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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    I think the punchline is: Pointing is more effective than yelling.
    I've never found yelling at the hole to be very effective.

  2. #27
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    I'm in the moving-left-pointing-down-with-right-hand-while-yelling-hole camp. Like someone else mentioned, pointing usually helps only the first couple of riders, hearing a warning, even if you can't tell exactly what he said will (hopefully) alert riders to stay in line.
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

  3. #28
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    Usually going too fast to do anything but point and move a little left. When someone yells, that makes me nervous, because it means something bad is going to happen.

  4. #29
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    Bobke's suggestiions
    Too old to ride plastic

  5. #30
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    As an experienced cyclist, but 90% mountain biker this is something that i struggle with. On mtbs you cannot expect someone else to be responsible for your line choice, but it's common to follow 3" off another expert on climbs or 6' off them on technical descents. When people call out road features to me it messes me up; i'm already following in a way where i can react to obstacles (and i'm totally wired to PAY ATTENTION), so i assume a signal is because something is unexpected and disastrous, not the obstacle i already see.

    Leading i'll just quietly move the pace line around an obstacle and never say a word. I've been chastised once or twice for not signaling debris and i just don't know when to mention it.



    On the other hand, i had some jackass brake check me the other day because i drafted him for a moment before i passed him. Roadie etiquette is a mystery.
    Last edited by bubble; 04-01-2018 at 08:40 PM.

  6. #31
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    I generally only point to small road hazards. I point AND yell out the large tire swallowing ones that would bring a rider down. If it's glass, I always point AND call out.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  7. #32
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    I stop the group to collaborate and listen, There's a hole up ahead they best be missin'
    If there was a problem that seems to solve it, Back on our bikes and our wheels be revolving....

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    I stop the group to collaborate and listen, There's a hole up ahead they best be missin'
    If there was a problem that seems to solve it, Back on our bikes and our wheels be revolving....
    Uh, would there be time for a cup of coffee during this problem solving? I ask because during these types of talks a cup of coffee and maybe a donut goes a long way towards amiable solutions.
    Too old to ride plastic

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    Uh, would there be time for a cup of coffee during this problem solving? I ask because during these types of talks a cup of coffee and maybe a donut goes a long way towards amiable solutions.
    Maybe some ice ice coffee.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    Maybe some ice ice coffee.
    I like this. The ride is just so much more pleasant without all that unneeded hollerin' and pointin' and carrying on.
    Too old to ride plastic

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    I stop the group to collaborate and listen, There's a hole up ahead they best be missin'
    If there was a problem that seems to solve it, Back on our bikes and our wheels be revolving....
    Ha.
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post
    On the other hand, i had some jackass brake check me the other day because i drafted him for a moment before i passed him. Roadie etiquette is a mystery.
    I was on a road ride and me and another guy I thought were working together to close on the pack we had just been dropped from. It as a strong front side head wind and I was close on his wheel. When he was done with his pull, he just stops pedalling and pulls off to the opposite side of the wind, WADA!
    I gave him my thoughts and he was a MBiker, so everyone pulls a dumb move, don't ride close to strangers. I know he was a MBiker cause he had hair on his legs!
    BANNED

  13. #38
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    I sometimes walk on the MUT and I'll get right up behind someone and draft them.

    They get so Freaked out!

    What's their problem?

  14. #39
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    Point, yell, and move.

    Doing none or only one of those three things without the others pisses me off royally and if it happens more than once, then I'll start yelling and probably go to the front and start dropping fools.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post



    On the other hand, i had some jackass brake check me the other day because i drafted him for a moment before i passed him. Roadie etiquette is a mystery.
    You don't draft people you don't know and who don't know you're there.

    Just like you don't tailgate people.

    Common sense shouldn't be a mystery.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalbiker View Post
    You don't draft people you don't know and who don't know you're there.

    Just like you don't tailgate people.

    Common sense shouldn't be a mystery.
    he said he drafted 'for a moment.' If a moment is like 5 seconds, that is def not offensive imho. Heck ya need that long to shoulder check for traffic before passing.

    and further, GCN tested the effect of drafting and even at 30 feet it produced significant reduction in watts expended. So one could 'draft' a rider at 25 feet, even, which would be 100% inoffensive.
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    he said he drafted 'for a moment.' If a moment is like 5 seconds, that is def not offensive imho. Heck ya need that long to shoulder check for traffic before passing.

    and further, GCN tested the effect of drafting and even at 30 feet it produced significant reduction in watts expended. So one could 'draft' a rider at 25 feet, even, which would be 100% inoffensive.
    If it were only a moment, then I doubt the guy in front of him brake-checked him.

