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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    I know of numerous, well more than a couple of people, that have no problem with the exact same setup as mine.



    Personally, I think there was possibly something done incorrectly in the setup or because of certain traits I noticed the chain, despite specs, was possibly too loose.

    Regarding the Wolf Tooth Tan Pan option comment by member factory feel I wasn't aware of that until after the choice and installation of my current setup. Now that I know about it I certainly see the merits of it as an option.
    the "too loose" is because the 105 derailleurs cage spring is not nearly burly enough.

    you will notice it when pedaling hard downhill in top gear and you suddenly stop pedaling to prepare for a corner and your chain flails wildly and drops off the right side of your big ring.

    It's only a problem in the smallest cog and second smallest cog. All other gear combos work ok. maybe that's why your buddies haven't had issues yet?

    and I assume you got this setup for climbing so at some point you'll be coming back down the mountain pedalin hard?

    trust me, you are not gonna like it as it is now with the wimpy derailleur spring. I tried everything to make it work.

    there is even an extra notch on the cage spring on the 105 that allows you to "tighten up" the spring but it doesn't help at all.

    Now, I'm not suggesting this is part of your chain wear problem, fwiw.


    Learn from my troubleshooting, get the xt derailleur and tanpan. it will shift flawlessly.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    ...about 250km ...maybe 50 hours of riding
    Are all your trails are uphill both ways?
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    the "too loose" is because the 105 derailleurs cage spring is not nearly burly enough.

    you will notice it when pedaling hard downhill in top gear and you suddenly stop pedaling to prepare for a corner and your chain flails wildly and drops off the right side of your big ring.

    It's only a problem in the smallest cog and second smallest cog. All other gear combos work ok. maybe that's why your buddies haven't had issues yet?

    and I assume you got this setup for climbing so at some point you'll be coming back down the mountain pedalin hard?

    trust me, you are not gonna like it as it is now with the wimpy derailleur spring. I tried everything to make it work.

    there is even an extra notch on the cage spring on the 105 that allows you to "tighten up" the spring but it doesn't help at all.

    Now, I'm not suggesting this is part of your chain wear problem, fwiw.


    Learn from my troubleshooting, get the xt derailleur and tanpan. it will shift flawlessly.
    A quick perusal, (I'm genuinely rushed at the moment), of Shimano and Amazon site identifies the XT Shadow derailleur as a 10 speed. (As you know my bike is an 11 speed.) The Tanpan 11 speed data says good for 11-36t cassette. What am I missing.

    I sincerely believe that you are knowledgeable, helpful minded and your system is working great so please don't think I'm rejecting or trying to argue your suggestion.

    Of course I will be more than unhappy about having wasted money on the roadlink and then have to add the cost of the Tanpan plus the new derailer you suggest.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    A quick perusal, (I'm genuinely rushed at the moment), of Shimano and Amazon site identifies the XT Shadow derailleur as a 10 speed. (As you know my bike is an 11 speed.) The Tanpan 11 speed data says good for 11-36t cassette. What am I missing.

    I sincerely believe that you are knowledgeable, helpful minded and your system is working great so please don't think I'm rejecting or trying to argue your suggestion.

    Of course I will be more than unhappy about having wasted money on the roadlink and then have to add the cost of the Tanpan plus the new derailer you suggest.
    The number of speeds the derailleur has listed doesn't have anything to do with what it can be used for. A "6 speed" 1988 105 derailleur will work with 11 speed shifters.

    What makes a derailleur compatible is its geometry and cable pull ratio. You used the Wolf thing to kinda fix the 105 geometry problem, and the Tanpan fixes the Shadow pull ratio problem. Neither is using the derailleur as designed. The cable pull ratio is actually a better fix than the Wolf because dropping the derailleur lower makes it clear the 40t but puts it too far from the 11t. The Shadow has the correct geometry for your cassette, and nothing will ever make the 105 work like the Shadow.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    A quick perusal, (I'm genuinely rushed at the moment), of Shimano and Amazon site identifies the XT Shadow derailleur as a 10 speed. (As you know my bike is an 11 speed.) The Tanpan 11 speed data says good for 11-36t cassette. What am I missing.

