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  1. #51
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    Just today I pulled up to a 4 way stop, came to a complete stop, but did not put my foot down, as a car was approaching from the right. He was slowing to stop as I accelerated from my stop. He pulled a Hollywood stop and never saw me till I yelled at him. He would have hit me if I didn't yell, causing him to hit his brake.
    The Hollywood stop didn't bother me, but the him not looking part did.

    But sometimes I wonder if, in an instance like this, the motorist sees the cyclist but just decides to bully the cyclist into stopping for the larger vehicle.
    Too old to ride plastic

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    I can't believe cyclists get mad when motorists err on the side of caution ...
    Here are two examples as to why we donít like it.

    Most motorist stop at a MUP crossing even thought the cyclist has the stop sigh on the MUP. This could cause an accident if the cyclist assumes that the car is going to stop as he runs the MUP stop sign.
    I almost got hit by two cyclists that ran the stop sign. The car slowed and I was on my bike and I did not slow. They were lucky the car slowed because they would have been hit. Instead they got a small lecture from me about stop signs.

    Stopped at a stop sign along side a car, I go and the car coming towards me goes and cuts me off. He did not see me on the side of the car and did not see the car next to me wave him on, even though it was our turn to go and not his.

    They have a category for these type of accidents, they are called courtesy accidents.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    Just today I pulled up to a 4 way stop, came to a complete stop, but did not put my foot down, as a car was approaching from the right. He was slowing to stop as I accelerated from my stop. He pulled a Hollywood stop and never saw me till I yelled at him. He would have hit me if I didn't yell, causing him to hit his brake.
    The Hollywood stop didn't bother me, but the him not looking part did.

    But sometimes I wonder if, in an instance like this, the motorist sees the cyclist but just decides to bully the cyclist into stopping for the larger vehicle.
    I've had my share of experiences similar to what you describe. IMO it's my interpretation that many times people unknowingly have their brain focused and thinking "car" and can look right at you but their brain doesn't recognize or see the bike it just sees no cars---so they pull out. The bicycle is functionally invisible in the scenario I describe.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    I've had my share of experiences similar to what you describe. IMO it's my interpretation that many times people unknowingly have their brain focused and thinking "car" and can look right at you but their brain doesn't recognize or see the bike it just sees no cars---so they pull out. The bicycle is functionally invisible in the scenario I describe.
    You're right. In fact I read a study somewhere that because of our size, even if we are seen we may not be recognized as traffic, but seen as road furniture, a light pole or some such. Like you said, they're looking for a car or truck, often they don't even see a motorcycle.
    Too old to ride plastic

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    You're right. In fact I read a study somewhere that because of our size, even if we are seen we may not be recognized as traffic, but seen as road furniture, a light pole or some such. Like you said, they're looking for a car or truck, often they don't even see a motorcycle.
    .. adding to this, people (and I suspect everything else with eyes) require a change in aspect ratios to detect movement and that change has to occur within a certain time period (depending on circumstances... it's believed that this is how cats stalk prey).

    If glanced at, an object may appear stationary (thing strobe effect) unless you see it long enuff to see a change.

    I believe that humans see visible light at around 60 cycles (which is why you sometimes can detect a 60 cycle light bulb fluctuate) and can get away with 30 (often used for digital video).

    People have stared me directly in the eye before pulling out because they think at best they saw a cyclist standing still.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmach View Post
    They have a category for these type of accidents, they are called courtesy accidents.
    is that like friendly fire?

    "count me out! (in.)"
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  7. #57
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    Ah, the ol' see a car arrive at the intersection ahead of you, roll slowly up to the stop line, pull to a complete stop, unclip, put your foot down, all the while telegraphing every action... and then realize that the driver has waited ~15 seconds for you to arrive and is then frantically waving you through. They could have pulled to a complete stop, checked both ways, and pulled through the intersection prior to you even getting to the intersection. JUST. GO... PLEASE.

    I know people are just trying to stay safe and be courteous, but they're actually making things more dangerous and inconveniencing everyone. I also know this is because a lot of cyclists tend to blow through stop signs. This is why everyone should just obey the rules.

  8. #58
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  9. #59
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    Most states have clear laws regarding pedestrians in a crosswalk - cars are required to come to a full stop, and let them cross.

    But how does this apply to a cyclist? In the most common stop / wait position, one foot on the ground, and one foot clipped in.
    Is that person a pedestrian? Or, do they have to completely dismount the bike and walk beside it to be a "pedestrian"?

