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  1. #51
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    For those interested, the 11 speed mtb. And road cassettes share the same cog spacing distances.

    The TanPan is needed because the 11 speed mtb and road derailleurs do not share the same pull ratios.

    Therefor, if you desire a clutch or "plus" type derailleur a TanPan solves that issue.

  2. #52
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    On a 10 speed bike I have I am running an 11-36 xt cassette. I had it set up with a 9 speed mtb non-clutched rear derailleur. It worked great.

    In spite of that and being happy with the TanPan on the 11 speed bike, I decided to again use the TanPan so I could run a 10 speed clutch derailleur.

    I wanted the ability to control chain slap.


    On other bikes I am running 11-23's and 11-28's and loose Chains are not a problem. The bigger heavier cassettes seem to be an issue for me.

    I do have yet another bike set up with a Woolf tooth road link. It is a 10 speed ultegra di2 system. So far on a couple rides chain slap doesn't seem to be an issue.

    Just to reiterate, the issue only affected me on fast sprints when I abruptly stop pedaling and only when in the 11 cog and 50 tooth chainring. Mostly when descending hard on the pedals then abruptly stopping cranks before a corner.
    Last edited by factory feel; 06-14-2017 at 11:53 AM.

  3. #53
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    Well well well..

    Whaddya know..


  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    Well well well..

    Whaddya know..

    I don't get WTF they were thinking keeping this hidden passed the 2018 model unveiling.

    I LOL a bit at pro bikes showcasing Shimano's R8000 and everything else latest and greatest....but still use RD hangers and not direct-mount.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    I don't get WTF they were thinking keeping this hidden passed the 2018 model unveiling.

    I LOL a bit at pro bikes showcasing Shimano's R8000 and everything else latest and greatest....but still use RD hangers and not direct-mount.
    Because a derailleur hanger is a sacrificial item indended to save the frame if the derailleur is twisted. From what I've seen, only budget bikes are direct mount.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Because a derailleur hanger is a sacrificial item indended to save the frame if the derailleur is twisted. From what I've seen, only budget bikes are direct mount.
    Ugh. Nope...Here's some learnings about Shimano DM:

    https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/techn...ear-derailleur

    https://www.bikerumor.com/2012/03/04...ech-breakdown/

    There's a reason why in the R8000 you see a removable-link in the RD. That link is to accommodate DM framesets....not to accommodate installing Ultegra Di2 on budget bikes.

    I installed DM on my gravel bike AAMOF:

    https://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocros...nger-pics.html

    Old school RD hangers were ill-defined WRT placement/geometry. DM is very specific WRT geometry and machining, is stiffer, and IMHO shifts better.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Because a derailleur hanger is a sacrificial item indended to save the frame if the derailleur is twisted. From what I've seen, only budget bikes are direct mount.
    I'm pretty sure you'd be wrong.

    As far as I know, the first production bike with a direct mount RD was the BMC SLR=01 Team Machine.

    Hardly a 'budget bike'.


  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    I'm pretty sure you'd be wrong.

    As far as I know, the first production bike with a direct mount RD was the BMC SLR=01 Team Machine.

    Hardly a 'budget bike'.

    what a nasty cable bend,,,,bleh

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Ugh. Nope...Here's some learnings about Shimano DM:

    https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/techn...ear-derailleur

    https://www.bikerumor.com/2012/03/04...ech-breakdown/

    There's a reason why in the R8000 you see a removable-link in the RD. That link is to accommodate DM framesets....not to accommodate installing Ultegra Di2 on budget bikes.

    I installed DM on my gravel bike AAMOF:

    https://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocros...nger-pics.html

    Old school RD hangers were ill-defined WRT placement/geometry. DM is very specific WRT geometry and machining, is stiffer, and IMHO shifts better.
    OK, so it looks like the term "direct mount" is a misnomer. From what I can see, there is still a separate piece between the derailler and bike frame.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    Well well well..

    Whaddya know..

    wondering if it would work on 10sp Di2 set up I have?

    probably not but it would be nice if it did.

  11. #61
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    I guess this fits a need out there somewhere - personally I haven't had an issue with keeping the chain on the rings on my gravel bike even on the super rough crazy B-Road descents. (knock on wood).
    Gravel Rocks

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  12. #62
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    Will be interesting to see how the clutch perform compared to their mtb clutch. I was a little disappointed with their mtb clutch mechanism in that it gives a lot of friction when you're near the big-big combo. Resistance was so bad that it made shifting very rough, and you could definitely feel the resistance in the pedal stroke.

    I wonder if for this deraileur if the clutch spring tension is reduced or if spring tension can be adjusted (rather than just ON/OFF)? And wonder if it's adjustable on the fly with a button? If I have to stop the bike to turn the clutch ON/OFF, I think it's deal killer for me because in that case I'd just leave it off (based on my experience with their mtb clutch) and thus pointless to have it.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    This whole thing is like complaining an Aero frame missed the boat by not having clearance for 40mm tires and rack mounts.

    If your ability and/or terrain doesn't allow you to use a regular road racing set up you bought the wrong thing or need to live with jerry-rigging.

    Do you expect them to redesign what's designed for road racing so 1% can use a 40 cog while probably making the other 99% unhappy?
    Shimano has mostly learned from their mistakes over the years. Virtually all serious mountain bikers used aftermarket brake calipers in the early years (until they got serious and came up with V-brakes). They seemed unafraid that they might make the 99% of rim brake users unhappy when the invested in disc technology.

