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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-theory View Post
    Yes. I've had a similar experience. The squats strengthened your legs in a way that cycling doesn't. What people fail to realize is that cycling is not a good workout. Except for the cardiovascular conditioning, it is almost entirely injurious to the body, because it causes atrophy of all the major muscle groups that aren't involved with pedaling. And aside from the quads and hamstrings, that's virtually every muscle in the body.

    For fitness, cycling should be a very small part of an exercise regimen that includes body-core exercises, upper body weightlifting, squats, deadlifts, and running. Cycling time should be kept to no more than an hour, 3 times a week. And if possible, it would be good to get off the bike and walk for a bit for every 20 minutes of riding.

    My advice is to think of cycling as junk food, or 'desert', and it should not be done to excess. Excessive time on the bike will actually weaken the skeletal structure by depleting calcium from the bones. It's a 'fun' activity that should be enjoyed in small quantities.
    Yeah... Righto... and then I'll run and cause myself knee trauma and hip bursitis unnecessarily. I mean to say, every serious athlete has a full body workout as part of their regimen but exclusively saying low impact exercise is bad for you is quite frankly ridiculous.

    Do you say the same thing about swimming? Because you've discredited yourself in so many ways its ridiculous and you've also fallen into the trap of applying everything through your own eyes... cool bro science though bro...

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    self-diagnosis can be dangerous. see a sports doctor and a physical therapist and work out a program would be my suggestion.
    This.

    I recently retired my old Mavic shoes (which in retrospect were way too narrow) for a pair of comfortable NorthWave kicks. Around that time I also made a small change to my fit. Weeks later I had sore knees during the ride and very dull burning achy knees that evening. I went to a sports doc for an unrelated injury days later and asked him about the knee. He asked me to flex, palpitated my knee cap, poked in certain key places and told me my VMO muscle is weak. You know what? He was right. Turns out my shoes were set up incorrectly and cause a misalignment in the biomechanics of the joints up and down the leg and my VMO muscle wasn't being utilized and strengthened. After adjustment the VMO ached more than usual for a few rides and a week later my knees ceased to ache and burn.

    Point is, yes a sports doc can help, and is worth it considering especially because aches take weeks to go away. But also, oftentimes and as was the case here, knee pain is a result of mis tracking of the patella caused by muscle imbalance, not necessarily weak muscles. You may not need squats, you may need to isolate say a VMO and work on that.
    "That pretty much sums it up. I'm 43 and my max is ~178-180. If that HR chart was mine or Froome's, we'd be on the verge of death. But for you it probably looks like a normal workout." -TLG

    LOLOLOL

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-theory View Post
    Yes. I've had a similar experience. The squats strengthened your legs in a way that cycling doesn't. What people fail to realize is that cycling is not a good workout. Except for the cardiovascular conditioning, it is almost entirely injurious to the body, because it causes atrophy of all the major muscle groups that aren't involved with pedaling. And aside from the quads and hamstrings, that's virtually every muscle in the body.

    For fitness, cycling should be a very small part of an exercise regimen that includes body-core exercises, upper body weightlifting, squats, deadlifts, and running. Cycling time should be kept to no more than an hour, 3 times a week. And if possible, it would be good to get off the bike and walk for a bit for every 20 minutes of riding.

    My advice is to think of cycling as junk food, or 'desert', and it should not be done to excess. Excessive time on the bike will actually weaken the skeletal structure by depleting calcium from the bones. It's a 'fun' activity that should be enjoyed in small quantities.
    Cycling is an awesome workout for cycling faster. Since this is a Cycling forum, there are a load of folks here whose principal interest is bike racing or riding for fun with some competitive goal, even informally. Even just individual performance goals... You have a good number of people here that are doing 4-5+ hour single rides with some regularity. People doing 4,000, even 6,000+ miles a year are doing 200+ Miles each week, at least. Most cyclists know that full body fitness work is healthy, but the reality is, it doesnít help you go faster on a bike. Most of us have limited time, and with cycling taking up a good hunk, it isnít always convenient to stop riding for a period of time to focus on full body fitness. So, I think a lot of us try to minimize the negative effects, try to solve things that take you off the bike or restrict your miles... Staying lean and getting regular cardio doesnít suck. But for many of us, Cycling is a sport we love and in our own way we participate. I have ďworked outĒ a LOT and I have never done a workout with fitness as a goal. It is always as part of getting better at a sport. I donít disagree by the way, Iím just trying to put some context in the discussion and where itís happening. And I should qualify this and say, while I refer to many people here, Iím really only hip to my own experience.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  4. #29
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    Did squats again yesterday and knees feel even better today. I'm really hoping that was the answer to my issue.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Cycling is an awesome workout for cycling faster. Since this is a Cycling forum, there are a load of folks here whose principal interest is bike racing or riding for fun with some competitive goal, even informally. Even just individual performance goals... You have a good number of people here that are doing 4-5+ hour single rides with some regularity. People doing 4,000, even 6,000+ miles a year are doing 200+ Miles each week, at least. Most cyclists know that full body fitness work is healthy, but the reality is, it doesnít help you go faster on a bike. Most of us have limited time, and with cycling taking up a good hunk, it isnít always convenient to stop riding for a period of time to focus on full body fitness. So, I think a lot of us try to minimize the negative effects, try to solve things that take you off the bike or restrict your miles... Staying lean and getting regular cardio doesnít suck. But for many of us, Cycling is a sport we love and in our own way we participate. I have ďworked outĒ a LOT and I have never done a workout with fitness as a goal. It is always as part of getting better at a sport. I donít disagree by the way, Iím just trying to put some context in the discussion and where itís happening. And I should qualify this and say, while I refer to many people here, Iím really only hip to my own experience.
    Thank you. Great response. Too many people are working out merely to get better at a sport, or for bragging rights, and are taking their health and 'well being' for granted. You seem to be self-aware of the situation, but most wannabe athletes are perhaps unaware that they are abusing themselves. They are in a state of denial wherein they justify the abuse by imagining that it is good for them. The old expression HTFU comes to mind. But it's counterproductive. It will eventually lead to injury.