    What I see around here, is no one stops for me waiting, in the above position, at a marked crosswalk. Not even state police! Yep, I'm on the bike, one foot on the ground. And this does not bother me at all. I prefer it.

    Once in a blue moon someone does stop, and I always wave them on. I would never ever get in front of a slowing car until it comes to a full stop and we make eye contact. So it usually is faster for everyone to let them go by and cross when clear.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    Ah, the ol' see a car arrive at the intersection ahead of you, roll slowly up to the stop line, pull to a complete stop, unclip, put your foot down, all the while telegraphing every action... and then realize that the driver has waited ~15 seconds for you to arrive and is then frantically waving you through. They could have pulled to a complete stop, checked both ways, and pulled through the intersection prior to you even getting to the intersection. JUST. GO... PLEASE.

    I know people are just trying to stay safe and be courteous, but they're actually making things more dangerous and inconveniencing everyone. I also know this is because a lot of cyclists tend to blow through stop signs. This is why everyone should just obey the rules.
    In the big picture if there is maneuvering room I just apply fir ball dogfighting instincts and bike equivalent maneuvers to manage the situation. It may be legal. It may be illegal. But with a few exceptions* it is usually safest or is the most functionally best choice or solution IMO.

    *Attempts at PR downhill descents are exempt.

  11. #61
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    "jeeze. what's wrong wih you??"
    "you were being stupid-nice!"
    "whaddya mean??"
    "you had the right of way! i wanted you to go! that's why i was waving!"
    "oh, well, you're on a bike, so i erred in your favor "
    "that was stupid-nice! i didn't ask for stupid-nice! you made me unclip!"
    "ok, well, have a nice day."
    "no! you! you do that! you have a nice day!"

    [scene]
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    "you had the right of way! i wanted you to go! that's why i was waving!"
    [scene]
    I love when you're standing, foot down, waving the driver through... AND THEY STILL WON'T GO. Perhaps this is a Midwestern thing, I don't remember encountering this problem during my time in New England. Midwesterners: stop being nice.

  13. #63
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    Just last night I was riding and came up to a busy intersection in the far right lane and stopped behind a car that was waiting at the light to make a right turn. When the light turned green the car didn't move, and I could see that the driver could see me behind them in their rear view mirror (I was directly behind the car, not over on the right side of the car). I started waving to motion to the driver "go, go, just go"! But the driver just sat there, presumably because they wanted to let me go around them on my bike? Cars behind me started honking, until finally the car moved and made its right turn.

    Sheesh - STUPID NICE!

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearDaddy View Post
    JBut the driver just sat there, presumably because they wanted to let me go around them on my bike?
    Which way were you suppose to go around him?

    Today I came up on a car about 1/4block after I turned onto the road behind him. He gets all the way over to the right at the curb and just sits there. There were about 4 vehicles coming the other way so... I figured he wanted to turn left as the airport was on the right with no turn in for a mile.

    I passed him on the left and looked back, after I passed him he turned on his blinker and turned left. Why didn't he just stay in the left part of the lane, turn his blinker on and I would have passed on the right (there was plenty of shoulder but a curb) and not have to wonder is he going to turn left just as I pass with oncoming vehicles???? OMG!

    I know they are trying to be nice, but they are really STUPID!
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  15. #65
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    many people who wave riders thru don't do it out of courtesy, they simply don't know the rules for determining who has the ROW.

    just learn how to drive, mkay...would be safer for everyone.
    Ancient Astronaut theorists say, 'YES!'

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    many people who wave riders thru don't do it out of courtesy, they simply don't know the rules for determining who has the ROW.

    just learn how to drive, mkay...would be safer for everyone.
    This is such a common problem, that Bikeyface has written a book on the subject. To literally educate drivers what to do when driving around bikes.

    OMG a Bike! | Bikeyface


  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPlKE View Post
    Ditto. Learned it from my teenage son.

    I don't think old fogies get it, though.
    I'm an old fogey and don't get it. Explain?
    Too old to ride plastic

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    In the big picture if there is maneuvering room I just apply fir ball dogfighting instincts and bike equivalent maneuvers to manage the situation. It may be legal. It may be illegal. But with a few exceptions* it is usually safest or is the most functionally best choice or solution IMO.

    *Attempts at PR downhill descents are exempt.
    True words of wisdom.