    Shimano has since then led the market in bicycle brake technology. Their entry into the disc brake market had nothing to do with racing and everything to do with the demands of the recreational market. In fact, school is still not out on whether road racing will come to wholehearted acceptance of discs and I'm not convinced that Shimano cares all that much.

    I assume you realize that, while the road racing market is insignificant in size, the belief is that the exposure it creates drives the recreational market? Consider that that belief may be erroneous--except in the margin.

    For those of us who can no longer produce 250 watts for an hour or so, the gearing suitable for professional racing falls short for aging but serious recreational riders who remain commited to riding in the mountains. 11/28 cogsettes may fall short for boomers on 7000' days when a portion of the climbing exceeds 12%.

    The good news is that Shimano will likely make correction earlier than the others. It was the failure of campy to get their act together on discs that took me back to Shimano. I'm betting that many other older climbers made the same transition (it was the leadership in 11 speed development that took me to campy in the first place).

    In the end, it is a good idea to accept that a rather large portion of the market is driven by demands that fall outside of yours--or mine, for that matter.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    I guess this fits a need out there somewhere - personally I haven't had an issue with keeping the chain on the rings on my gravel bike even on the super rough crazy B-Road descents. (knock on wood).
    I find it’s helpful when coming down a bumpy hill in your big small gear combo. Keeps the chain from bouncing over the outside of the big ring.

    Especially when you are running a very large cassette cog which in turn tends to allow the chain to swoop down onto the chain stay during high speed downhills during which rider pedals fast then halts pedaling abruptly and that big cog don’t like to stop spinning due to its mass compared to say a 25 tooth cog. That can cause massive chain slack and bad stuff can follow.

    Maybe you don’t run these types of setups or do these types of rides so for you it is inconsequential but for me I look forward to it becoming available.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    I find it’s helpful when coming down a bumpy hill in your big small gear combo. Keeps the chain from bouncing over the outside of the big ring.

    Especially when you are running a very large cassette cog which in turn tends to allow the chain to swoop down onto the chain stay during high speed downhills during which rider pedals fast then halts pedaling abruptly and that big cog don’t like to stop spinning due to its mass compared to say a 25 tooth cog. That can cause massive chain slack and bad stuff can follow.

    Maybe you don’t run these types of setups or do these types of rides so for you it is inconsequential but for me I look forward to it becoming available.
    I do ride an 11/32 cassette and compact crank on the gravel bike, but probably don't go from pedaling fast to stopped on rough descents I guess which makes sense as a situation the extra tension could help.
    Gravel Rocks

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    Niner RLT9 (Gravel Bike)
    Trek Crockett

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Will be interesting to see how the clutch perform compared to their mtb clutch. I was a little disappointed with their mtb clutch mechanism in that it gives a lot of friction when you're near the big-big combo. Resistance was so bad that it made shifting very rough, and you could definitely feel the resistance in the pedal stroke.

    I wonder if for this deraileur if the clutch spring tension is reduced or if spring tension can be adjusted (rather than just ON/OFF)? And wonder if it's adjustable on the fly with a button? If I have to stop the bike to turn the clutch ON/OFF, I think it's deal killer for me because in that case I'd just leave it off (based on my experience with their mtb clutch) and thus pointless to have it.
    The outer on/off is just to help for wheel changes.

    The clutch is adjustable, just take if the face plate, and make it a bit looser. Lots of YouTube videos to reference.

    Yours is just too tight if it creates noticable drag.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post

    Yours is just too tight if it creates noticable drag.
    An excessively short chain will do this too. With road bikes being 2x the problem shouldn't appear unless you're cross-chaining with a short chain.

    I have a clutch RD on my road bike and it's invisible aside from slightly firmer shifts.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post
    An excessively short chain will do this too. With road bikes being 2x the problem shouldn't appear unless you're cross-chaining with a short chain.

    I have a clutch RD on my road bike and it's invisible aside from slightly firmer shifts.
    Right, as he blamed the clutch and that's what the thread is about, I assumed he had an adequate chain length.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    The clutch is adjustable, just take if the face plate, and make it a bit looser. Lots of YouTube videos to reference.
    the newer models are adjustable without removing the cover plate.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    the newer models are adjustable without removing the cover plate.
    Even better

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    The outer on/off is just to help for wheel changes.

    The clutch is adjustable, just take if the face plate, and make it a bit looser. Lots of YouTube videos to reference.

    Yours is just too tight if it creates noticable drag.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    ah! will try your suggestion
    It also doesn't help that road bikes have shorter chainstays than mtb, which makes cross-chaining to have even more friction.

    After trying your suggestion to loosen the clutch tension to the loose possible setting, I find that the tension is still a bit high for road use when the switch is fully set to ON. Of course I could just turn the switch to "halfway" between ON and OFF position for medium tension setting, but I reckon this is now how Shimano wants us to use the switch?
    Last edited by aclinjury; 04-09-2018 at 11:55 AM.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    Right, as he blamed the clutch and that's what the thread is about, I assumed he had an adequate chain length.
    I understand your thinking, i just disagree with going straight to blaming the clutch. The clutch is initially calibrated by shimano and they're pretty invisible aside from shifting (<.5w penalty, iirc).

    I think the clutch is making a different problem more apparent, and that it isn't the clutch itself that is the problem. Short chain was just the obvious explanation. Not enough B-tension is another possibility, or having the chainring too far outboard. Loosening the clutch is the last thing i'd try since it's unlikely that it's improperly calibrated.

    Good luck sorting it out aclinjury

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