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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    I hate the ones that have the right of way at a 4W stop and they want you to go.... while all the other cars at the 4W are a lot more aggressive drivers. I just cross going really slow. That happened today!

    If you have the right of way... GO! dammit.
    Worse... you're at a 2 way stop. Opposing (busy) traffic has no sign, and same nitwit stops to let you go. Meanwhile cars are slamming their brakes on behind them, going around them, or flying by the other direction.

    Thanks but no thanks. Just obey traffic rules.
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  2. #27
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    Is riding on the side-walk legal in your state?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Got Time View Post
    Is riding on the side-walk legal in your state?
    That doesn't matter much, first they drive aggressive trying to run you over, then they yell aggressive cause your on the sidewalk to get out of their way. That is not our fault!
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  4. #29
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    Agreed it is annoying, frequently dangerous, and often means it actually takes everyone involved more time to move through the intersection, when people try to be "polite" and fail to simply follow the right-of-way rules. It happens fairly frequently, and not only when cycling (it happens when driving, too).

    Given that it is a predictable and not unusual occurrence, there's no point getting annoyed about it. You just have to have a strategy and follow it. You might just as well get pissed that rain is wet.

    (Edit: Additionally, it is hard to get angry at drivers inappropriately yielding the right-of-way to cyclists given the frequency with which cyclists ignore the right-of-way and run lights/stop signs - around here, at least.)

    ------------

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by D&MsDad View Post
    Agreed it is annoying, frequently dangerous, and often means it actually takes everyone involved more time to move through the intersection, when people try to be "polite" and fail to simply follow the right-of-way rules. It happens fairly frequently, and not only when cycling (it happens when driving, too).

    Given that it is a predictable and not unusual occurrence, there's no point getting annoyed about it. You just have to have a strategy and follow it. You might just as well get pissed that rain is wet.

    (Edit: Additionally, it is hard to get angry at drivers inappropriately yielding the right-of-way to cyclists given the frequency with which cyclists ignore the right-of-way and run lights/stop signs - around here, at least.)

    ------------
    Agreed. They are annoying, but generally less dangerous than aggressive motorists, as you have the opportunity to decline a motorist waiving you by on a two lane street (for example).

  6. #31
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    I was just ranting to my wife about this the other day. I was riding through a gridded street area with a ton of stop signs and every intersection is a guessing game as to whether or not the person that has the right-of-way will wave me through or not. The hard part is that even if they are waving, sometimes you just can't see the driver because of glare or whatever. So I try to be the responsible cyclist and follow the traffic laws, going at my turn at a 4 way stop, but I got waved-thru at more than half of the intersections.


    This gets really old:

    -slow down before stop sign, keeping enough momentum to roll through when the right-of-way driver goes
    -I personally wave the right-of-way driver through
    -reach the stop sign and forced to stop while the right-of-way driver is waving ME through
    -realize the right-of-way driver won't go until I go through the intersection
    -have to start pedaling from almost a standstill in way too high of a gear because I figured I'd still be rolling at this point
    -now I have to make sure nobody else that came to the intersection by now took the initiative to just go through without waiting for me
    -pedal through the intersection super slowly looking like an idiot while 5 cars are now waiting for me because I'm in way too tall of a gear

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by azpeterb View Post
    It sure would make things simpler if motorists and cyclists do what they’re supposed to do. It would take the guesswork out of things. Unfortunately that just isn’t the way things are.
    Some men see things as they are, and ask why. I dream of things that never were, and ask how come?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    I was just ranting to my wife about this the other day.

    This gets really old:

    -slow down before stop sign, keeping enough momentum to roll through when the right-of-way driver goes
    -I personally wave the right-of-way driver through
    -reach the stop sign and forced to stop while the right-of-way driver is waving ME through
    -realize the right-of-way driver won't go until I go through the intersection
    -have to start pedaling from almost a standstill in way too high of a gear because I figured I'd still be rolling at this point
    -now I have to make sure nobody else that came to the intersection by now took the initiative to just go through without waiting for me
    -pedal through the intersection super slowly looking like an idiot while 5 cars are now waiting for me because I'm in way too tall of a gear
    You may be sending mixed messages to drivers if you are trying to roll through the stop sign. Even if they see you waving them through, they may assume you aren't stopping and they opt not to risk hitting you. I'd cut them some slack.

  9. #34
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    The "Death Wave" as my Lawyer calls it.

    Trail or crosswalk crosses a busy multi-lane road.

    You are stopped waiting for traffic to clear, and a driver stops and waves you through.

    Problem is, there are 1 or more other Lanes that he or she is not accounting for (or in control of).

    You, as the cyclist, proceed, only to be squashed by a vehicle in another lane.

