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  1. #1
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    Power higher but less comfortable after fit

    I had back pain that would show up after ~20 miles. Not bad, it would go away if I got up off the saddle for a few seconds, then I'd have to repeat that every few miles, but not perfect so I thought I'd try to get a fit and see if it got better.

    So I got the fit and my back pain got worse (showed up around the ~10 mile mark and just got worse). That, and I started getting some knee pain. They moved the saddle up like 2mm and moved it forward about a half inch. I don't know if I should go back and get it adjusted again or give myself time to acclimate? My power levels are a full 10-15% higher at the same heart rate (5+ rides all the same result, not a placebo as far as I can tell) so SOMETHING improved but my back gets sore earlier and I haven't had knee pain in years yet I'm having it now. The knee pain goes away after like 10 miles when I'm fully warmed up but I never had it at all before.

    edit: they didn't move the saddle that far forward, maybe 5mm. I was mistaken. I haven't ridden yet but I moved the saddle back as far as it goes, hopefully that's enough.
    Last edited by thisisthebeave; 04-09-2018 at 01:55 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisthebeave View Post
    give myself time to acclimate?
    This.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    This.
    and go easy during adapatation period.
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  4. #4
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    Moving the saddle forward should have alleviated the back pain, but I can also understand how it resulted in knee pain as you're definitely putting more stress on the muscles near the knee and the knee joint.

    I would agree to go easy for a few weeks (small chainring, higher rpm's). If you then return to your regular gears and riding and the pain returns, I'd move the saddle back to the original position as I think they moved it too far forward, too soon.

    Then I'd try moving it forward 5mm every 1-2 months and see what happens. Even 5mm is a significant change in fore/aft.

  5. #5
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    An interesting dichotomy if not dilemma. That's what you get for having an advanced fitting with power measured.

    Seriously, any change that manifests pain is bad. I am not really in the acclimation camp like others. Any fit changes that manifest pain should be avoided because pain is a precursor to injury you want to avoid at all costs.

    Hard to understand why the change you describe would manifest pain. Only thing that comes to mind is you shortened your cockpit which doesn't agree with your back, because a slightly more open hip angle one would think would be easier on the back.

    You may simply have an anatomical issue if you were getting pain before at the 20 mile mark.

    So we would need to learn more about you. Your conditioning, weight relative to height, how you train, if you do any off the bike core training which in my experience is huge for back pain...see if you can hold a plank for 2 minutes for example...if not start doing them. And of course the aggressivity of your fit which is huge for back and neck pain...why recreational riders typically ride more upright than racers...they don't have the strength of conditioning to endure an aggressive set up.

    Good luck

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisthebeave View Post
    I had back pain that would show up after ~20 miles. Not bad, it would go away if I got up off the saddle for a few seconds, then I'd have to repeat that every few miles, but not perfect so I thought I'd try to get a fit and see if it got better.

    So I got the fit and my back pain got worse (showed up around the ~10 mile mark and just got worse). That, and I started getting some knee pain. They moved the saddle up like 2mm and moved it forward about a half inch. I don't know if I should go back and get it adjusted again or give myself time to acclimate? My power levels are a full 10-15% higher at the same heart rate (5+ rides all the same result, not a placebo as far as I can tell) so SOMETHING improved but my back gets sore earlier and I haven't had knee pain in years yet I'm having it now. The knee pain goes away after like 10 miles when I'm fully warmed up but I never had it at all before.
    This would explain your knee pain. I would not ignore this.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    This.
    Acclimate to knee pain? For real?
    I think that's a pretty poor idea.

  8. #8
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    I agree. Don't work through the pain, especially joint pain.

    I'd move the saddle back to a more neutral KOPS position and start working with the cockpit to address the back issues. Stem orientation/length, perhaps different bars with a shallower reach...

    I'd also work heavily on core strength and flexibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Acclimate to knee pain? For real?
    I think that's a pretty poor idea.
    I should've expanded my reply. It depends on the type and severity of pain. If it's the type of muscle fatigue (we all know what that is) from doing something new, then give it time. If it's sharp pain concentrated in small spot, then stop and go back to the fitter. OP did say, "So I got the fit and my back pain got worse (showed up around the ~10 mile mark and just got worse). That, and I started getting some knee pain" ... "The knee pain goes away after like 10 miles when I'm fully warmed up but I never had it at all before."

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    If your back pain got worse and you started getting knee pain I would set the bike back to how it was originally.
    I used to have back pain then I strengthened my core...crunches and planks. I got to where I could hold in the plank position for 5 minutes...no more back pain!