    Its the easiest way to stay out of trouble, we would have to say almost effortless, like a kung fu wrestler conquering each obstacle with panache, staying with the traffic when possible, carefully threading between cars at the stop lights, using cross walks and Walk signs, behaving as wheeled vehicle or pedestrian when appropriate. Many never take advantage of the creative options cycling so generously provides. They drive their bikes like cars, and get in trouble when motorists don't give them what they expect.

    When a car slows, seeing me approaching the crossing: if I think I'll make it, judging my speed realtive to his, I go. If not, I track stand and motion driver forward. If he hesitates, I go around in back of his car if the coast is clear in the other lanes.

    I used to get into close calls where I hesitate, he or she hesitates, and we both go at the same time and the driver jams on his brakes as I pass in front. I prefer not to interrupt the flow and invite crashes. If done right, it's by far the safest strategy. If the speed differentials are too high, forget it; stay out of their way.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    True words of wisdom.

    Its the easiest way to stay out of trouble, we would have to say almost effortless, like a kung fu wrestler conquering each obstacle with panache, staying with the traffic when possible, carefully threading between cars at the stop lights, using cross walks and Walk signs, behaving as wheeled vehicle or pedestrian when appropriate. Many never take advantage of the creative options cycling so generously provides. They drive their bikes like cars, and get in trouble when motorists don't give them what they expect.

    When a car slows, seeing me approaching the crossing: if I think I'll make it, judging my speed realtive to his, I go. If not, I track stand and motion driver forward. If he hesitates, I go around in back of his car if the coast is clear in the other lanes.

    I used to get into close calls where I hesitate, he or she hesitates, and we both go at the same time and the driver jams on his brakes as I pass in front. I prefer not to interrupt the flow and invite crashes. If done right, it's by far the safest strategy. If the speed differentials are too high, forget it; stay out of their way.
    Back in the early 80's my roommate and I were returning from a ride and approaching a green light at a stoplight on a four lane city street with left turn lanes. There was a car coming from the other direction, pulling into the left turn lane, that stopped. Therefore we continued into the intersection. Then the car made it's left turn. My roommate was on my left and was able to swing behind the car but I hit it between the bumper and right front wheel well, catapulting me directly into the windshield. My bike was destroyed and I needed fifty stitches in the face.

    Thus I do not trust drivers at all when they stop. I make sure that they are going to remain stopped before I continue. Once burned, twice shy...
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    Back in the early 80's my roommate and I were returning from a ride and approaching a green light at a stoplight on a four lane city street with left turn lanes. There was a car coming from the other direction, pulling into the left turn lane, that stopped. Therefore we continued into the intersection. Then the car made it's left turn. My roommate was on my left and was able to swing behind the car but I hit it between the bumper and right front wheel well, catapulting me directly into the windshield. My bike was destroyed and I needed fifty stitches in the face.

    Thus I do not trust drivers at all when they stop. I make sure that they are going to remain stopped before I continue. Once burned, twice shy...
    Yep, 50 stitches and a destroyed bike will teach an intelligent person to prioritize avoiding repeats. Forget "right of way."

    I finally learned to wear a helmet back in the '80s, after being hit by another cyclist on an MUT, being thrown into a brick wall at around 18 mph, and waking up in a hospital bed 6 days later, not knowing where I was or what happened. Hospital personnel and the guy who hit me thought I was going to die on 'em. But I went home the next day with only a dislocated shoulder; picked up the bike from the guy who hit me; the frame builder straightened out the head tube and fork, and the bike, a commuter with fenders, rear rack, 28 mm tires, is now my main ride. Since then, I've hit my head a few times on the tarmac, gone through 3 helmets, and am here to tell the story.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I'm an old fogey and don't get it. Explain?
    Two fingers down in the victory salute? That's hip hop, isn't it, when a dude approves of something or is trying to say he's cool?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    That's how its done! Well, at a slightly lower speed! The interloper the two picked up just before the end got a little bit too caught up in the competition, right?

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I'm an old fogey and don't get it. Explain?
    Like, peace, man. Peace out, and whatnot.

  24. #74
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    Criminy

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Two fingers down in the victory salute? That's hip hop, isn't it, when a dude approves of something or is trying to say he's cool?

    You don't make a V like Churchill and Nixon.

    You keep the fingers close together.

    When I want to calm a riled up world, I kiss the peace fingers and then extend them straight out from my body and say "peace on the streets."

    It works every time.

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