    Not sure what the "further" point is. 25-30 feet is not giving you anything remotely useful, especially if windy. More like a few feet to be noticeable, and six inches or so if you're really hammering and dying to hang on.

    And you don't ride that closely to a rider unbeknownst to them. It's dumb and dangerous.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalbiker View Post
    And you don't ride that closely to a rider unbeknownst to them. It's dumb and dangerous.
    ^This, with an emphasis on dumb.^
    Last edited by Lombard; 04-06-2018 at 07:12 AM.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post
    Leading i'll just quietly move the pace line around an obstacle and never say a word. I've been chastised once or twice for not signaling debris and i just don't know when to mention it.
    Signal for anything that could cause a flat or a crash. Gradually move the line away from the hazard. This is part of the job of the lead rider on the road.

    Basically, MTB riding assumes obstacles will be there, lots of them. That's part of the point! On the road, they are rare and unexpected (sort of, unexpected on "good" pavement).
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  20. #45
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    Just gradually moving the line doesn't always (often? ever?) do it. Riders may not notice the gradual move in time. Space - because of the shoulder, cars may not allow enough movement to be seen as moving the line vs. just not holding your line.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    Signal for anything that could cause a flat or a crash. Gradually move the line away from the hazard. This is part of the job of the lead rider on the road.

    Basically, MTB riding assumes obstacles will be there, lots of them. That's part of the point! On the road, they are rare and unexpected (sort of, unexpected on "good" pavement).
    This is a good point. If the road is full of potholes, it's far better to use the every-man-for-himself mode. On fast downhills in mottled light the leader may have all he can do to spot and miss potholes himself. Sometimes he may have to resort to bunny hopping. In this case, trying to point out obstacles isn' practical and is often dangerous.

  22. #47
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    Point at the hazard. Especially when it is a hazard to everyone. It doesn't matter which finger you use. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.8244e051caeb
    Insert something clever here:

    Insert list of every bike I own here:

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    This is a good point. If the road is full of potholes, it's far better to use the every-man-for-himself mode. On fast downhills in mottled light the leader may have all he can do to spot and miss potholes himself. Sometimes he may have to resort to bunny hopping. In this case, trying to point out obstacles isn' practical and is often dangerous.
    Every man for himself?

    I'd never lead a group along a dicey section of shoulder. I'd take the lane. That'll show cars behind we're in business, and also avoid sudden lateral adjustments in the peloton avoiding debris. That's where you see crashes; very dangerous. Someone points down on his right, the rider behind him hits the rider to his left, and 5 guys go down.

    Have never ridden in a group that didn't follow the leader[s] like fish, so I would never assume "every man for himself" if I were leading the group. That ain't right, Swift.

    Agree, on fast descents, a good idea for all to think way ahead of the rider in front!
    Last edited by Fredrico; 04-06-2018 at 03:49 PM.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Every man for himself?

    I'd never lead a group along a dicey section of shoulder. I'd take the lane. That'll show cars behind we're in business, and also avoid sudden lateral adjustments in the peloton avoiding debris. That's where you see crashes; very dangerous. Someone points down on his right, the rider behind him hits the rider to his left, and 5 guys go down.

    Have never ridden in a group that didn't follow the leader[s] like fish, so I would never assume "every man for himself" if I were leading the group. That ain't right, Swift.

    Agree, on fast descents, a good idea for all to think way ahead of the rider in front!
    On fast descents you always take the lane.

    I can't imagine taking my hands off the bars while leading a pack down a twisting descent at 40mph and decelerating hard for a hairpin. Nor would I be happy to see the rider leading do that. In mottled light with chuck holes the leaders points out obstacles by bunny hopping them. It behooves all of those following to be on high alert and ready to launch.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalbiker View Post
    You don't draft people you don't know and who don't know you're there.

    Just like you don't tailgate people.

    Common sense shouldn't be a mystery.


    Common sense- Don't brake-check other cyclists.

    Riding like that is going to get someone hurt, and 50% chance it will be you. Let faster riders pass.
    Last edited by bubble; 04-08-2018 at 01:45 AM.

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