    According to my lawyer, this scenario, and variations of it are responsible for a significant percentage of his cases (many of them fatal).

    There was a case here recently where a 14 year old boy was riding his bike to a local park. He stopped at the crossing and was waved across by the driver in the closest lane. Unfortunately, he was killed by a car approaching in the adjacent lane ( same direction).

    I would not criticize these nice people, but please do always be responsible for your own safety, regardless of who has the right-of-way.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Got Time View Post
    Is riding on the side-walk legal in your state?
    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    That doesn't matter much, first they drive aggressive trying to run you over, then they yell aggressive cause your on the sidewalk to get out of their way. That is not our fault!
    Even if I was a pedestrian (instead of cyclist) walking on the sidewalk, the close encounter would have been the same since the driver of that Land Rover SUV was speeding around the turn. Only difference from a guy like that would have been "A$$ hole, get off the road!" instead of "sidewalk". It's the mindset of certain individuals.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Got Time View Post
    Is riding on the side-walk legal in your state?
    Usually but there are some areas with exception. In my case, I was riding on the road but when it came time to cross the intersection, I got on the sidewalk while waiting for the light to change.

  12. #37
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    Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
    Oh my, a troll who doesn't know the difference between your and you're. What will they think of next?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    The "Death Wave" as my Lawyer calls it.

    Trail or crosswalk crosses a busy multi-lane road.

    You are stopped waiting for traffic to clear, and a driver stops and waves you through.

    Problem is, there are 1 or more other Lanes that he or she is not accounting for (or in control of).

    You, as the cyclist, proceed, only to be squashed by a vehicle in another lane.

    According to my lawyer, this scenario, and variations of it are responsible for a significant percentage of his cases (many of them fatal).

    There was a case here recently where a 14 year old boy was riding his bike to a local park. He stopped at the crossing and was waved across by the driver in the closest lane. Unfortunately, he was killed by a car approaching in the adjacent lane ( same direction).

    I would not criticize these nice people, but please do always be responsible for your own safety, regardless of who has the right-of-way.
    That's why, in some states, it's illegal for one car to pass another car that is stopped at a crosswalk.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    The "Death Wave" as my Lawyer calls it.

    Trail or crosswalk crosses a busy multi-lane road.

    You are stopped waiting for traffic to clear, and a driver stops and waves you through.

    Problem is, there are 1 or more other Lanes that he or she is not accounting for (or in control of).

    You, as the cyclist, proceed, only to be squashed by a vehicle in another lane.

    According to my lawyer, this scenario, and variations of it are responsible for a significant percentage of his cases (many of them fatal).

    There was a case here recently where a 14 year old boy was riding his bike to a local park. He stopped at the crossing and was waved across by the driver in the closest lane. Unfortunately, he was killed by a car approaching in the adjacent lane ( same direction).

    I would not criticize these nice people, but please do always be responsible for your own safety, regardless of who has the right-of-way.
    Ouch!

    That's why I never go in front of cars that stop to let me through. A car coming up in the left lane would be hidden by the stopped car and cyclist wouldn't see it the moment he kicks off. This is yet more evidence confirming OPs rant.

    Yes, make eye contact! Nothing like communication! Motorist can slow slightly, flash headlights, and be alert that cyclist may try to pass in front, or if cyclist is not moving, proceed cautiously through the intersection. The cyclist can wave the motorist through while inching forward. If motorist balks, cyclist can go around the back of the motorist, and continue on his way if the coast is clear. Concept: avoid moving in front of these 3/4 ton metal vehicles all the time if you have that choice.

    Drivers don't see you if you're on the sidewalk. A cyclist doesn't look like a pedestrian and probably isn't moving when the light turns green. So a car fixing to make a quick right turn hitting the light just as it turns green [NYC? ] isn't going to notice a cyclist on the sidewalk before he makes the turn. If cyclist were on the street, the driver would have seen him from further up the block and would have factored him in his plans. The fact Great White Hunter in his Land Rover came back with "get off the sidewalk" clearly indicated he didn't expect to see a cyclist on the sidewalk at an intersection waiting for the light to turn green.

    So I would enter a cautionary note in my mental instruction manual on demanding respect at intersections.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Yes, make eye contact!
    This doesn't always work either. And I'm living proof. I was hit by a motorist who was stopped at a stop sign as I was crossing her path (from her right) on a paved rail trail. She was coming out of a parking lot and had a stop sign. I had no traffic control (other than my own 'common sense').

    I slowed as I approached from her right, waiting for her to acknowledge me so I could pass safely.

    Just as I was approaching from about 10 feet away, she LOOKED RIGHT AT ME!.

    Unfortunately, she didn't actually SEE me. She was looking beyond me for cars in the passing lane behind me.

