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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Who gives a **** what pros want?! Pros ride under different conditions than the "average rider". And as I pointed out to you in the other thread, many pros train on disc brake bikes, because in the real world you don't get to use the whole road to descend and car traffic is coming at you.
    And I am an A Group rider that has been riding for over 25years and excellent descender with a 4K foot mountain with 312 turns in my backyard, that makes my opinion about brakes far more valid than your flatlander ass
    Your assumption that weaker riders are on disc is a load of crap based on the fact that newer riders buy new bikes that are more likely to have disc brakes than the seasoned guys sticking to what they already have. Not to mention disc on race geometry road bikes is a relatively new thing.
    Where I live, quite a few of the faster riders have already made the change to disc and are loving it, but we have a thing called mountains here

    Your big brand "conspiracy" can apply to anything sold on bikes, from carbon and aero frames to lighter components, etc.. Your constant reference to what pros ride and believing you need a light weight bike so you can ride flatland makes you a sheeple who is falling for the same marketing crap you accuse the manufacturers of





    You don't know what they prefer. Again, their needs in a race are different and have no bearing on whether disc brakes are good or not.



    .
    Even though you feel you need to waste your money on a slower disc brake bike, your BS was artfully written and made me laugh so you are allowed to stay.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Speed of descending has nothing to do with brake type. If you understood bike racing, you would understand. Speed of descending has to do with talent, aerodynamics and ball size of the rider.

    Well then that makes the other posters point moot as well. And as I just said, racers get to use the whole road with no fear of oncoming traffic, they don't need to brake as much as civilian riders. Their needs have no bearing on the real world, so stop using pros as a metric, it is meaningless


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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Even though you feel you need to waste your money on a slower disc brake bike, your BS was artfully written and made me laugh so you are allowed to stay.

    Yup, that 3/4 of a lbs is really holding me back



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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Yup, that 3/4 of a lbs is really holding me back
    Correction. 1 lb. Ride in cooler weather so you don't have to fill your water bottle as much. ;)

  5. #30
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    Don't bogart that joint my friend, pass it over to me!!! Where's the popcorn??? Who's got the munchies??

    WD40 is the best chain lube ever, hands down the winner!!

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by exracer View Post
    I take that to be: a carbon tubeless wheelset, electronic shifting and of course disc brakes. If you had watched the vid, apparently rim brakes are not so out of date technology. Neither is mechanical shifting. At least not on a road bike.

    No doubt disc brakes will become the preferred choice in the future and rim brakes will eventually fade. I have ridden a bike with disc brakes and I'd say they have maybe 15% more power but with better modulation. On a mountain descent, a good rider will easily make up any deficit rim brakes may have. The only true advantage they have is with carbon wheels in the wet. But then I ride with aluminum wheels and even in the wet (got plenty of wet weather riding in Houston, not that I planned it that way) my rim brakes were plenty strong. Even on group ride pace line riding 28-32mph in the pouring rain, I didn't have any fear about the lack of braking power.

    So for 99% of my everyday riding; disc brakes offer no advantage. Same goes for carbon wheels. Yeah, like they going to offer me some huge advantage in my day to day riding.
    +1 in bold.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Well then that makes the other posters point moot as well. And as I just said, racers get to use the whole road with no fear of oncoming traffic, they don't need to brake as much as civilian riders. Their needs have no bearing on the real world, so stop using pros as a metric, it is meaningless
    If you were more sensible, you would use the whole road as well. I do. I have had good luck pointing to where cars should go when coming at me as I take their lane.
    Try it. No reason to slow down. Disc brakes are for aunt Maybell.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Correction. 1 lb. Ride in cooler weather so you don't have to fill your water bottle as much. ;)
    Um, wrong! Friend has the identical rim brake version of mine and it is less than a pound difference. And as I pointed out to you before, most people are not riding weight weenie bikes, and if you are not in a race it doesn't matter anyway. Your argument is irrelevant!

    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    If you were more sensible, you would use the whole road as well. I do. I have had good luck pointing to where cars should go when coming at me as I take their lane.
    Try it. No reason to slow down. Disc brakes are for aunt Maybell.

    Right, like I'm going take the word of a flatlander. You know nothing John Snow!


    Flatland riding is just a bigger MUT


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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    If you were more sensible, you would use the whole road as well. I do. I have had good luck pointing to where cars should go when coming at me as I take their lane.
    Try it. No reason to slow down. Disc brakes are for aunt Maybell.
    I am afraid you are vastly misinformed.

    You can legally and safely take the whole Lane. It is often the only safe option.

    You cannot legally take the whole Road, and if you do you will die much sooner.

    Clear? If not, think it through.

  10. #35
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    Being a flatlander, you don't even need brakes at all. No brakes = less weight for all those hard efforts when riding up curb ramps


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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    And if the rider on the disc bike is also good?...




    .
    Then it comes down to rider vs rider moreso than who has disc brakes. Comes down to who is going to take the bigger risks. Just because some has disc brakes does not mean you are going to be first down the descent. Granted that disc brakes should make a good downhiller better but that is no guarantee.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by exracer View Post
    Then it comes down to rider vs rider moreso than who has disc brakes. Comes down to who is going to take the bigger risks. Just because some has disc brakes does not mean you are going to be first down the descent. Granted that disc brakes should make a good downhiller better but that is no guarantee.
    In your previous comment you said that a good rider could make up the deficit that rim brakes have, but that assumes that only the rim brake rider is good.
    I never said that someone on discs would automatically be faster, but all things being equal, disc could allow a good rider to take those bigger risks. In fact, I have been in that position descending where I was able to out brake a rider on rim brakes but would have had to take a big risk to get by them, which of course was not worth doing since my paycheck doesn't rely on my getting down hills or to a finish line first


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  13. #38
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    Good lord people .... What You Like Is Better. For You.

