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Passing cars at red light - Is this okay?

17K views 44 replies 34 participants last post by  chocostove 
#1 ·
No. Is my uneducated, recently converted from mtb guess.

Why the #$&^ do cyclists think they can have it both ways, e.g. demanding respect on the road - the whole "We have a right to the lane" argument... then completely ignore all driving laws and etiquette. Hey, I'm no saint - I roll stop signs and red lights if A. I'm not behind any cars (and none are coming to trip the light) and B. No cross traffic.

But damn - I am constantly seeing roadies blow past the line of cars at the red light, only to force the cars to over take them - AGAIN. No wonder motorists hate cyclists.

Am I wrong in this? Is it accepted roadie behavior or should I be calling these guys out?
 
#27 ·
danl1 said:
As a rule, it's bad form. A car or two (so that the re-pass is over within the intersections extra width) might be OK, but if there's a longer line behind that (regardless of how many you personally passed) it might make getting back into the lane messy.

There are a couple of other situations where it can be OK, like if there's a bike lane for you or a center lane for them to pass easily.

If you are gonna inconvenience someone a second time, that's a good indication that you shouldn't. Manners aside, it's just one less bumper to worry about.
Exactly! In addition passing on the right, where motorists aren't always looking for you can result in a nasty right hook.
 
#28 ·
In my city, if you have a dedicated bike lane, just stay in it and nobody cares what you do (other than running lights/signs, which is a no-no). If there's no dedicated bike lane, you can either stay to the right of cars--in the broken-glass and rock covered gutter next to a curb that wants to reach out and grab your wheels, or stay with the line of traffic. Either way, you seem to either be ignored by drivers who just see you as a fellow traveler, or despised by people who are just going to hate you no matter what. I typically do whichever feels safer at any particular time, and I don't care much who likes it.
 
#29 ·
Most of the time

I have to admit that I see the right side of the road as my lane. So at most red lights and stop signs, I do ride past the stopped cars and up to the front. But there are exceptions. If the road narrows or if there happens to be a lot of parked cars, then I will take the lane and get in line with the other cars. If the right lane becomes a turn lane, wanting to go straight through the intersection sometimes I will take the lane as well. For me it depends on the current road and traffic conditions.
Another thing is that I never see other cyclists around here take the lane with the cars and wait for the light to change as Mr_Grumpy describes. Not that his way is wrong, but I think most of our local drivers will not be comfortable with this. The drivers see us cyclists as being slow and in their way. It is my opinion that when they see us in their lane, they immediately think that we are going to impede them, even if we move to the right as soon as the light changes. In fact on several occasions drivers will make comments when I am in a left turn lane waiting for a light to change. My favorite was when a driver pulled up to my right as I was in a left turn lane, and said “You are not a car”. I politely commended him on his observation skills and told him it was fine for a cyclist to turn left from that lane.
 
#30 ·
dot said:
In London at traffic lights they put green area for bikes IN FRONT of stop lines.

Nothing wrong with going first from every traffic lights - it keeps me safe at least from those who jerk between lanes and make unpredictable moves and those who turn right. I always kind of sprint at the green. Waiting behind is also a good way to breathe in more bad air from lorries, buses and old junk.
Yes...bike lanes are set up like that here too (Lyon). We're supposed to go the front, and it would cause much more confusion amongst drivers if we didn't (and French drivers are confused enough already, no reason to add to their troubles:).

In general, though, no matter where you live it's really just a question of not doing anything to put yourself in danger: I follow that rule much more than any official traffic rules (which aren't really enforced here anyway, but that's another story). In this case, if there's room for me to get to the front, than there's room for me to stay out of the way when the cars repass me. If there's not room, than I keep my lane and do my best to keep up. Hanging out in a lane of traffic when there's enough space for a bicycle to pass safely on the right isn't good for anybody.
 
#31 ·
Depends...

If there are 25+ cars in line at rush hour and I am riding solo, I pass them all on the right and let the first 3 or 4 repass me. On a Saturday morning ride when a group of 8 or so come to a light and there are a couple of cars already there, we pull up behind them. Just try to be reasonable.:D

It often depends on how the road on the other side of the intersection is for the cars trying to repass me or us.

I didn't know that it was actually legal in all 50 states for cyclists to pass stopped cars on the right.
 
#32 ·
This thread is probably making something of nothing. Is being passed on the right by a bike when stopped really an issue for anyone other than an internet troll or someone in need of anger management help?