    I rolled across in front of her car at about 5mph, and just as I passed her right front bumper she stomped on the gas and punted me out into the street. I spent 6 months sleeping in a chair healing from the injuries.

    That was three years ago, and I've had a couple of similar close calls since then. Needless to say, I exercise extreme caution when passing in front of any occupied motor vehicle - stopped or otherwise.

    I (and others) have posted links to this before, but it's worth posting again.
    https://www.portsmouthctc.org.uk/a-f...-on-the-roads/

    The article discusses in some detail how the human brain works in terms of processing vision. It's quite frightening really, and good information to be aware of as you interact with drivers out on the roads and trails.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    This doesn't always work either. And I'm living proof. I was hit by a motorist who was stopped at a stop sign as I was crossing her path (from her right) on a paved rail trail. She was coming out of a parking lot and had a stop sign. I had no traffic control (other than my own 'common sense').

    I slowed as I approached from her right, waiting for her to acknowledge me so I could pass safely.

    Just as I was approaching from about 10 feet away, she LOOKED RIGHT AT ME!.

    Unfortunately, she didn't actually SEE me. She was looking beyond me for cars in the passing lane behind me.

    I rolled across in front of her car at about 5mph, and just as I passed her right front bumper she stomped on the gas and punted me out into the street. I spent 6 months sleeping in a chair healing from the injuries.

    That was three years ago, and I've had a couple of similar close calls since then. Needless to say, I exercise extreme caution when passing in front of any occupied motor vehicle - stopped or otherwise.

    I (and others) have posted links to this before, but it's worth posting again.
    https://www.portsmouthctc.org.uk/a-f...-on-the-roads/

    The article discusses in some detail how the human brain works in terms of processing vision. It's quite frightening really, and good information to be aware of as you interact with drivers out on the roads and trails.
    Great advice. The eyes take pictures like a video camera on high shutter speed, snap shots when the eyes stop scanning and take the picture. This is why motorists don't always see a cyclist approaching. The diminutive shape of a cyclist from the front isn't moving across motorist's vision, but stays in the same place, and slowly enlarges. By the time the motorist's eye catches the cyclist, it could very well be seconds before impact.

    Flashing lights attract attention that the forward movement doesn't, true. I never relied on flashing headlights to be seen, though. They too could be ignored if they only get noticeably bigger seconds before impact, but don't change position in motorist's field of vision. Also, the pulsing light reflected off the road right in front of the bike is noise in the data stream, visually distracting, and destroys the experience. Much prefer solid front lights and defensive riding during daylight.

    I've always assumed drivers waiting to cross my path from a parking lot don't necessarily see me coming until I'm right on them, so note if there are approaching vehicles from behind to see how much road I have to work with if the motorist pulls out and I have to get around. If cyclist is going more or less the speed of traffic, flowing around obstacles is a piece of cake. If the traffic is much faster, I'm prepared to stop, or go around the rear of the offending vehicle.

    Had the same experience as you: a lady was waiting for traffic to clear, looking my way, then the other way. I thought we made eye contact, but she was looking for cars on the road, not me, approaching 50 ft. back on the sidewalk. I deftly skirted around her front bumper, while she looked the other way to see if her way was clear. A half second before I cleared, she pulled out, clipping my rear wheel, fortunately not enough to throw me off the bike. She jammed on her brakes and went, "Oh sh!t!" Since then, I've redoubled my efforts to avoid passing in front of waiting cars. We're too small. Drivers don't see us.

    Great article. Thanks for posting.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 1 Week Ago at 06:13 PM.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    That's why, in some states, it's illegal for one car to pass another car that is stopped at a crosswalk.
    It is also illegal to pass a car as it's passing thru an intersection, in Illinois anyway.
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  18. #43
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    do drivers like the peace sign?

    every time a car waits for me passively at a trail crossing, i act quickly and usually give the peace sign at the mid way point. not sure what they want. a thumbs up? wave? mouthed "thank you" with wink? i just give the peace sign. i'm trying to do my part to balance out the bitterness of my disregard at most stop signs.
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  19. #44
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    low upside down piece sign is my 'goto' high five!
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    low upside down piece sign is my 'goto' high five!
    Ditto. Learned it from my teenage son.

    I don't think old fogies get it, though.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Great advice. The eyes take pictures like a video camera on high shutter speed, snap shots when the eyes stop scanning and take the picture. This is why motorists don't always see a cyclist approaching. The diminutive shape of a cyclist from the front isn't moving across motorist's vision, but stays in the same place, and slowly enlarges. By the time the motorist's eye catches the cyclist, it could very well be seconds before impact.

