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Shimano Ultegra R8000 drivetrain missed the Boat...

23K views 71 replies 19 participants last post by  bubble 
#1 ·
should have a clutch rear derailleur option.
 
#3 ·
The Shadow design is several things. In the case of Ultegra 8000, it just means its closer to the frame, and thus less likely to be damaged in a tip over. The RD8000 is not clutched. However, if you really really really want a clutched derailleur, you are welcome to put a Dura Ace unit on there. I think it's probably overkill for most road usage though.
 
#6 ·
The Shadow design is several things. In the case of Ultegra 8000, it just means its closer to the frame, and thus less likely to be damaged in a tip over. The RD8000 is not clutched. However, if you really really really want a clutched derailleur, you are welcome to put a Dura Ace unit on there. I think it's probably overkill for most road usage though.


Dura-Ace does not have a clutch, never has.

Shadow only refers to the design, keeping it much closer to the frame, tucked in and away. Shadow Plus adds a clutch to that design.
 
#4 ·
"plus" is the clutch and really helps with a limp chain under sprinting conditions when you abruptly stop pedaling and the cassette momentum tries to throw your chain off the big ring, mainly when in the smallest cog.
 
#8 ·
Shimano lately has had branding problems.

Seriously. Many of these brand/tech-terms must mean something more transparent to the reader in Japanese. WTF does "semi-synchro" shift mean? No one understands in english unless you write a 3 paragraph book-report on it.
 
#12 ·
Right. I wasn't saying that there are lawyer tabs on the rear end, just that the clutch is one more thing for people to complain about. You know, it'll add about .4 seconds when it comes to removing the rear wheel.

I don't notice any change in shift performance unless I'm going to the lowest ratio (36/36) on one of my bikes. Going into the lowest 34/34 on the other is fine. Both are XT/XTR 1x10s. On the 36t, it's a little draggy with the clutch on while the bike is in the stand, but I don't think I've ever actually used the 36t while riding. Again, it's over really rough terrain at high speed/low chain tension where the clutch does anything. It's also of some benefit on a 1x (even tension, less likely to fall off), but a narrow/wide ring makes a lot more difference. That's not likely going to be an issue on a road bike.
 
#16 ·
Deleted.
 
#26 ·
my first attempt with the 40t cassette with a long cage on the 105 derailleur. Worked beautifully except in the big/small combo when letting off the pedaling quickly then the chain slapped badly...
Wheel Bicycle tire Bicycle wheel rim Spoke Bicycle part
 
#28 ·
my second attempt to run the 40t, now with a long cage xt derailleur and the tanpan. works good so far. the clutch helps a lot with chain slap.
View attachment 319379


Note the difference in cage length and derailleur geometry. Even with a clutch, the 105 would not have worked well.
 
#30 ·
There are certainly use cases for a clutched derailluer on a road bike, however, probably not enough to warrant adding the feature to the U-8000 system (or Dura Ace for that matter). For those rare situations where someone might actually *need* a clutch (like yours), there are other solutions out there (like yours), including a Di2 setup with an XT rear derailluer.
 
#31 ·
There are certainly use cases for a clutched derailluer on a road bike, however, probably not enough to warrant adding the feature to the U-8000 system (or Dura Ace for that matter). For those rare situations where someone might actually *need* a clutch (like yours), there are other solutions out there (like yours), including a Di2 setup with an XT rear derailluer.
this is something I want to investigate for a bike i have with ultegra 10s di2.

I want a stronger spring for the derailler because I'm running an xt 11-36 cassette on it with the road link.

I haven't ridden it yet to see if chain slack will be an issue though.
 
#41 ·
This whole thing is like complaining an Aero frame missed the boat by not having clearance for 40mm tires and rack mounts.

If your ability and/or terrain doesn't allow you to use a regular road racing set up you bought the wrong thing or need to live with jerry-rigging.

Do you expect them to redesign what's designed for road racing so 1% can use a 40 cog while probably making the other 99% unhappy?
 