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokersteve View Post
    I used to have back pain then I strengthened my core...crunches and planks. I got to where I could hold in the plank position for 5 minutes...no more back pain!
    This was what I was wondering. Has the OP done anything to strengthen his core? Planks, superman, and a nifty little exercise where you lie on your back and try to push the small of your back into the floor. I used to get aching back pain from downhill skiing. I did these exercises and it totally went away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    An interesting dichotomy if not dilemma. That's what you get for having an advanced fitting with power measured.

    Seriously, any change that manifests pain is bad. I am not really in the acclimation camp like others. Any fit changes that manifest pain should be avoided because pain is a precursor to injury you want to avoid at all costs.

    Hard to understand why the change you describe would manifest pain. Only thing that comes to mind is you shortened your cockpit which doesn't agree with your back, because a slightly more open hip angle one would think would be easier on the back.

    You may simply have an anatomical issue if you were getting pain before at the 20 mile mark.

    So we would need to learn more about you. Your conditioning, weight relative to height, how you train, if you do any off the bike core training which in my experience is huge for back pain...see if you can hold a plank for 2 minutes for example...if not start doing them. And of course the aggressivity of your fit which is huge for back and neck pain...why recreational riders typically ride more upright than racers...they don't have the strength of conditioning to endure an aggressive set up.

    Good luck
    A little about me... 6'6" 230lbs, started at 260lbs (big chest/arms from weight lifting, never been overweight, just stopped lifting as much). I had more back pain when I started that was either from lack of conditioning or a heavier upper body that strained my back. I have been riding ~5 years, 4-5k miles per year (about 1k of that is mountain biking and 1-2k is CX on gravel or easier singletrack). I've ridden a couple centuries. Enthusiast, but I know tons of people who ride more.

    I just tried a plank and got to about 75 seconds before I just didn't want to be doing it anymore. Could have held 10-15 more seconds if I really had to. Not 2 mins either way

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisthebeave View Post
    A little about me... 6'6" 230lbs, started at 260lbs (big chest/arms from weight lifting, never been overweight, just stopped lifting as much). I had more back pain when I started that was either from lack of conditioning or a heavier upper body that strained my back. I have been riding ~5 years, 4-5k miles per year (about 1k of that is mountain biking and 1-2k is CX on gravel or easier singletrack). I've ridden a couple centuries. Enthusiast, but I know tons of people who ride more.

    I just tried a plank and got to about 75 seconds before I just didn't want to be doing it anymore. Could have held 10-15 more seconds if I really had to. Not 2 mins either way
    A pretty darn good first foray at a plank I will say there big fella.

    Another question. Most that ride mountain bikes ride them more upright than their road bike. Would you say this it true of you? How much saddle to bar drop do you have on your road bike and how much on your mountain bike?

    Do you have pain riding your mountain bike after 20 miles?

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    Being a victim myself, I'm going to suggest the possibility of arthritis.
    Last edited by Finx; 04-03-2018 at 06:11 PM.

  15. #15
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    Knee pain in front, back, side?

    Back pain located low, mid, upper?

    Did your cleat position change?

    With moving forward did you increase reach as well or leave the stem length the same?

    Core strength is a given but, good core or not, doesn't explain the increase in pain overnight. Moving forward 1-2cm with virtually the same saddle height can recruit more quads which could be part of the problem. Increasing quad recruitment with poor knee tracking from your cleats up is where I'm going.

    1-2cm closer to the bars (if that's the case) could be a contributing factor to lower back pain if that's where your pain is located. The less distance from saddle to bars a rider will compensate by rounding their back and many times, if they don't know how to sit on a saddle, hold the pelvis rotated back too much.

    Just some thoughts to consider. Honestly it's way too complex to diagnose here. Best go back to the fitter and chat with them.

  16. #16
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    This has a lot of confounding variables. Did OP get knee/back pain from saddle positional change? Or did OP get the pain due to him trying to increase his power? When one increases power, it requires one to pedal harder and thus there will be more strain on the back/knee no matter how you slice it and dice it.

    If I were the OP, I would try a few options:

    1. set the saddle back to the original settings and see if the pain goes away. It may take a week or longer for the current pain to resolve it self (back and knee pain can linger!).

    2. after the pain has gone away, then OP should try to increase his power by 10%. Now obverse if the back/pain returns. If the pain returns, then it could just mean that it is due to the effort imparted by the 10% power increase. (If the pain does not ever go away, well then, may the issue is the OP's back/knee and not saddle adjustment, but I doubt this).