    Flashing lights attract attention that the forward movement doesn't, true. I never relied on flashing headlights to be seen, though. They too could be ignored if they only get noticeably bigger seconds before impact, but don't change position in motorist's field of vision. Also, the pulsing light reflected off the road right in front of the bike is noise in the data stream, visually distracting, and destroys the experience. Much prefer solid front lights and defensive riding during daylight.

    I've always assumed drivers waiting to cross my path from a parking lot don't necessarily see me coming until I'm right on them, so note if there are approaching vehicles from behind to see how much road I have to work with if the motorist pulls out and I have to get around. If cyclist is going more or less the speed of traffic, flowing around obstacles is a piece of cake. If the traffic is much faster, I'm prepared to stop, or go around the rear of the offending vehicle.

    Had the same experience as you: a lady was waiting for traffic to clear, looking my way, then the other way. I thought we made eye contact, but she was looking for cars on the road, not me, approaching 50 ft. back on the sidewalk. I deftly skirted around her front bumper, while she looked the other way to see if her way was clear. A half second before I cleared, she pulled out, clipping my rear wheel, fortunately not enough to throw me off the bike. She jammed on her brakes and went, "Oh sh!t!" Since then, I've redoubled my efforts to avoid passing in front of waiting cars. We're too small. Drivers don't see us.

    Great article. Thanks for posting.
    I had that experience with my wife and mother.

    They both knew I was on a ride. I happened down the road while they were about to pull out of a strip mall onto a 4 lane road with a center turn lane, approx. 12 ft wide shoulder, so a fairly big road with medium traffic.

    I was riding in the left third of the shoulder, I see them up ahead about to pull out, and I start waving at them, I could see them both looking in my direction. I pass them, and go on my way.

    I talk to them after the ride, and my wife (passenger) said that she and my mother (driver) did not see me until I was, literally, immediately in front of their bumper.

    She (my wife) was astonished that they had not seen me while I was approaching and waving.

    I was not surprised. At all.

    ----------

  22. #47
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    A few years ago, three of us were riding legally (two abreast but occupying the entire lane) on a 4 lane divided (posted 40 MPH) and moving (around 30).

    Some motorists passed us on the left but one guy (along with his train) stacked behind us and rode our rear wheels. Suddenly, we hear over a Cop's PA "Hey!!! Get off those cyclist's asses!!!" and the train began to disintegrate and waited to legally pass.

    Stupid nice COP!

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akirasho View Post
    A few years ago, three of us were riding legally (two abreast but occupying the entire lane) on a 4 lane divided (posted 40 MPH) and moving (around 30).

    Some motorists passed us on the left but one guy (along with his train) stacked behind us and rode our rear wheels. Suddenly, we hear over a Cop's PA "Hey!!! Get off those cyclist's asses!!!" and the train began to disintegrate and waited to legally pass.

    Stupid nice COP!
    3 guys taking the lane? Cars backed up behind? Did the 3 of you form a single line and get over on the right? That would have been a nice gesture, very possibly preventing the tail gating.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    3 guys taking the lane? Cars backed up behind? Did the 3 of you form a single line and get over on the right? That would have been a nice gesture, very possibly preventing the tail gating.
    By law here, two abreast allowed on a 4 lane road.

    If we'd a hugged the curb, we'd a prolly been forced to hug the curb (and be forced to deal with any hazards while travelling at speed).

    We represented a legal "slower moving vehicle" and I don't believe that we were hindering anyone in any significant manner (we caught quite a few overtaking cars at the next light), and I believe the cop saw it the same way.

    This is an emerging cycling city (Dayton, OH) but folks can be set in their ways (we also have one of the Nation's largest trail system and more than one driver has insisted that I belong there as opposed to the public roads).

    Odds are that someone who presses on a gas pedal will always be faster than the guy pressing on the bike pedal. We'd be constantly yielding to overtaking when logical rules are already in place.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akirasho View Post
    By law here, two abreast allowed on a 4 lane road.

    If we'd a hugged the curb, we'd a prolly been forced to hug the curb (and be forced to deal with any hazards while travelling at speed).

    We represented a legal "slower moving vehicle" and I don't believe that we were hindering anyone in any significant manner (we caught quite a few overtaking cars at the next light), and I believe the cop saw it the same way.

    This is an emerging cycling city (Dayton, OH) but folks can be set in their ways (we also have one of the Nation's largest trail system and more than one driver has insisted that I belong there as opposed to the public roads).

    Odds are that someone who presses on a gas pedal will always be faster than the guy pressing on the bike pedal. We'd be constantly yielding to overtaking when logical rules are already in place.
    If this tail gater could have passed simply by moving into the next lane, and you were going 30 mph, sure, the right lane was yours. That seems like a pretty simple thing drivers could figure out. He must have had an agenda, the cop was hip and corrected him.

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