As the responses here indicate it's usually done with thought towards what's best for all involved (cars and bikes) and acutally is the best approach under many circumstances. So other than the OP having a hair accross his butt for no reason or just plain trolling is there any real issue here?
 
#33 ·
If the lane is suffiently wide enough to share, then I move to the front, if not I take my place in line. When cars are moving at speed I expect them to overtake me, when I am moving at speed and they are not, both my and their expectation is that I will overtake them. Stopping 12 cars lenghts back of a stop light in a lane that is wide enough to be shared is NOT an expected behavior for a cyclist in my neck of the woods. Most motorist would find that behavior confusing, not polite or lawfully compliant, just odd and unexpected.

For those that never pass on the right, when in a lane that is wide enough to share, where do you stop? Do you pull out further than the line you were just riding, then move back over when the line of traffic begins moving again? At a stop sign where the traffic is creeping along, do you pull further into the lane than the line you were riding while traffic was at speed, or do hold the same line and creep along next to the car that pulls up next to you into the backup?

Scot
 
#34 ·
It depends on the situation for me. If there's plenty of room, and a long line of cars, I'll go to the right. At that point, sitting in traffic actually annoys cars more if you cause them to miss the light because you're in front of them. If there are only a few cars, or not enough room to safely accomodate me, I'll wait in line.
 
#35 ·
Always! It's smart and safer

Just to say that lane-splitting on the right to get up to the light is *always* ok, is *the* smart thing to do and is much safer ... and healthier since you don't have to suck in all those fumes while waiting 25 cars back from the light --- if you are that guy/gal (waiting 25 cars back from the light), please stop.

Even better when there is a "bike box" at the light... and even beterer when the lights are timed so that the cyclists get an early (5 second) green before the cars! That's how bikes were meant to roll!
 
#36 ·
Scot_Gore said:
If the lane is suffiently wide enough to share, then I move to the front, if not I take my place in line.
I should have mentioned two things in my previous reply:

1. On the roads I regularly ride, the lane is almost never wide enough to share. Many of them are county roads that are barely wide enough for two vehicles to meet and pass in their respective lanes.

2. On the roads I regularly ride, more than two or three cars waiting for a light, or working their way through a four-way stop, is a rarity. I can't remember the last time I would have been 25 spots back from an intersection. Probably never.

We have virtually no bike lanes around here, and not that many cyclists. So I ride like I'm any other vehicle largely because the local motorists don't encounter enough cyclists to anticipate or understand the practices that many of the replies here describe.
 
#37 ·
Oxtox said:
I do it regularly.

it seems to generate less hostility than being in a line of cars and then not accelerating as fast as the dude behind me thinks I need to...
That makes no logical sense. All you are doing is changing which dude is behind you to him PLUS all those in front of him.

Also, you can jump at the change faster than all the cars, so the first pedal stroke moves you right into where you'd normally travel. Result: as few as possible people inconvenienced by your presence.

No, it's not a big deal. On the other hand it costs you nothing, and is a nicety to those around you.

I don't understand folks that go out of their way to inconvenience others at no gain to themselves. And riding up the right doesn't really present a gain, unless you'd otherwise miss the light cycle.

And if you are further than a light cycle back, all the more reason NOT to do it. Your longer time clearing the intersection (because you won't approach it at speed) will inconvenience others by making still more of them miss the light, slowing the overall flow of traffic. And that's just plain being a pr!ck.

I'm not playing holier-than-thou - do what you want. But actions do have consequences, and these aren't likely to turn in your favor.
 
#38 ·
I never have the problem of 'rush hour' traffic since I live in the suburbs of Glendora, CA, but I generally stay with the laws of the road that cars follow. I'm also lucky enough to have bike lanes through out my city that help reduce the risk of landing on a hood ( though I've been there before and it's never fun).

But I generally pull to the right when I reach a red light when I'm riding solo, and continue to stay to the right until the majority of the cars have repassed me and I gain back my speed and momentum.

Has anyone been pulled over by a cop when on a bike? I blasted through a 4 way stop sign where no other cars where waiting only to be literally pulled over by a d-bag cop... Anyone else have this problem?
 
#39 ·
The original poster said:
I am constantly seeing roadies blow past the line of cars at the red light, only to force the cars to over take them​
If a cyclist can blow past the line of cars at the red light, then, by demonstration, the lane is wide enough for a car and a bike to share.

