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  1. #1
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    Shimano Ultegra R8000 drivetrain missed the Boat...

    should have a clutch rear derailleur option.

  2. #2
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    Isn't SHADOW Shimano's nomenclature for clutched rear derailleur? Which from what I have read, the R8000 does implement?

  3. #3
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    The Shadow design is several things. In the case of Ultegra 8000, it just means its closer to the frame, and thus less likely to be damaged in a tip over. The RD8000 is not clutched. However, if you really really really want a clutched derailleur, you are welcome to put a Dura Ace unit on there. I think it's probably overkill for most road usage though.

  4. #4
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    "plus" is the clutch and really helps with a limp chain under sprinting conditions when you abruptly stop pedaling and the cassette momentum tries to throw your chain off the big ring, mainly when in the smallest cog.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    "plus" is the clutch and really helps with a limp chain under sprinting conditions when you abruptly stop pedaling and the cassette momentum tries to throw your chain off the big ring, mainly when in the smallest cog.
    Ah yes, the plus means clutch, I stand corrected.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    The Shadow design is several things. In the case of Ultegra 8000, it just means its closer to the frame, and thus less likely to be damaged in a tip over. The RD8000 is not clutched. However, if you really really really want a clutched derailleur, you are welcome to put a Dura Ace unit on there. I think it's probably overkill for most road usage though.


    Dura-Ace does not have a clutch, never has.

    Shadow only refers to the design, keeping it much closer to the frame, tucked in and away. Shadow Plus adds a clutch to that design.
    use a torque wrench

  7. #7
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    I guess I misunderstood. I Thought I saw a Shimano produced video that indicated the Dura Ace derailleurs had a clutch, but I didn't realize what the "Plus" designation meant.

    Mea Culpa

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    I guess I misunderstood. I Thought I saw a Shimano produced video that indicated the Dura Ace derailleurs had a clutch, but I didn't realize what the "Plus" designation meant.

    Mea Culpa

    Shimano lately has had branding problems.

    Seriously. Many of these brand/tech-terms must mean something more transparent to the reader in Japanese. WTF does "semi-synchro" shift mean? No one understands in english unless you write a 3 paragraph book-report on it.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    "plus" is the clutch and really helps with a limp chain under sprinting conditions when you abruptly stop pedaling and the cassette momentum tries to throw your chain off the big ring, mainly when in the smallest cog.
    If you are having these problems, your drivetrain isn't set up right. You may want to adjust your derailleurs and limit screws correctly.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    If you are having these problems, your drivetrain isn't set up right. You may want to adjust your derailleurs and limit screws correctly.
    Yeah, that's not a thing that should happen with a well-tuned drivetrain. If a freehub has enough drag to pop off the chain while coasting, it needs some attention.

    Anyway, a clutch doesn't seem like it'd be needed on a road bike. On a CX or MTB that sees lumpy terrain, sure, there's noticeably less chain slap in otherwise low-tension ratios over rough ground. Plus, if the are people *****ing about lawyer tabs making wheel changes take too long, just wait until they have to flip the clutch lever to get the back wheel off (and then forget to re-engage it once it's back together)... throw in lining up a rotor and the thru-axle, and man, it's all over.

  11. #11
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    ^come on, you dont have lawyer tabs on the rear wheel...

    Although clutches do seem to make gear changes a bit slower, I though it was just me and I was going crazy, but talking other people apparently it is.
    All the gear and no idea

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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    ^come on, you dont have lawyer tabs on the rear wheel...

    Although clutches do seem to make gear changes a bit slower, I though it was just me and I was going crazy, but talking other people apparently it is.
    Right. I wasn't saying that there are lawyer tabs on the rear end, just that the clutch is one more thing for people to complain about. You know, it'll add about .4 seconds when it comes to removing the rear wheel.

    I don't notice any change in shift performance unless I'm going to the lowest ratio (36/36) on one of my bikes. Going into the lowest 34/34 on the other is fine. Both are XT/XTR 1x10s. On the 36t, it's a little draggy with the clutch on while the bike is in the stand, but I don't think I've ever actually used the 36t while riding. Again, it's over really rough terrain at high speed/low chain tension where the clutch does anything. It's also of some benefit on a 1x (even tension, less likely to fall off), but a narrow/wide ring makes a lot more difference. That's not likely going to be an issue on a road bike.

  13. #13
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    sorry forgot the smile face in there...
    It does increase the wheel in/out time when you forget that it exists and you're like why...the...hell... won't the damn wheel come out!? Oh...
    All the gear and no idea

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    If you are having these problems, your drivetrain isn't set up right. You may want to adjust your derailleurs and limit screws correctly.
    It's when you start running large cog cassettes is when a clutch is helpful. I assure you it's not an issue of set up.

