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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    42 T on a road bike??? Are you planning on pulling tree stumps???

    Seriously, just go BUY another bike. You obviously don't have a clue what you are doing, and all you will end up with is a very expensive compilation of parts thrown together on a frame that don't really work well, and in the end it will cost you MORE than just buying a complete bike.
    it's a 40 Einstein.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    I'm not going to add a 'hack' like that to a Shimano derailleur. It will change the clearance between the upper pulley and certain cogs and that will have an impact on shifting performance. It might be good enough for you, but I won't do that. It's really no different than reversing or installing an extra long b-tension screw. It takes the derailleur out of it's designed parameters and will not shift as well. Not to mention it's out of the chain wrap capacity range of the derailleur as well.
    this is true.
    Last edited by factory feel; 05-06-2017 at 03:14 PM.

  3. #28
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    Sounds like you accomplished your mission of keeping costs under control. I can't evaluate the gear choices because I don't know your riding ability or the hills you speak of. A wheel choice I'd go with that may be in your price range are Shimano RS81's, but they are close to $500 at Nashbar.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avvakening View Post
    I'm not familiar with how easy that actually is to pedal and I could definitely be going overkill with it. You think I should just stick to 11/32? Other than weight and maybe not as smooth shifting, is there any other reason not to go with 11/42?
    32 would be overkill unless you live in Pittsburg, PA. 42 is nuts. You going to be riding off road?

    Don't get a compact. You'll like the 52. 36 is fine for climbing.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    32 would be overkill unless you live in Pittsburg, PA. 42 is nuts. You going to be riding off road?

    Don't get a compact. You'll like the 52. 36 is fine for climbing.
    Agree 42 makes more sense for serious off road altitudes, not asphalt. At least for the majority of riders. I know one rider who is getting up there in age and she went that route, so for some it makes sense...

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avvakening View Post
    Looks like it'd just be 9% harder to pedal. That's also the main reason I went with a wider range cassette originally so that I could still have the easiest gears at their easiest if I needed them while also decreasing the necessary RPM while in max gear.
    Standard gearing, 12-28 and 52/36 will get you up any hill on that light frame, unless you weigh over 200#. 36-28 is a piece of cake. In a year you won't be needing it much.

    The 52 will be slightly easier to crank than a 50, IMO. I didn't like the 50 I used for a season once. Found the small gears harder to turn, front and rear, at high speeds. Francisco Moser set the hour speed record in 55-17. He found the larger hoops were easier to turn than the smaller cogs Eddy used, 52-14. I found 52-17 to be easier to stay on top of than 50-16, about the same gear inches.

    Go for it. The LBS can face the bb shell and head tube, if that's necessary, and install the headset and bb. The rest you could do yourself with a pedal wrench, spoke wrench, cone wrenches, and three or four allen wrenches. Get a stand, like the PS-11. When something goes amiss, you'll be able to find what it is and fix it yourself. I wouldn't depend on a bike shop for 99% of maintenance. You'll have the confidence to do it yourself.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 05-06-2017 at 04:48 PM.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Standard gearing, 12-28 and 52/36 will get you up any hill on that light frame, unless you weigh over 200#. 36-28 is a piece of cake. In a year you won't be needing it much.

    The 52 will be slightly easier to crank than a 50, IMO. I didn't like the 50 I used for a season once. Found the small gears harder to turn, front and rear, at high speeds. Francisco Moser set the hour speed record in 55-17. He found the larger hoops were easier to turn than the smaller cogs Eddy used, 52-14. I found 52-17 to be easier to stay on top of than 50-16, about the same gear inches.

    Go for it. The LBS can face the bb shell and head tube, if that's necessary, and install the headset and bb. The rest you could do yourself with a pedal wrench, spoke wrench, cone wrenches, and three or four allen wrenches. Get a stand, like the PS-11. When something goes amiss, you'll be able to find what it is and fix it yourself. I wouldn't depend on a bike shop for 99% of maintenance. You'll have the confidence to do it yourself.
    Well, even more reason to get a 52 then.