    3. leave the saddle in its new position, and decrease your power effort by 10%-15%, essentially what the original power of the OP was. If the pain goes away, then it could just mean that it is the power increase that cause the pain and not necessarily the new saddle position.

    The question here is, did the pain manifest from a saddle position change or did it manifest from a power increase? 10-15% power increase is a lot without pondering about how this would impose a strain on the body.

    The pain may eventually go away after a period of acclimatization. But, it could also worsen due to prolong wear on the body.

    FYI: Chris Froome when he first moved to Sky, they also moved his saddle up and forward a bit, resulting in him getting back pain too. So then they moved it back to original position. I'm not sure why they moved his saddle though, maybe due to aero positioning because his power has remained essentially the same.

  17. #17
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    A 10-15 percent increase in performance is a lot. That said if your body can't accommodate the fit that generates it you have to adjust or change the fit. However, if you pain problems go away after a few days of rest keep trying to ride at perhaps shorter distances to give your body a couple of weeks to acclimate.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisthebeave View Post
    I had back pain that would show up after ~20 miles. Not bad, it would go away if I got up off the saddle for a few seconds, then I'd have to repeat that every few miles, but not perfect so I thought I'd try to get a fit and see if it got better.

    So I got the fit and my back pain got worse (showed up around the ~10 mile mark and just got worse). That, and I started getting some knee pain. They moved the saddle up like 2mm and moved it forward about a half inch. I don't know if I should go back and get it adjusted again or give myself time to acclimate? My power levels are a full 10-15% higher at the same heart rate (5+ rides all the same result, not a placebo as far as I can tell) so SOMETHING improved but my back gets sore earlier and I haven't had knee pain in years yet I'm having it now. The knee pain goes away after like 10 miles when I'm fully warmed up but I never had it at all before.

    Boy, I sure can empathize with you here.

    Been riding 3+ decades. In just this last decade, as I got older, I started wondering about my position on the bike---especially nagging back pain that would come on whether riding easy and/or hard. Yes, maybe some of that pain had to do with a major accident I had when on the bike (got hit head-on at high speed by a tipsy driver, not fun), but, fought back & recovered over the years from that. Alas, the niggling back pain wouldn't go away (and would get worse sometimes, which always flummoxed me).

    I then decided--haha, like it was a revelation---that I wasn't young anymore, and I couldn't just ignore things on the bike. What I mean is, when I was young and raced, I probably wouldn't have cared about most anything as the only thing I knew was racing & riding at full tilt, in the grip of fury & pain, if you will. Basically, darn be to anything that got in the way of that fury on the bike (deceptively increasing pain too, which, granted, this is really stupid to ignore...but, hey, youth is, well, wasted on the youth.....)

    Anyhow, in my new 'enlightened' older state, I came up with aplan: I started coming forward with my seat, raising it while doing so. I followed the old saw rule (I think I read it on Steve Hogg's site) that for every 3mm forward or back, your seat should move 1mm higher and/or lower. In my inifinite wisdom to be a dumba## sometimes, I thought, let's get this ball rolling. So, I went 15mm forward on the first move, and 5mm higher seat. Drumroll for the "DumbA## Conga Line" commenced, and I was leading it.

    I felt good at first, back pain lessened, and my power jumped up like yours---repeated rides I kept setting personal best times. Then, knee pain started. At first I ignored it, tried to do a lot of spinning, many weeks of spinning, but it didn't help as things got worse. So, I spun more, many months more, told myself I am going to conquer this. Still didn't help.

    Knee pain finally got bad enough that I got scared, and I finally had a "yell" session with myself on what I was trying to do. So, I went back to the original setting. Knee pain disappeared, but then the niggling back pain started again.

    So, I sat down and re-thought this: told myself to quit being an idiot, and go slow. After having went back to the original position, this time, I only went 3mm forward, and 1mm seat raised. Rode easy for a month like that. All seemed ok, but my power numbers didn't return when I tested (rode hard) for a few weeks.

    Thus, second month, moved seat forward another 3mm, raised seat another 1mm. Also again rode another month easy like this, keeping spin levels between 80-110rpm. Like previously, after a month of "Spin City", I did a few weeks of testing (riding hard). Power still didn't return like I had seen it with the 15mm move forward, and 5mm raised seat. Thought maybe I had imagined it all.