#42 ·
So what are you supposed to buy if you want 11 speed and brifters and lower-range gearing exactly. Do tell. Oh wait...Shimano ceased selling products that did. So their "road racing set-up" is now the only game in town. Same for Campag.


"Gravel" is a segment taking off (again) because there are millions of miles of MMR unmaintained roads in the USA and elsewhere. And Shimano doesn't sell a product that serves it.
 
#44 ·
It's not like we are expecting an entire group. All we need is a clutch-equipped rear der. One that has a wide range like the new R8000 or even closer to the M8000 could be nice. 36t to 40t max seems reasonable.

Or a lower-geared crankset. Shimano voluntarily killed the triple with 11speed, and suddenly expects everyone to get by on a 34T min LOL.
 
#46 ·
Shimano and others want to eliminate the triples but failed to recognize that a large segment of their consumers (yes includes roadies) need lower gears for extreme or lengthy hills. Currently the only mod that makes sense if you own 6800 stuff is changing the standard 50/34 compact to FSA's 46/30.. Its the same ole stuff, they fail to recognize that the new design does not fit all!!!
 
#51 ·
For those interested, the 11 speed mtb. And road cassettes share the same cog spacing distances.

The TanPan is needed because the 11 speed mtb and road derailleurs do not share the same pull ratios.

Therefor, if you desire a clutch or "plus" type derailleur a TanPan solves that issue.
 
#52 · (Edited)
On a 10 speed bike I have I am running an 11-36 xt cassette. I had it set up with a 9 speed mtb non-clutched rear derailleur. It worked great.

In spite of that and being happy with the TanPan on the 11 speed bike, I decided to again use the TanPan so I could run a 10 speed clutch derailleur.

I wanted the ability to control chain slap.


On other bikes I am running 11-23's and 11-28's and loose Chains are not a problem. The bigger heavier cassettes seem to be an issue for me.

I do have yet another bike set up with a Woolf tooth road link. It is a 10 speed ultegra di2 system. So far on a couple rides chain slap doesn't seem to be an issue.

Just to reiterate, the issue only affected me on fast sprints when I abruptly stop pedaling and only when in the 11 cog and 50 tooth chainring. Mostly when descending hard on the pedals then abruptly stopping cranks before a corner.
 
#54 ·
I don't get WTF they were thinking keeping this hidden passed the 2018 model unveiling.

I LOL a bit at pro bikes showcasing Shimano's R8000 and everything else latest and greatest....but still use RD hangers and not direct-mount.
 
#61 ·
I guess this fits a need out there somewhere - personally I haven't had an issue with keeping the chain on the rings on my gravel bike even on the super rough crazy B-Road descents. (knock on wood).
 
#64 ·
I find it’s helpful when coming down a bumpy hill in your big small gear combo. Keeps the chain from bouncing over the outside of the big ring.

Especially when you are running a very large cassette cog which in turn tends to allow the chain to swoop down onto the chain stay during high speed downhills during which rider pedals fast then halts pedaling abruptly and that big cog don’t like to stop spinning due to its mass compared to say a 25 tooth cog. That can cause massive chain slack and bad stuff can follow.

Maybe you don’t run these types of setups or do these types of rides so for you it is inconsequential but for me I look forward to it becoming available.
 
#62 ·
Will be interesting to see how the clutch perform compared to their mtb clutch. I was a little disappointed with their mtb clutch mechanism in that it gives a lot of friction when you're near the big-big combo. Resistance was so bad that it made shifting very rough, and you could definitely feel the resistance in the pedal stroke.

I wonder if for this deraileur if the clutch spring tension is reduced or if spring tension can be adjusted (rather than just ON/OFF)? And wonder if it's adjustable on the fly with a button? If I have to stop the bike to turn the clutch ON/OFF, I think it's deal killer for me because in that case I'd just leave it off (based on my experience with their mtb clutch) and thus pointless to have it.
 
#66 ·
The outer on/off is just to help for wheel changes.

The clutch is adjustable, just take if the face plate, and make it a bit looser. Lots of YouTube videos to reference.

Yours is just too tight if it creates noticable drag.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 
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