    And from what I saw online, installing the head tube actually seems simple enough. I guess it depends on what headset the fork comes with, but I'm sure I can manage it. I only plan on using my LBS if it costs more to do it myself (i.e. buying the necessary tools) like cutting a carbon fiber seat tube or if I just can't figure out how to do it. You mentioned a good point too in that when something goes wrong with any bike in the future, I'll be able to fix it myself 99% of the time instead of having to rely on my LBS or anyone else.

    Right now I really only have wrenches and allen bits. Is there anything else you'd recommend I buy and keep for the future that I won't only need for initial installation? I mean this more in the tools department as I already have things like frame lube, chain lube, WD-40 (chain degreaser), and a chain cleaning kit.

    I do really want a bike repair stand, but they're pretty expensive. Do you know of any decent stands around $30 or less? I need a torque wrench too, but I don't think there's any avoiding spending $40 on that unless I find a used one.

  8. #33
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    Did you buy a frame yet? I had not gone through all the posts. I bought a frame from Pedal Force super-light carbon bicycle that I'm real happy with.
    Waxahachie, Texas
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    "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avvakening View Post
    Well, even more reason to get a 52 then.

    And from what I saw online, installing the head tube actually seems simple enough. I guess it depends on what headset the fork comes with, but I'm sure I can manage it. I only plan on using my LBS if it costs more to do it myself (i.e. buying the necessary tools) like cutting a carbon fiber seat tube or if I just can't figure out how to do it. You mentioned a good point too in that when something goes wrong with any bike in the future, I'll be able to fix it myself 99% of the time instead of having to rely on my LBS or anyone else.

    Right now I really only have wrenches and allen bits. Is there anything else you'd recommend I buy and keep for the future that I won't only need for initial installation? I mean this more in the tools department as I already have things like frame lube, chain lube, WD-40 (chain degreaser), and a chain cleaning kit.

    I do really want a bike repair stand, but they're pretty expensive. Do you know of any decent stands around $30 or less? I need a torque wrench too, but I don't think there's any avoiding spending $40 on that unless I find a used one.
    Well lots of guys make a funky bike stand out of 2 x 4s and screw it to a workbench. I strung my bikes from the ceiling for a few years before springing for a stand. The stand is a lifetime purchase. You'll never have to replace it.

    Cheap stands are better than nothing, but they likely don't hold the bike steady, don't allow rotating the stand clamp to get the bike up where you can work on it standing up. The clamps deteriorate and scratch the frame.

    Riders install wheels with the frame upside down, but that about all. Can't do much else maintaining a bike upside down. Gotta have it off the ground to spin the crank and adjust the drivetrain, adjust brake pads, etc.

    You can install pedals with a 15 mm cone wrench. But. you'll need a pedal wrench to get the pedals off later, or snug them down if they loosen up.

    Headset races are press fit into the head tube, top and bottom. That's really tricky to do without a headset press, to get the races in there evenly all the way around. If the races aren't exactly parallel, the bike will steer in one direction when riding. The tool is probably well over $100, and you'll use it once or twice in the lifetime of the bike.

    BB shells should be "faced" so the surfaces are parallel on each side of the bb shell, the bb fits snugly, and won't work loose pedaling. The facing tools are also quite expensive and you'll use them once in the initial assembly. Most custom builders install bb and headset and mount the fork, so you don't have to deal with it.

    You probably have a chain breaker tool, right?

    Assume you determined what size fits? Confirming size via some of the fit programs online, such as Colorado Cyclist or Wrench Science, might be a cautionary step so you don't end up with a bike that will never quite fit right.