    Finally, third month, moved seat forward another 3mm, and up another 1mm. Again rode east (spinning, high cadence) for 4 weeks. Then, I tested myself riding hard, and voila, BINGO-BANGO, I started seeing those power numbers again. Test courses on my rides, I was hitting PBs again.

    I thought, dang, I actually did it right this time.

    Several weeks later, though, the knee pain came back. With a vengeance.

    Chagrined, the knee pain would not stop---no matter how many months I keep only doing rides of high cadence, easy spinning, which I did. The pain didn't stop until I got back to the original position that I started from. But, of course, the niggling back pain came back.


    I now think, since I spent over 2+ decades with one bike position, that my body is locked into this. Especially hip, knee relation, and all tendons & ligaments associated with that. And this despite me being a flexible, limber person (elbows on floor, super flexy spine sort of thing). The hardware has been set, so to speak, while the software (muscles) are still somewhat adaptable.

    There are days I wonder about those power numbers I saw, but I have to force them out of my mind. If I only could have caught this when I was young, experimented then, I believe things would be different now.


    Moral of story: I am too old now to risk moving things around, as my cycling will suffer. Things are not bad in any way, shape and/or form, but yes, as aforementioned, I think about that increased power numbers I saw and I wonder
    Last edited by BelgianHammer; 04-03-2018 at 01:46 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelgianHammer View Post
    Boy, I sure can empathize with you here.

    Been riding 3+ decades. In just this last decade, as I got older, I started wondering about my position on the bike---especially nagging back pain that would come on whether riding easy and/or hard. Yes, maybe some of that pain had to do with a major accident I had when on the bike (got hit head-on at high speed by a tipsy driver, not fun), but, fought back & recovered over the years from that. Alas, the niggling back pain wouldn't go away (and would get worse sometimes, which always flummoxed me).

    I then decided--haha, like it was a revelation---that I wasn't young anymore, and I couldn't just ignore things on the bike. What I mean is, when I was young and raced, I probably wouldn't have cared about most anything as the only thing I knew was racing & riding at full tilt, in the grip of fury & pain, if you will. Basically, darn be to anything that got in the way of that fury on the bike (deceptively increasing pain too, which, granted, this is really stupid to ignore...but, hey, youth is, well, wasted on the youth.....)

    Anyhow, in my new 'enlightened' older state, I came up with aplan: I started coming forward with my seat, raising it while doing so. I followed the old saw rule (I think I read it on Steve Hogg's site) that for every 3mm forward or back, your seat should move 1mm higher and/or lower. In my inifinite wisdom to be a dumba## sometimes, I thought, let's get this ball rolling. So, I went 15mm forward on the first move, and 5mm higher seat. Drumroll for the "DumbA## Conga Line" commenced, and I was leading it.

    I felt good at first, back pain lessened, and my power jumped up like yours---repeated rides I kept setting personal best times. Then, knee pain started. At first I ignored it, tried to do a lot of spinning, many weeks of spinning, but it didn't help as things got worse. So, I spun more, many months more, told myself I am going to conquer this. Still didn't help.

    Knee pain finally got bad enough that I got scared, and I finally had a "yell" session with myself on what I was trying to do. So, I went back to the original setting. Knee pain disappeared, but then the niggling back pain started again.

    So, I sat down and re-thought this: told myself to quit being an idiot, and go slow. After having went back to the original position, this time, I only went 3mm forward, and 1mm seat raised. Rode easy for a month like that. All seemed ok, but my power numbers didn't return when I tested (rode hard) for a few weeks.

    Thus, second month, moved seat forward another 3mm, raised seat another 1mm. Also again rode another month easy like this, keeping spin levels between 80-110rpm. Like previously, after a month of "Spin City", I did a few weeks of testing (riding hard). Power still didn't return like I had seen it with the 15mm move forward, and 5mm raised seat. Thought maybe I had imagined it all.

    Finally, third month, moved seat forward another 3mm, and up another 1mm. Again rode east (spinning, high cadence) for 4 weeks. Then, I tested myself riding hard, and voila, BINGO-BANGO, I started seeing those power numbers again. Test courses on my rides, I was hitting PBs again.

    I thought, dang, I actually did it right this time.

    Several weeks later, though, the knee pain came back. With a vengeance.

    Chagrined, the knee pain would not stop---no matter how many months I keep only doing rides of high cadence, easy spinning, which I did. The pain didn't stop until I got back to the original position that I started from. But, of course, the niggling back pain came back.


    I now think, since I spent over 2+ decades with one bike position, that my body is locked into this. Especially hip, knee relation, and all tendons & ligaments associated with that. And this despite me being a flexible, limber person (elbows on floor, super flexy spine sort of thing). The hardware has been set, so to speak, while the software (muscles) are still somewhat adaptable.