    I sincerely believe that you are knowledgeable, helpful minded and your system is working great so please don't think I'm rejecting or trying to argue your suggestion.

    Of course I will be more than unhappy about having wasted money on the roadlink and then have to add the cost of the Tanpan plus the new derailer you suggest.
    no worries mate, i'm only trying to help because i don't want you to have to go thru what i did to get it right and you'll be better served without that roadlink

    Shimano XT RD-M8000 11SP Rear Derailleur | Jenson USA

    Wolf Tooth Tanpan Derailleur Converter | Jenson USA choose 11 sp in drop down menu.


    PS: I too really wanted my 105 derailleur to work and tried nearly everything I could think of but ultimately I wasn't satisfied with it.
    I was leary about shifting performance with the tanpan but I gave it a try and it is far better than my expectations.

    the guys at woolftooth are very helpful as well.

    I am now running tanpans on three different bikes, both 10 and 11 speed setups.
    Last edited by factory feel; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:03 PM.

  6. #31
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    I thought I had.
    No you hadn't.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    the "too loose" is because the 105 derailleurs cage spring is not nearly burly enough.

    you will notice it when pedaling hard downhill in top gear and you suddenly stop pedaling to prepare for a corner and your chain flails wildly and drops off the right side of your big ring.

    It's only a problem in the smallest cog and second smallest cog. All other gear combos work ok. maybe that's why your buddies haven't had issues yet?

    and I assume you got this setup for climbing so at some point you'll be coming back down the mountain pedalin hard?

    trust me, you are not gonna like it as it is now with the wimpy derailleur spring. I tried everything to make it work.

    there is even an extra notch on the cage spring on the 105 that allows you to "tighten up" the spring but it doesn't help at all.

    Now, I'm not suggesting this is part of your chain wear problem, fwiw.


    Learn from my troubleshooting, get the xt derailleur and tanpan. it will shift flawlessly.
    ding ding ding! We have a winner here (regarding the 105 and chain slapping).

    Yes, I can attest to that. I'm also running a 105 derailleur midcage (10 speed) and I too notice similar symptoms when I'm pedalling hard downhill (big ring, small cog), the chain would bounce so hard that it would momentarily jump cog in the back (accompanied by a loud clanking sound). However, I have managed to prevent the chain from dropping by slowly backing off my pedal speed as I approach any corner.

    Having said that, I have managed to get my chain sucked 3 times, and all 3 times happened when I was going from big ring to small ring over some rough pavement, causing the chain to bounce hard that it got sucked back up into the chainrings (basically the chain wraps itself into a knot), with chain jammed very tightly between the front derailleur and chainrings. A lot of force has to be used to pull the chain back out again. But one time, the chain was jammed in there so tight and convoluted that I couldn't even pull it out. Ended my ride, had to completely loosen the crankset to get the chain to come loose.

    I'm also considering the XT clutch derailleur with Tapan device. But I'm still gun shy because I don't know how it would shift. Does it shift as fast and as precise as the 105? Or does the combo shift a little slower? or does it sometimes require a double shift and then "back up a step" to get into the right cog? I'm curious to know more

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    no worries mate, i'm only trying to help because i don't want you to have to go thru what i did to get it right and you'll be better served without that roadlink

    Shimano XT RD-M8000 11SP Rear Derailleur | Jenson USA

    Wolf Tooth Tanpan Derailleur Converter | Jenson USA choose 11 sp in drop down menu.


    PS: I too really wanted my 105 derailleur to work and tried nearly everything I could think of but ultimately I wasn't satisfied with it.
    I was leary about shifting performance with the tanpan but I gave it a try and it is far better than my expectations.

    The guys at woolftooth are very helpful as well.


    I am now running tanpans on three different bikes, both 10 and 11 speed setups.
    Turns out that the chain was counterfeit and was composed of two different chains and very, very, well used. I got it from Amazon.

    The shop has fixed my bike and said it's running very smooth. Their work quality and judgment are from my extensive experience with them completely reliable.

    So I will go with what it is and give a try. Due to time contraints, I couldn't pick it up until tomorrow. So given none of the money invested in what I've got at this point, (techinically I could probably get a refund from Amazon for the chain but the heck with it), I will ride what is set up on the bike now and see how it works.