    Carbon bikes are more sensitive to being over torqued than steel or aluminum, but the torques required aren't all that high. I've been doing it by feel for years and never had a bolt come loose, except on a fender once, and a seat post bolt. The saddle kept slipping down very slowly over time, so I grabbed the automotive torque wrench and torqued the bolt to 10 foot pounds, That did it. But go ahead and buy one if you want the reassurance. Riders say carbon crushes more easily than aluminum or steel, so you have to be careful. With steel and aluminum, just turn the bolt until it stops. That's it.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 05-06-2017 at 06:25 PM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Loving View Post
    Did you buy a frame yet? I had not gone through all the posts. I bought a frame from Pedal Force super-light carbon bicycle that I'm real happy with.
    I didn't, but those are a bit too expensive. I really don't want to go more than $500 for the frame.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Well lots of guys make a funky bike stand out of 2 x 4s and screw it to a workbench. I strung my bikes from the ceiling for a few years before springing for a stand. The stand is a lifetime purchase. You'll never have to replace it.

    Cheap stands are better than nothing, but they likely don't hold the bike steady, don't allow rotating the stand clamp to get the bike up where you can work on it standing up. The clamps deteriorate and scratch the frame.

    Riders install wheels with the frame upside down, but that about all. Can't do much else maintaining a bike upside down. Gotta have it off the ground to spin the crank and adjust the drivetrain, adjust brake pads, etc.

    You can install pedals with a 15 mm cone wrench. But. you'll need a pedal wrench to get the pedals off later, or snug them down if they loosen up.

    Headset races are press fit into the head tube, top and bottom. That's really tricky to do without a headset press, to get the races in there evenly all the way around. If the races aren't exactly parallel, the bike will steer in one direction when riding. The tool is probably well over $100, and you'll use it once or twice in the lifetime of the bike.

    BB shells should be "faced" so the surfaces are parallel on each side of the bb shell, the bb fits snugly, and won't work loose pedaling. The facing tools are also quite expensive and you'll use them once in the initial assembly. Most custom builders install bb and headset and mount the fork, so you don't have to deal with it.

    You probably have a chain breaker tool, right?

    Assume you determined what size fits? Confirming size via some of the fit programs online, such as Colorado Cyclist or Wrench Science, might be a cautionary step so you don't end up with a bike that will never quite fit right.

    Carbon bikes are more sensitive to being over torqued than steel or aluminum, but the torques required aren't all that high. I've been doing it by feel for years and never had a bolt come loose, except on a fender once, and a seat post bolt. The saddle kept slipping down very slowly over time, so I grabbed the automotive torque wrench and torqued the bolt to 10 foot pounds, That did it. But go ahead and buy one if you want the reassurance. Riders say carbon crushes more easily than aluminum or steel, so you have to be careful. With steel and aluminum, just turn the bolt until it stops. That's it.
    Do framesets that include a fork usually have the fork already installed before it ships? Or at least have the press-fit parts installed?

  12. #37
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    You forgot the basics. Gear and brakes cables & casings, rim tape, set of headtube spacers (you don't want to make a first cut, a final cut).
    I verify the BB specs with the frame builder. They may put one in if you pay for it. Best route IMO

    But beyond your parts list, my honest advice would be to buy a fully assembled bicycle. You are just starting out, its time to have fun. Not days of frustration while you try to build your own bike cause you don't RIDE if your bike if it is waiting for a part or you can't get an adjustment right or a myriad of 1001 other Murphy's got yeah's. Build your next bike, if you still feel the urge. Just a another legitimate reason for N+1.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by coupster View Post
    You forgot the basics. Gear and brakes cables & casings, rim tape, set of headtube spacers (you don't want to make a first cut, a final cut).
    I verify the BB specs with the frame builder. They may put one in if you pay for it. Best route IMO

    But beyond your parts list, my honest advice would be to buy a fully assembled bicycle. You are just starting out, its time to have fun. Not days of frustration while you try to build your own bike cause you don't RIDE if your bike if it is waiting for a part or you can't get an adjustment right or a myriad of 1001 other Murphy's got yeah's. Build your next bike, if you still feel the urge. Just a another legitimate reason for N+1.
    The shifters come with shift and brake cables, but I was going to order cable housing if it doesn't come with it. I don't know what rim tape is. As for the headtube spacers, I'm going to see what comes with the frameset. If it doesn't have spacers, they're super cheap to buy.