  15. #15
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    Dura Ace 9100 missed the boat too. Still can't multi-shift like Chorus/Record/Super Record? Crazy.

  16. #16
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    Deleted.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    It's when you start running large cog cassettes is when a clutch is helpful. I assure you it's not an issue of set up.
    How large a cassette are you using on your road set up?
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    How large a cassette are you using on your road set up?
    one bike I am running an 11-40.

    when hard pedaling downhill in the big - small combo and letting off the pedaling abruptly, the cassette momentum wants to
    keep the cassette rolling forward and thus lets the chain dip way down and sling around.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    one bike I am running an 11-40.

    when hard pedaling downhill in the big - small combo and letting off the pedaling abruptly, the cassette momentum wants to
    keep the cassette rolling forward and thus lets the chain dip way down and sling around.
    Ultegra is not designed to be used with an 11-40T. Aren't you the one who swore up and down in another thread that this setup "worked". So apparently it doesn't, or at least not very well.

    Are you using a Wolf Tooth? Even with the Wolf Tooth, you can only go up to an 11-36T. Without it, it will only work well with an 11-32T.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Ultegra is not designed to be used with an 11-40T. Aren't you the one who swore up and down in another thread that this setup "worked". So apparently it doesn't, or at least not very well.

    Are you using a Wolf Tooth? Even with the Wolf Tooth, you can only go up to an 11-36T. Without it, it will only work well with an 11-32T.
    the 11-40 bike I am now using a tanpan with an m8000 xt derailleur.

    works very well with the clutch.

    I had previously tried it with a 5800 105 derailleur with a road link and a long cage from another derailleur installed and it worked fantastic, except for being in the big small combo on sprints and abruptly stop pedaling. That's when the chain would flail all over the place.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Are you using a Wolf Tooth? Even with the Wolf Tooth, you can only go up to an 11-36T. Without it, it will only work well with an 11-32T.
    with Wolf tooth Roadlink I use 42T XT with Ultegra der with ease and no issues. And I am sure it could accomodate more teeth cogs if I wanted.

    I suppose it also depends on your frame's hanger length. Nice to see the new Ultegra officially fits a 33T cog now .. which means can probably squeeze a 36t or 40 maybe without a Roadlink (well we will see once folks try it)

    good to hear of the experience with clutch type XT derailleur FF. useful info
    Last edited by BCSaltchucker; 06-12-2017 at 03:49 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    the 11-40 bike I am now using a tanpan with an m8000 xt derailleur.

    works very well with the clutch.

    I had previously tried it with a 5800 105 derailleur with a road link and a long cage from another derailleur installed and it worked fantastic, except for being in the big small combo on sprints and abruptly stop pedaling. That's when the chain would flail all over the place.
    The XT derailleur not only has a longer cage (total chain wrap capacity) than the longest (mid-cage) Shimano road derailleurs, but the geometry of the derailleur is different as well.

    So this is why even with the long mountain bike cage, the road derailleur will have problems. A clutch will not change this.

    If the XT works, no reason to change it.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    one bike I am running an 11-40.

    when hard pedaling downhill in the big - small combo and letting off the pedaling abruptly, the cassette momentum wants to
    keep the cassette rolling forward and thus lets the chain dip way down and sling around.
    Why the hell would you be "hard pedaling downhill" on the 40t? Or, are you saying you're in the 11t and big ring and the momentum of that 40t will sling the chain? Either way, this is a ridiculously unrealistic scenario to be planning a drivetrain around.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    with Wolf tooth Roadlink I use 42T XT with Ultegra with ease and no issues. And I am sure it could accomodate more teeth cogs if I wanted.

    I suppose it also depends on your frame's hanger length. Nice to see the new Ultegra officially fits a 33T cog now .. which means can probably squeeze a 36t or 40 maybe without a Roadlink (well we will see once folks try it)

    good to hear of the experience with clutch type XT derailleur FF. useful info
    thanks man, yeah so far it's working out great!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    Why the hell would you be "hard pedaling downhill" on the 40t? Or, are you saying you're in the 11t and big ring and the momentum of that 40t will sling the chain? Either way, this is a ridiculously unrealistic scenario to be planning a drivetrain around.
    actually, I planned my drive train around the 40 tooth cassette cog for long steep climbs, the resulting chain slap coming back down the hill was an undesireable side effect and my remedy was changing to a clutch style derailleur and the woolftooth TanPan device.

    so far it's working brilliantly!

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