    If you are so insecure that you can only be happy with your choices if you imitate everyone and everyone imitates you ... I advise taking the whole road on fast descents.

  14. #39
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    I'm a little embarrassed for Rash that he actually thought this thread was a good idea, or would accomplish anything.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
    I am afraid you are vastly misinformed.

    You can legally and safely take the whole Lane. It is often the only safe option.

    You cannot legally take the whole Road, and if you do you will die much sooner.

    Clear? If not, think it through.
    You don't understand. I many times close down the road I ride therefore I take the road completely. In fact, I have my initials carved in many of the roads I ride.
    Last edited by 11spd; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:20 AM.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Being a flatlander, you don't even need brakes at all. No brakes = less weight for all those hard efforts when riding up curb ramps
    I think you are finally beginning to get the picture. Better riders rely less on braking. You for example would be better served to have a single front rim brake and convert your Tarmac to a fixed gear.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    I'm a little embarrassed for Rash that he actually thought this thread was a good idea, or would accomplish anything.
    Rash created this thread for me because he knew I would definitively prove that disc brakes on a road bike are like a 8 track tape player on a Harley.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    In your previous comment you said that a good rider could make up the deficit that rim brakes have, but that assumes that only the rim brake rider is good.
    I never said that someone on discs would automatically be faster, but all things being equal, disc could allow a good rider to take those bigger risks. In fact, I have been in that position descending where I was able to out brake a rider on rim brakes but would have had to take a big risk to get by them, which of course was not worth doing since my paycheck doesn't rely on my getting down hills or to a finish line first
    But extrapolating from society and including your favorite case study pro racing, only slow guys who don't care about speed ride disc brakes. Disc brake riders are the nervous 'ride the brakes' guys down the mountain and rim brake guys are cooler, take selfies and smile at their fans down descents. Disc brake guys want security and rim brake guys sometimes don't even tighten their skewers because they like to live on the edge. A different mindset. Disc riders smoke a pipe for example.

  19. #44
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    I hear grunting noises.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    I'm a little embarrassed for Rash that he actually thought this thread was a good idea, or would accomplish anything.
    I told you Rash was a troublemaker.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    But extrapolating from society and including your favorite case study pro racing, only slow guys who don't care about speed ride disc brakes. Disc brake riders are the nervous 'ride the brakes' guys down the mountain and rim brake guys are cooler, take selfies and smile at their fans down descents. Disc brake guys want security and rim brake guys sometimes don't even tighten their skewers because they like to live on the edge. A different mindset. Disc riders smoke a pipe for example.
    What are you smoking right now?
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by exracer View Post
    I take that to be: a carbon tubeless wheelset, electronic shifting and of course disc brakes. If you had watched the vid, apparently rim brakes are not so out of date technology. Neither is mechanical shifting. At least not on a road bike.
    Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I rode this entire season on tubeless road tires and now running two different sets of tubeless tires for cross, so I'm sold there. But when I get a Di2 Tarmac disc, I'll convert the carbon wheels to tubeless if they don't come that way already.

    As far as outdated tech, that wasn't mentioned in the video at all. Bikes have basically run rim brakes since they had brakes on bikes. Bikes are the only wheeled vehicle in the world that use the wheel rim as a brake rotor. Sure, being so far out on the diameter means the super weak dual pivot rim brakes are strong enough to completely stop the rim in most conditions. But that doesn't make it good or modern tech. Yes, there is a ton of tech in carbon rim brake surfaces, but only because it was necessitated by the entire world having a bike rim brake standard that needed vast improving.

    I've completely avoided carbon wheels to this point because I wanted my brakes to work. Now that there is a viable alternative mixing lightweight wheels and really strong, reliable brakes, I'm all for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    I think you are finally beginning to get the picture. Better riders rely less on braking.
    Not the case at all. Watch the GCN video. Even though the data he collects is basically useless, he does come to an accurate conclusion. Disc brake descending is faster because the brakes work more reliably and accurately every single time and takes far less effort to slow you down. No matter the conditions, the brake feel is the same every time you pull them. That way you can carry more speed into corners, brake precisely at the right moment, then accelerate out of the turn. Put pros on the same disc brake bike for 10k miles a year of training to get used to the feel and they will be faster on discs, no question.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    What are you smoking right now?
    Come on, isn't it obvious? Thanks for teeing it up for me. I am smoking you.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Troublemaker!

    I guarantee you only one thing. This will NOT be the last thread on this topic.
    LOL! And you know it. We can always hope....
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    I'm a little embarrassed for Rash that he actually thought this thread was a good idea, or would accomplish anything.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
    Don't cry for me Argentiiiiina..... Actually my goal was really to just try to move some of the debate to one designated place so that it doesn't take over the whole site. Carry on.... Did you put garlic butter on this popcorn Lombard? This stuff is good.....

    Seriously, clearly there are some people that want to talk about the topic. Now they have a place to do it.
    Last edited by Rashadabd; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:37 PM.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

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