    There are days I wonder about those power numbers I saw, but I have to force them out of my mind. If I only could have caught this when I was young, experimented then, I believe things would be different now.


    Moral of story: I am too old now to risk moving things around, as my cycling will suffer. Things are not bad in any way, shape and/or form, but yes, as aforementioned, I think about that increased power numbers I saw and I wonder
    I think this story is a good lesson to all of us. Increased power may be worth something, but a painless body is priceless.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I think this story is a good lesson to all of us. Increased power may be worth something, but a painless body is priceless.
    I agree it's a good lesson however, more along the lines of what not to do. There is a reason people have knee pain and back pain and foot pain etc...DIY fitting by moving only the saddle height and setback is like trying to stop rust by painting over it. There's more to it than that.

    I know riding pain free is not a function of low power. Any rider should be able to ride pain free while pushing low or high power (relative to them). With that said, if you are able to generate incredible power numbers over time and have a weak core say, bad things will eventually happen. So is pain a function of position, adaptation, core strength, or some combination? Obviously it's a combination so when you change one you have to look at the others.

    All I know is when I put out really good power number (for me) I'm very comfortable. No way could I generate higher power with back or knee pain. Comfort=power. Something else is going on with the OP and perhaps BelgianHammer I suspect. Moving the saddle 2mm up and 1.25cm forward would be easy to compensate for by moving your position on the saddle. For all we know the OP is sitting on the saddle properly for the first time. Maybe sitting on the saddle differently is causing the knee to track differently which will def have a tendency to increase back pain over time.

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    I find that lower quadriceps tightness is often mistaken for "knee pain," but yes be careful. I am a big proponent of rearward and lower saddle positions. It promotes a flat, not arched back. It encourages core activation. It spreads the work between the quadriceps and glutes and reduces knee flexion.

    Furthermore, getting lower on the bike makes you more aero / faster.
    Last edited by ceugene; 04-03-2018 at 03:52 PM.

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    My experience with bike fitting is they have good rules for positioning the seat, but then leave it to you to determine cockpit positioning (does that feel comfortable...). There has been some good advice about adjusting your seat position - and I would follow that to address the knee pain.

    But I think looking at the cockpit might be the solution for the back pain. The first thing you might consider is changing your stem to get a more upright riding position. You can test this without changing the stem by riding on the horizontals rather than the hoods or drops. See of that helps. Also, check your reach. Too much or too little reach can put pressure on your back. You have two options. First, return to the bike fitter and get them to work more on your cockpit position. Second, google bike fitting and reach to get instructions of how to adjust your position. Here is a link that talks about how reach adjustment will affect your back pain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ34hed0qBw

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodys737 View Post
    All I know is when I put out really good power number (for me) I'm very comfortable. No way could I generate higher power with back or knee pain. Comfort=power. Something else is going on with the OP and perhaps BelgianHammer I suspect. Moving the saddle 2mm up and 1.25cm forward would be easy to compensate for by moving your position on the saddle. For all we know the OP is sitting on the saddle properly for the first time. Maybe sitting on the saddle differently is causing the knee to track differently which will def have a tendency to increase back pain over time.

    This is the problem with couch and internet research and cerain posters here on RBR (and other forums). A decade and half racing Colstrop/Mapei division level farm teams in the 90s says different. The amount of pain we pro-level riders are in.......you have no idea what you're talking about. I remember countless training rides with Tommeke (yes, that one, Boonen, when he was a junior freaking us all out) where we, the group, had to stop for a goodly amount of time because his back was driving him insane. At positions that took away that pain, he lost power...substantial power, no less. Wooody, you've done this in other threads, but you really need to learn when Internet/couch advice might be off the mark. And this is one of them. If you want an idea of what Continental and Pro-level riders go through, body-wise, pain-level wise, power-wise, not because they are fitted on the bike wrong, but because of the whole taco put together, then spend time with riders who've actually done it.

    I'm here to tell you firsthand what you wrote sounds all fine & dandy, but it is so far from reality that it isn't even funny. Power and comfort are something that has developed in the minds of marketing gurus and the people (internet couch potatoes) who know no better. There is "comfort" to a certain point....but when you're putting out power numbers that we did (and they continue to improve upon today), it is often times more than not those power numbers can be made higher at a position & cost where "body pain" enters the equation at a higher degree. Ask no less than Eddy, who spent decades fiddling with his saddle based on how he felt that day. He had spoken to us, myself a few times individually, and reiterated the same thing.