    I am exactly the type of RBR member you mentioned. I used to go for long bike rides on the weekend, shorter ones during the week, and doing minimal exercise otherwise. Walking became an effort...even opening the heavy doors at work became difficult. But, my average speed on the bike was improving. And that really was all that was important to me at the time.

    My earlier post was simply a reminder to put cycling in perspective, and certainly not to mistake it for a genuine 'workout'. Yes, 'cycling is an awesome workout for cycling faster', but a long brisk walk is a far better workout for strengthening the legs in any sort of meaningful way.

    The primary goal of any exercise program should be to foster 'well being'. A well-balanced approach that includes a variety of core-strengthening exercises is certainly more intelligent than just over-doing it on the bike.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisthebeave View Post
    Did squats again yesterday and knees feel even better today. I'm really hoping that was the answer to my issue.
    It almost always is the silver bullet. Pushing mega weight squats is well known to fix bad knees. It basically shocks them into better working order. High weight squats are generally better than stem cells in fact.

    A tip for those with creaky knees who don't own heavy weights is, use what's available. Somebody in pursuit of better knee health can always walk out into any parking lot and find one end of a light car to squat. A further tip is, if going for maximum weight, squat the front of the car because that is where the engine is.

    There was this girl I used to work with who had freakishly massive quads. People used to comment on her tree trunk like legs. There was rampant speculation that ever lunchtime she was out back squatting Arnie's Cadillac.
    Last edited by 11spd; 1 Week Ago at 07:54 PM.

  7. #32
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    You make it seem like I'm Dr. Evil for predominately wanting to ride my bike.

    1) Cardio in whatever form is good for you.
    2) Most people should be able to lift their head above a chinup bar at least a couple times or else they should give up some time to go to the gym and actually do some core strength and arm exercises.

    I think you're playing at the kind of people with a pot-belly in a lycra suit who go out riding after several days of the weekend on the drink. Most of us who at least take ourselves semi-seriously are not your audience. The idea that cycling is bad for you is categorically wrong, in fact cyclists as a whole have a significantly lower rate of cardiovascular disease than other populations. They tend on average to have lower blood pressure (110/80) and pulse below the average of about 60 trending towards an athletes pulse when my heart is complete at rest or asleep at 50bpm.

    If you struggle to lift your arms above your head you should do something about that. I was the fat kid with no core strength what so ever in the first place. The trick is that it only takes about 6months out of your life to gain at least an average amount of core strength and perhaps more. I used to be able to squat 300lb in a back squat and free weight press about 80lbs. In the long run it wasn't very good for my joints or my back.

    I can still lift my body above a chin up bar, I just don't care for it and plus there is a reality to all of this. You will tick past 28 and you will realise that same thing Lance Armstrong did.... You can't win that game anymore without HGH, EPO and steroids.... so you might as well let the blood circulation go back from your lower extremities and know how to be fit for your whole life.

    Excess muscle gets catabolised into fat cells eventually which leads to heart disease past 50 so you don't win that game either.
    Last edited by 1500SLR; 1 Week Ago at 08:02 PM.

  8. #33
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    This year I did a number of bike trips, some rather challenging, Girona, French Alps, Levi's Gran Fondo, Tour de Catskills and coming up Hincapie, so my rides focus on being able to tackle those rides. That means some long rides and seeking out the tougher climbs, but lack of enjoyment has me avoiding hill repeats. If it isn't fun I'm not going to want to do it.

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