I was sitting in a chair. I actually ended up buying a longer stem for it, and flipping it. Feels great now too. I guess you never realize what's more comfortable until you try it.

  23. #23
    pmf
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    I think that as you start riding more, your concept of what fits well changes. Especially when you first start out. The first bike you buy probably won't be what you consider to be a good fit 5 years from now. I know mine sure wasn't.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I think that as you start riding more, your concept of what fits well changes. Especially when you first start out. The first bike you buy probably won't be what you consider to be a good fit 5 years from now. I know mine sure wasn't.
    I agree completely. When I first go into road biking, a relatively relaxed geometry made my lower back hurt. I slowed removed spacers, and now apparently got to the point, where I have 1 spacer, and flip the stem, and that feels comfortable. On the Solace I went from a 100mm stem 6 degree rise, to a 110mm stem, and I flipped it downward with a 6 degree drop. Feels great!

    What is interesting though is the push for comfort geometry and position. I think I shied away from more aggressive positions, because people told me slammed setups weren't comfortable. Getting the more aggressive Foil setup was an eye opener. A more flat position doesn't feel any less comfortable, and in some ways more. Where it really made the bike feel better is it moved my weight forward and lower, making the handling feel better, as well as the aero. When I was pushing 250 watts for 33 mins in a TT this past week, my legs thanked me!

    So, long story short, as if we didn't know. Try all sorts of bike positions, and including more aggressive ones, because you might like it. I've added a picture to show how the geometry compares and so for others so they can complain about my apartment's choices in kitchen colors. Solace reach is still a bit closer, but both are close.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New bike, need some fitting input-unnamed.jpg  

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