    Just don't go and presume you know more than him, than others (you know, those who've been there & done that), than those specialists on the teams who helped us get through. Yes, they make mistakes. But more times than not, their level of intimate knowledge far surpasses what is assumed by internet wonders/couch potatoes.

    I go away from this forum for a few years, and still, come back to some of the same silliness espoused in postings that existed years before.

    It's disappointing.


    P.S. And please know this is not meant as an attack, I am just asking that sometimes would certain people stop themselves & truly think before they post something.

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    You're both arguing black and white. Some types of pain like extreme muscle fatigue, and soft tissue damage from rough surfaces, yes that's not fit related. But comparing the .01% that are elite/pro cyclists to people on a cycling forum, that's cuckoo. Sharp pains that develop in the middle of otherwise familiar rides are, gasp, probably fit related. It's a common mistake for the new/inexperienced cyclist to position their saddle too low and forward. It's a common mistake for a cyclist trying to emulate an aesthetic to position their saddle too high. One causes excessive knee flexion and the other causes hyperextension. Saddle position will also cause accelerated fatigue in certain muscle groups.

    Also, I hesitate in looking to past pros for advice on biomechanics. Modern researchers have a tough enough time grasping how human bodies move and adapt, so I don't expect superstitious pro athletes to have much real insight.

  25. #25
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelgianHammer View Post
    This is the problem with couch and internet research and cerain posters here on RBR (and other forums). A decade and half racing Colstrop/Mapei division level farm teams in the 90s says different. The amount of pain we pro-level riders are in.......you have no idea what you're talking about. I remember countless training rides with Tommeke (yes, that one, Boonen, when he was a junior freaking us all out) where we, the group, had to stop for a goodly amount of time because his back was driving him insane. At positions that took away that pain, he lost power...substantial power, no less. Wooody, you've done this in other threads, but you really need to learn when Internet/couch advice might be off the mark. And this is one of them. If you want an idea of what Continental and Pro-level riders go through, body-wise, pain-level wise, power-wise, not because they are fitted on the bike wrong, but because of the whole taco put together, then spend time with riders who've actually done it.

    I'm here to tell you firsthand what you wrote sounds all fine & dandy, but it is so far from reality that it isn't even funny. Power and comfort are something that has developed in the minds of marketing gurus and the people (internet couch potatoes) who know no better. There is "comfort" to a certain point....but when you're putting out power numbers that we did (and they continue to improve upon today), it is often times more than not those power numbers can be made higher at a position & cost where "body pain" enters the equation at a higher degree. Ask no less than Eddy, who spent decades fiddling with his saddle based on how he felt that day. He had spoken to us, myself a few times individually, and reiterated the same thing.

    Just don't go and presume you know more than him, than others (you know, those who've been there & done that), than those specialists on the teams who helped us get through. Yes, they make mistakes. But more times than not, their level of intimate knowledge far surpasses what is assumed by internet wonders/couch potatoes.

    I go away from this forum for a few years, and still, come back to some of the same silliness espoused in postings that existed years before.

    It's disappointing.


    P.S. And please know this is not meant as an attack, I am just asking that sometimes would certain people stop themselves & truly think before they post something.
    Obviously, my writing skills are not good as I'm not good at conveying information. When I wrote "all I know" as your average couch potato/internet wonder it's based off some relationships I've developed over years with people like:

    Paraic McGlynn who is the owner of Cyclologic here in Scottsdale. He has devoted his life to fitting pros and joes and has developed a good reputation. I say good because Trek Factory Racing uses him to help fit the World Tour Team. Comfort=power is from him.

    Eric Marcotte is a pro who currently rides for UHC but more importantly my relationship goes back to 2010 when he helped get me back riding after a particularly debilitating back injury due to poor bike fit and not properly maintaining core. He is somewhat unique in that he has a chiropractic business and (ask anyone) has devoted his life/time helping athletes to avoid seeing him when sports related injury gets to the point they can't perform. He's a huge proponent of numerous ways to be proactive to prevent injury on the bike. Comfort=power comes from him.

    Lastly, I am friends with the McNulty family. I have watched Brandon develop into the rider he is today. I ride with his Dad and from time to time Brandon himself. Just did a local race with him a few weeks back. Comfort=power comes from him.

    So perhaps in the 90's it was about pain. From my conversations and experience with these three individuals and many more in the industry (behind the scenes so-to-speak) that's not the norm today.

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