    I already have a cheap Merax Finiss road bike so I'd have something to ride while building the new bike. I understand it'll take at least a full month to build the bike from the day of ordering the parts. In all reality, probably longer. I'm fine with using my Merax Finiss until then because there aren't any problems with it, I'm just wanting something more.

    I know I can get a very good Shimano 105 road bike for under $1k (possibly even from my LBS) and I'm probably spending at least $200 more to build my own bike, but as mentioned in some of my other posts I want to build it myself mostly for the experience of it and being able to easily make repairs myself later instead of having to go to my LBS. I think it'd also feel a lot better to ride a bike I put a lot of time and effort into build from scratch than it'd feel riding a bike someone else built.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avvakening View Post
    Do framesets that include a fork usually have the fork already installed before it ships? Or at least have the press-fit parts installed?
    I'm not sure. Others could help you with that. I would think that would be an option if you requested it. Builder might install the headset, then take the fork back out of the head tube for shipping. Then you'd stick it back in the head tube, slap the stem on, adjust so the thing steers without binding or clicking, and its done. Or sure, they'd ship it with the fork already installed.

    A competent mech at the LBS could install the bb, headset and fork for a nominal fee. $15-30? It takes about 15 minutes.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    I'm not sure. Others could help you with that. I would think that would be an option if you requested it. Builder might install the headset, then take the fork back out of the head tube for shipping. Then you'd stick it back in the head tube, slap the stem on, adjust so the thing steers without binding or clicking, and its done. Or sure, they'd ship it with the fork already installed.

    A competent mech at the LBS could install the bb, headset and fork for a nominal fee. $15-30? It takes about 15 minutes.
    Yeah, I honestly might just get the bike shop to do those things if the frame seller won't/can't. After a couple quotes I got from them before, they'd probably charge somewhere within the price range you mentioned. Even if it's $30, that really isn't much in the grand scheme of the bike's cost.

    Do you think the BB is actually worth upgrading from what would come with a low-end carbon fiber frame or am I wasting $50+LBS install costs?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avvakening View Post
    Yeah, I honestly might just get the bike shop to do those things if the frame seller won't/can't. After a couple quotes I got from them before, they'd probably charge somewhere within the price range you mentioned. Even if it's $30, that really isn't much in the grand scheme of the bike's cost.

    Do you think the BB is actually worth upgrading from what would come with a low-end carbon fiber frame or am I wasting $50+LBS install costs?
    Naw, BBs last a long time. When it loosens up 2-5 years from now, upgrade then.

    Same with all the stuff that comes with the bike. If it works, ride the hell out of it. Replace components with something better when the old stuff gets funky. By that time, who knows, you might want to spring for a new bike! N + 1. The lust is hard to contain. Or you'll have some nice components to start building up a new frame.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Naw, BBs last a long time. When it loosens up 2-5 years from now, upgrade then.

    Same with all the stuff that comes with the bike. If it works, ride the hell out of it. Replace components with something better when the old stuff gets funky. By that time, who knows, you might want to spring for a new bike! N + 1. The lust is hard to contain. Or you'll have some nice components to start building up a new frame.
    You're right. Wearing out the existing one first makes more sense. Thanks a lot for all your help.

  18. #43
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    In 11 speed you cannot mix road and mountain. The gear spacing is different so the index shifting is different and will not shift properly.
    I believe the max Shimano road cassette is 32. SRAM has a 36t cassette which is compatible. To expand your gear range and use a mtn cassette I think you can do it using a Tanpan and goat link from Wolf Tooth components. That way you can use 11 speed road shifters with mtm cassettes. I'd call them to make sure.
    Make sure your rear derailleur has a medium or long cage so you can use an expanded gear range.
    FWIW I just built up my own bike and have a 13/40 cassette in back with a compact up front. If you speak with a bike pro they will tell you the range will not work. It does but is very sensitive to chain stretch. My rear set-up is highly customized. It works for me, but I'm old (cranky) and weak after several body part replacements and rebuilds.