    I discussed in detail your setup and I told them that if I became unhappy with what I got or it needed replacement I would just at the appropriate time bring the bike back and go with the exact setup you recommend. They added that given their experience with the whole project now they would be happy to do the work. In short, they will order from Shimano and if needed the tanpan, (although I think I would be safe in ordering that myself), and put it together if and when I want to do it.

    Thanks you so much for the info and education. I have no doubt that your setup is best but at the immediate moment what I have should work if and until I need or want or can afford to replace with your setup.

    I'll send you a PM on how current setup works.

    There is only one long descent I regularly do, a 4.6 mile 4 percent. Do it all the time. sometimes I do one far from me that's at least 7 percent but is about I would guess 1/2 mile. It definitely is a max out 50-11 at something like 105 cadence and if I remember. Top speed is about 50 MPH.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    ding ding ding! We have a winner here (regarding the 105 and chain slapping).

    Yes, I can attest to that. I'm also running a 105 derailleur midcage (10 speed) and I too notice similar symptoms when I'm pedalling hard downhill (big ring, small cog), the chain would bounce so hard that it would momentarily jump cog in the back (accompanied by a loud clanking sound). However, I have managed to prevent the chain from dropping by slowly backing off my pedal speed as I approach any corner.

    Having said that, I have managed to get my chain sucked 3 times, and all 3 times happened when I was going from big ring to small ring over some rough pavement, causing the chain to bounce hard that it got sucked back up into the chainrings (basically the chain wraps itself into a knot), with chain jammed very tightly between the front derailleur and chainrings. A lot of force has to be used to pull the chain back out again. But one time, the chain was jammed in there so tight and convoluted that I couldn't even pull it out. Ended my ride, had to completely loosen the crankset to get the chain to come loose.

    I'm also considering the XT clutch derailleur with Tapan device. But I'm still gun shy because I don't know how it would shift. Does it shift as fast and as precise as the 105? Or does the combo shift a little slower? or does it sometimes require a double shift and then "back up a step" to get into the right cog? I'm curious to know more
    it shifts really good, that was my worry as well but i rolled the dice and am pleasantly surprised!

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    However, I have managed to prevent the chain from dropping by slowly backing off my pedal speed as I approach any corner.
    that's how i made it home from a 26 mile downhill after trying the 105. I even cut and shortened the chain mid ride but that only helped a smidgen. I still had to be very gentle in the big small when letting off the pedals. The speed of the rear wheel alone would make the top of the chain dip into the chain stay during high speed coasting. I even swapped wheels trying to get as little amount of freewheel drag as possible but none of my wheels could overcome the weak spring on the non clutched 105 derailleur.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    Turns out that the chain was counterfeit and was composed of two different chains and very, very, well used. I got it from Amazon.

    The shop has fixed my bike and said it's running very smooth. Their work quality and judgment are from my extensive experience with them completely reliable.

    So I will go with what it is and give a try. Due to time contraints, I couldn't pick it up until tomorrow. So given none of the money invested in what I've got at this point, (techinically I could probably get a refund from Amazon for the chain but the heck with it), I will ride what is set up on the bike now and see how it works.

    I discussed in detail your setup and I told them that if I became unhappy with what I got or it needed replacement I would just at the appropriate time bring the bike back and go with the exact setup you recommend. They added that given their experience with the whole project now they would be happy to do the work. In short, they will order from Shimano and if needed the tanpan, (although I think I would be safe in ordering that myself), and put it together if and when I want to do it.

    Thanks you so much for the info and education. I have no doubt that your setup is best but at the immediate moment what I have should work if and until I need or want or can afford to replace with your setup.

    I'll send you a PM on how current setup works.

    There is only one long descent I regularly do, a 4.6 mile 4 percent. Do it all the time. sometimes I do one far from me that's at least 7 percent but is about I would guess 1/2 mile. It definitely is a max out 50-11 at something like 105 cadence and if I remember. Top speed is about 50 MPH.

  12. #37
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    The seller through Amazon is issuing me a full refund. They stated that two other customers had the exact same problem. Their use satisfaction rate on Amazon is 99 percent. I can see why especially since I wasn't able to provide them with proof of the bad chain. (Long story. I should have used my smartphone to take some snaps. Just didn't think about the issue.)

