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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I think the whole "gateway drug" issue may be tougher to correlate with "traditional" illegal drugs now that both prescribed and non-prescribed synthetic opioids have become so prevalent. I am much more worried about the over prescribing of opiods than I am about pot.
    Yes, a much larger worry is how prescribed opiods become the gateway to illegal opiods, including heroin and other pills laced with deadly doses of fentanyl.
    This stuff kills in miniscule amounts. People making illegal drugs are not careful in dosing fentanyl, and many good Americans are dying from "one hit".

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    The lack of ambition associated with users is apparent to most coworkers and observers by the level of effing off done by their pot using associates while on the clock. Drug testing requirements indicate that these observations are shared by most employers.
    Most would acknowledge - drinking alcohol occasionally does not make one an alcoholic. And so, well adjusted adults using cannabis occasionally does not turn them into useless zombies.

    Per a recent poll, 52% of Americans have tried marijuana at some point in their lives. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ed-pot-n747476

    I'm certainly not seeing 52% of Americans "having no ambition and being a drag on society". That survey also shows most parents are more concerned with their kids smoking cigarettes than pot.

    Probably most of those 52% bought it illegally. The bigger problem is how this untaxed, unregulated massive underground activity encourages criminal activity/crime. Quality and dosing are huge variables for users with illegal pot. And the same guy selling pot may also be selling worse stuff, which is NOT the case in states where it can bought legally.

    Employers absolutely should (and do) monitor employee productivity, and take care of people that can't or won't do their job.

    I tend to think it's unfair to single out folks that may use cannabis occasionally on their own time. And by making testing a "policy", it indirectly endorses use of "legal" alcohol which may be far more detrimental than marijuana.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z'mer View Post
    Yes, a much larger worry is how prescribed opiods become the gateway to illegal opiods, including heroin and other pills laced with deadly doses of fentanyl.
    This stuff kills in miniscule amounts. People making illegal drugs are not careful in dosing fentanyl, and many good Americans are dying from "one hit".
    In Bensalam PA, the town is suing drug manufacturers for their role in the opioid crisis. I don't know if that is a winnable case but it an interesting approach. If I had any condition where the doctor suggested an opioid for pain I would think twice about filling that prescription. I have enough issues with my cycling addiction

  4. #229
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    in some ways it is dumb to be suing docs and drug makers for the outcomes of opioid proliferation in the 00s. The science of drug addiction to those meds when Rxed for chronic pain was not very well known, while the pain killing effectiveness is very well established. In hindsight we now know better, but for sure a lot of people's pain was better controlled using these meds, and the docs and pharmaco did not realise that addictions would become pandemic also. Biological beings (especially psychologically) are complex, and there is some measure of individual responsibility involved also. We can't have a society which sues for every unfortunate turn of events! it really was an accident, and the medical community has changed the standard of care for opioid Rx for some time now.

  5. #230
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    Two things.

    1. I don't think anyone is suggesting that pot is a switch that suddenly turns off all ambition. Further, it is not clear whether pot is the cause or people who lack ambition are simply attracted to pot. The real question relates to how pot affects ambition. I think it is clear that there is a spectrum of levels of ambition and a correlation between ambition and successful movement towards setting and attaining goals.

    2. I think more than 52% have been burned by touching something they had been told was hot. The more significant metric would be the percentage of casual to frequent users. Finally, it would be my guess that less than 25% of the population have a high level of ambition. Part of that may be related to the marketing of victimization and the likely negative impact it has on subscribers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Z'mer View Post
    Most would acknowledge - drinking alcohol occasionally does not make one an alcoholic. And so, well adjusted adults using cannabis occasionally does not turn them into useless zombies.

    Per a recent poll, 52% of Americans have tried marijuana at some point in their lives. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ed-pot-n747476

    I'm certainly not seeing 52% of Americans "having no ambition and being a drag on society". That survey also shows most parents are more concerned with their kids smoking cigarettes than pot.

    Probably most of those 52% bought it illegally. The bigger problem is how this untaxed, unregulated massive underground activity encourages criminal activity/crime. Quality and dosing are huge variables for users with illegal pot. And the same guy selling pot may also be selling worse stuff, which is NOT the case in states where it can bought legally.

    Employers absolutely should (and do) monitor employee productivity, and take care of people that can't or won't do their job.

    I tend to think it's unfair to single out folks that may use cannabis occasionally on their own time. And by making testing a "policy", it indirectly endorses use of "legal" alcohol which may be far more detrimental than marijuana.