  19. #44
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    Last edited by Lombard; 05-25-2017 at 10:54 AM.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

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  20. #45
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    Avvakening,

    A few things on building your own bike. First and foremost, your frame choice could be much better for the money. Cheap Chinese frames and wheels are not a good idea unless you have good life insurance and all your affairs are in order. If you check out eBay, there are plenty of Orbea carbon bike frames with fork included in your size that are under $400 including shipping. Just be sure to get one that doesn't have the PITA integrated seatpost:

    Cannondale|Eddy Merckx|Giant|Masi|Norco|Orbea|Ridley|SCOTT|Trek carbon bike frame in Cycling | eBay

    Your wheels could be better for the money too. Mavics aren't the best choice. They used to be good, but their quality has fallen as of late. Some good inexpensive wheelsets are Shimano RS-21 on a shoestring, Shimano WH-6800 for not much more money. Keep in mind that these come with rim tape, so you do not need to buy that extra:

    Shimano WH-RS21 Wheelset > Components > Wheels > Road Wheels | Jenson USA

    Shimano Ultegra 6800 Tubeless Wheelset > Components > Wheels > Road Wheels | Jenson USA

    I also see a few compatibility issues with your component selections:

    Brake calipers - Mixing SRAM Apex calipers with Shimano 5800 shifters isn't a good idea. Pull ratios could be different resulting in braking that either feels mushy or grabby. Get the right calipers for those shifters:

    Shimano 105 BR-5800 Road Brakes > Components > Brakes & Shifters > Road Rim Calipers | Jenson USA

    Also, what others said about not mixing road and mountain bike groupsets is true. Once upon a time, you could do this with no problems, but Shimano changed shifting pull ratios all over the place so they are no longer compatible with each other.

    So it is important that you have 105 or Ultegra shifters mated to 105 or Ultegra derailleurs. Just be sure your rear derailleur is a GS (mid-cage) not an SS (short cage).

    Regarding your gearing choices, here is what I would do in your case:

    In order to use larger cog cassettes with your 105 rear derailleur, get a Wolf Toother Roadlink:

    Wolf Tooth Roadlink > W > Wolf Tooth Components | Jenson USA

    But check compatibility listings for the Wolf Tooth carefully. Specifically:

    11s Cassette Compatibility:
    • 11-32: Not Required (medium cage rear derailleur works)
    • 11-36: Single or Double Chainring
    • 11-40: Single or Double Chainring (front rings can be no more than 14 teeth different e.g. 48-34)
    • 11-42: Not Supported


    So, two options:

    Keep your crankset choice. The 105 52/36T sounds like a good choice since you want that 52. Change your cassette to an 11-36T. Unfortunately, only SRAM makes one of these in an 11-speed version:

    https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Speed-11...eed&th=1&psc=1

    OR:

    Go to a conventional 53/39T crankset:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KHWP3O4...SBG&th=1&psc=1

    ....and then you can go to an 11-40T Shimano cassette with the Wolf Tooth:

    Shimano XT CS-M8000 11 Speed Cassette > Components > Drivetrain > Cassettes | Jenson USA

    Both of these options will give you nearly a 1:1 ratio front to rear. You will be able to go up any paved hill this way!

    Hope some of this helps!
    Last edited by Lombard; 05-25-2017 at 11:05 AM.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

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    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  21. #46
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    No offense to the OP, but this list of parts was clearly assembled by someone who doesn't have the faintest idea what they're doing.

    My opinions to the OP and all other new cyclists attempting something similar:

    1. Go to a bike shop and buy a complete bike instead of doing this. It's almost always cheaper and you're sure to get it right.
    2. If you choose to ignore the above, don't buy the parts unless you understand exactly what size / spec you need. What kind of bottom bracket? What length stem? What bar shape do you like? What diameter seatpost do you need? Band or braze on front derailleur? Will those calipers work with those levers? Etc. If you have any doubts at all, you don't know what you're doing and you should revert to recommendation #1. In other words, revert to recommendation #1, period.

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