Allez mentioned that there is never adequate lane width to pass on the right so he/she dosn't, makes sense to me, that's my behavior as well where adequate space is not available. I am curious is there a cyclist anywhere when presented with adequate space DOES NOT pass on the right.

Who's dropping in behind (or next to) the tan Honda and waiting for the light at the top of the hill?
 
#40 ·
Scot_Gore said:
Who's dropping in behind (or next to the tan Honda) and waiting for the light at the top of the hill?
Not me, if our roads had shoulders that wide. That's a defacto bike lane, whether it's marked as such or not.

What I'm taking away from this thread is the importance of complying with local standards and practices. For example, in a city that has bike boxes and advance-green lights for bikes, not riding up to the box and waiting with the other cyclists would confuse motorists because it would be non-standard behavior. (It could also lead to thoughts like, "Geesh, our taxes paid to have those bike boxes painted, why isn't this jackass waiting in front of me using it?") For me, trying to squeeze by on the right when there's not really room is going to annoy motorists, not to mention putting me in danger because they won't expect me to be there.

And by the way, I'm a "he." :)
 
#41 ·
Scot_Gore said:
The original poster said:

I'm with Allez Rouge on the shoulders in that pic. Here we either have a bike lane, or a sidewalk (illegal riding). And in areas that rural looking, we just have the 2 lanes. Also, our lanes tend to be too narrow and most people think they're good enough drivers to pass regardless of how narrow the lane is. Here you either take your lane or you allow dangerous things to happen around you.
 
#42 ·
With Toronto having one of the worst traffic congestion situations in North America, the whole beauty of riding a bike is the ability to pass long lines of stopped vehicles. Since I can move faster than the traffic, there's never an issue of having a car repass me :D
 
#43 ·
That's a shoulder in the picture. One of the cyclist benefits of living in a place that gets snow and requires lots of plowing is they tend to build more of the roads with some degree of shoulder. That way the plow blade can completely clear the traffic lane and still be scaping pavement across it's entire horizontal run and people can't put a mailbox post right next to the white line. That little bit of investment in pavement makes the equipment last longer and saves money.

Scot
 
#44 ·
bikerjulio said:
With Toronto having one of the worst traffic congestion situations in North America, the whole beauty of riding a bike is the ability to pass long lines of stopped vehicles. Since I can move faster than the traffic, there's never an issue of having a car repass me :D
And that's an excellent point: It really depends on a lot of things, congestion included. In pure gridlock, you are doing folks a favor. In "busy" traffic though, it's probably less helpful. Most of my commuting route is on a 2-lane with non-existent shoulders and sometimes awful road quality. Passing a bike is an inconvenience. A mild one, sure, but why inconvenience another at all if it's avoidable?

The earlier note that "if the cyclist can pass the stopped cars, then de facto the cars can safely pass the cyclists at speed" was made by someone whom I can only assume rides only on well-groomed MUT's, because it's not so on my planet on the real roads. First, I have much better visibility of the interaction, and much finer control of the steering than the car does. Second, I'm not creating a slipstream that can pull the other vehicle off of their line and into traffic, road furniture, obstructions, or other imperfections.

Stamper's "Does this really matter" makes me question whether he and I ride the same roads. Around here, it's not at all uncommon to see cars in the lane of slowing / stopping traffic hook right to block the bike they've just passed from riding up. I'm not saying that's right, only that there are obviously people with strong opionions on the matter, and arguing with a couple of tons of metal is an act poorly considered.
 
#45 ·
Where I live, most roads are fairly wide with room for both a car and a bike to share a lane with the bike being at least 12 inches from the gutter and at least 2.5 to 3 feet from a cyclist. As long as that remains a constant I stay to the right, red light or not. When the roads pinch as you approach the intersection or develop a right turn lane I take a lane and get in queue with the other traffic.

I find I like to assert my place on the road. I'd rather be the first off the front and set my place on the road. Cars seem to like lines. For me the sooner I set my visual line against the white center line and the distance from the gutter, the sooner each motorist can get past me without trying to crawl past me like a cow ready to walk out in front of them.

This a pattern based on consistency for where I live and it works with the streets here.
There is a lot of variables that make it work. I think you kinda have to wing it based on the drivers in your area. Each city has a different "feel" when it comes to bike acceptance.

I also find that in a place with constant and widespread road construction, pulling up on the right on red gets you past rough spots safer and faster so everyone in queue moves more smoothly. Plus I'm faster off the line anyways ;-)

Another reason I like to be at the front is to avoid the dreaded right hook.
 
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