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    in some ways it is dumb to be suing docs and drug makers for the outcomes of opioid proliferation in the 00s. The science of drug addiction to those meds when Rxed for chronic pain was not very well known, while the pain killing effectiveness is very well established. In hindsight we now know better, but for sure a lot of people's pain was better controlled using these meds, and the docs and pharmaco did not realise that addictions would become pandemic also. Biological beings (especially psychologically) are complex, and there is some measure of individual responsibility involved also. We can't have a society which sues for every unfortunate turn of events! it really was an accident, and the medical community has changed the standard of care for opioid Rx for some time now.
    Individual Responsibility!!!

    What kind of talk is that?
    Too old to ride plastic

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    while riding?
    https://youtu.be/Qu_rItLPTXc

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    in some ways it is dumb to be suing docs and drug makers for the outcomes of opioid proliferation in the 00s. The science of drug addiction to those meds when Rxed for chronic pain was not very well known, while the pain killing effectiveness is very well established. In hindsight we now know better, but for sure a lot of people's pain was better controlled using these meds, and the docs and pharmaco did not realise that addictions would become pandemic also. Biological beings (especially psychologically) are complex, and there is some measure of individual responsibility involved also. We can't have a society which sues for every unfortunate turn of events! it really was an accident, and the medical community has changed the standard of care for opioid Rx for some time now.
    I am not advocating suing them, just reporting. However, I do think that drug makers have to be part of the solution. I am sure they are well aware than a decent percentage of their products are being abused and sold through illegal markets. To date, they haven't done much about it.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    In Bensalam PA, the town is suing drug manufacturers for their role in the opioid crisis. I don't know if that is a winnable case but it an interesting approach. If I had any condition where the doctor suggested an opioid for pain I would think twice about filling that prescription. I have enough issues with my cycling addiction
    Last time I was prescribed pain killers after intestinal surgery, the doc gave me non-opioid pills that did the job 90% as well. She saw I'd been on opioids for months and opted to play it safe. Forgot the name, but the new pills did the job and I wasn't anxious when going off them.

    I would guess responsible drug companies are searching for alternatives to opioids. High CBD low THC pot just happens to be a pretty good one.

  10. #235
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    Too old to ride plastic

  11. #236
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    Colorado started selling recreational marijuana only 6 months before Washington, but its 16 percent rise in car accidents is more than double the rate in the Evergreen State. Meanwhile, Washington's 6.2 percent increase in traffic accidents is only 1.7 percent higher than Oregon's 4.5 percent, even though Oregon began selling recreational marijuana over a year after its northern neighbor.

    Verry inter es ting!

  12. #237
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    yeah but is that claim $ or is it claims in terms of number of claims? If it is number of claims then we have to look at severity of the accidents I think. Correlations can be nasty for having other variables, as the article notes.

    Could even be the changing west coast culture. We have not had legalized pot here and usage hasn't changed. But our prov car insurance claims are outstripping premiums by 30% - we're likely to see a 30% rise in insurance costs here in a couple years just due to so many other factors - I suspect the rise in text-driving.
    Last edited by BCSaltchucker; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:10 AM.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    yeah but is that claim $ or is it claims in terms of number of claims? If it is number of claims then we have to look at severity of the accidents I think. Correlations can be nasty for having other variables, as the article notes.

    Could even be the changing west coast culture. We have not had legalized pot here and usage hasn't changed. But our prov car insurance claims are outstripping premiums by 30% - we're likely to see a 30% rise in insurance costs here in a couple years just due to so many other factors - I suspect the rise in text-driving.
    And then there's texting while driving while stoned. Oh Boy.
    Too old to ride plastic

  14. #239
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    which is what I call text-driving above ;)

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    yeah but is that claim $ or is it claims in terms of number of claims? If it is number of claims then we have to look at severity of the accidents I think. Correlations can be nasty for having other variables, as the article notes.

    Could even be the changing west coast culture. We have not had legalized pot here and usage hasn't changed. But our prov car insurance claims are outstripping premiums by 30% - we're likely to see a 30% rise in insurance costs here in a couple years just due to so many other factors - I suspect the rise in text-driving.
    Sure, text messaging ramped up in about the same time span.

    Won't it be great when automated cars become viable? It would be another layer of protection against idiot drivers! I believe the robotics react to objects as small as pedestrians. Just think of the games a cyclist could play!

  16. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Won't it be great when automated cars become viable? It would be another layer of protection against idiot drivers!
    More like another layer of irresponsibility.
    Too old to ride plastic

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