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
    Ever seen a chain that keeps breaking? That's a kind of wear, too.
    No. If my chain breaks once, it gets replaced, period. There is no chance it will "keep breaking".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
    A "6 speed" 1988 105 derailleur will work with 11 speed shifters.
    Incorrect. The cable pull ratio on the 11-speed shifters will make them incompatible with the 6-speed derailleur.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Incorrect. The cable pull ratio on the 11-speed shifters will make them incompatible with the 6-speed derailleur.
    Think about it. I have no idea if that works or not but it certainly has nothing to do with that the shifters pull. They pull x amount regardless of what's being pulled.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Think about it. I have no idea if that works or not but it certainly has nothing to do with that the shifters pull. They pull x amount regardless of what's being pulled.
    Not true. Different shifter/derailleur combos have different pull ratios, just like with brakes. You cannot mix STI shifters with V-brakes for the same reason.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Not true. Different shifter/derailleur combos have different pull ratios, just like with brakes. You cannot mix STI shifters with V-brakes for the same reason.
    Good lord. Pull ratio. not getting pulled ratio. And lots of people use or have used STI shifters and V brakes. Myself being one of the so don't tell me it cannot be done when I have first hand experience that it can, just fine.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    Turns out that the chain was counterfeit and was composed of two different chains and very, very, well used. I got it from Amazon. ......
    Looks like somebody abused the Amazon return policy! Looks like you'll need to check any chain from Amazon for stretch when it arrives, now.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    No. If my chain breaks once, it gets replaced, period. There is no chance it will "keep breaking".



    Incorrect. The cable pull ratio on the 11-speed shifters will make them incompatible with the 6-speed derailleur.
    Well, I have seen chains that were not stretched but were worn laterally enough to keep popping rivets. The benefits of experience.


    And the pull ratio thing, you are correct. When Shimano went to 11 they created new and different pull ratio derailleurs. While there is a way to rig them to work with the old shifters, they aren't designed to and don't when set up the per the instructions.

    I was confusing the change from DA 7800 to 7900, but those were both 10 spd groups.
    Last edited by Kontact; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:28 PM.
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  19. #44
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    New chain wears out in three weeks. What!-fullsizeoutput_153f.jpg

  20. #45
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    All fixed up and took it out for a 25-mile spin today with a five-mile climb and hammered a two-mile stretch on the descent, (3 percent.)

    Shifts very well and no problems whatsoever. Smoother more comfortable ride too as I upgraded 28 front tire to a 32. I expected a difference but it was even better than I thought.

    Unfortunately, the bike frame doesn't allow room to put 32 on the back.



  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Looks like somebody abused the Amazon return policy! Looks like you'll need to check any chain from Amazon for stretch when it arrives, now.
    Hmm..., pre-stretched chain, like prewashed jeans. Must be the latest fad.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Good lord. Pull ratio. not getting pulled ratio. And lots of people use or have used STI shifters and V brakes. Myself being one of the so don't tell me it cannot be done when I have first hand experience that it can, just fine.
    Just fine? You mean your brakes didn't feel mushy?
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
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    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Looks like somebody abused the Amazon return policy! Looks like you'll need to check any chain from Amazon for stretch when it arrives, now.
    From my own experience, it is clear that Amazon does not vet their 3rd party vendors very well. Any fly-by-night can sell there just like on eBay. Check user reviews carefully.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
    Well, I have seen chains that were not stretched but were worn laterally enough to keep popping rivets. The benefits of experience.
    You are correct. My point was that if one rivet pops, others won't be far behind, so I would replace the chain.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    All fixed up and took it out for a 25-mile spin today with a five-mile climb and hammered a two-mile stretch on the descent, (3 percent.)

    Shifts very well and no problems whatsoever. Smoother more comfortable ride too as I upgraded 28 front tire to a 32. I expected a difference but it was even better than I thought.

    Unfortunately, the bike frame doesn't allow room to put 32 on the back.
    Hmmm. Now here is an idea I hadn't thought of. I might try a 32mm on the front of my road bike. I'm running 28s and there is definitely room to spare in the front. The rear is tight even for a 28.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



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