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  1. #1
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    Whereabouts of Troy Watson, Ligero Wheelworks

    I am wondering if anyone has information about the whereabouts of Troy Watson and Ligero Wheelworks. He has a wheel of mine which was built by him defectively, and which he said he was going to fix. The rear hub was anodized improperly, due to a failure on the part of his subcontractor. He had me return the wheel, and acknowledged receipt of it on June 13, telling me that he expected to return it to me within a couple of weeks. I wasn't in a great hurry, so I waited more than a month without inquiring. Hearing nothing from him, I sent him an e-mail on July 18. He promptly responded with an e-mail telling me that he was expecting my wheel back the next week and would build it up as soon as he got it. Since that time, he has not contacted me and has not returned a single one of my several voice mail or e-mail messages. As it is difficult for me to believe that the Troy Watson who chatted me up so nicely on the phone several times would be so discourteous and irresponsible as to stonewall me in such a manner, I am wondering whether anyone knows if he has been hospitalized, incarcerated, fled the jurisdiction, or otherwise been thrown into communication-disabling distress. In the absence of that kind of explanation for holding my wheel in silent captivity, I will let you draw your own conclusions about this guy and the advisability of doing business with him.

  2. #2
    Fast No More.
    Reputation: Slow Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenC
    ...In the absence of that kind of explanation for holding my wheel in silent captivity, I will let you draw your own conclusions about this guy and the advisability of doing business with him.
    Troy posts on this forum, generally in the Wheels & Tires subforum, as Ligero.

    A quick search of the forum for "ligero" turns up generous praise for his wheelbuilding and customer service skills, sage advice and recommendations, and your post.

    I sympathize with your situation, and I commend you for registering on this forum to voice your concerns and inquire as to his well-being, but if you end your first post with a remark like that, I can assure you other forum members will certainly "draw their own conclusions", and they're not going to be about Ligero.
    Work to Eat | Eat to Live | Live to Ride | Ride to Work

  3. #3
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    No Excusing Ligero

    Fast Eddie, however much you may want to protect someone who may be a friend or whatever, the fact is that customer service is non-existent when a guy defaults for weeks in returning a product that he was supposed to repair, and then repeatedly fails and refuses to respond to requests for information about it. Unless Troy has the kind of excuse I suggested--hospitalization, incarceration, or some such thing--then what I am getting from him is not customer service but customer abuse. He may build a good wheel, but if it comes with this kind of cost, people need to consider that in determining whether to do business with the guy. In that regard, after I saw your post, I did a little searching on the internet and found that I am not the first one of his customers who has been subjected to such mistreatment and has cried out for help online.

  4. #4
    Number 2 on the course.
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    I'd like to add a sincere, non-passive-agressive hope that all is well with Mr. Watson,

    I think I will hold off on drawing conclusions, but best of luck with your campaign of internet extortion. I hope you get nothing less than what you deserve.

  5. #5
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    We Have To Protect Ourselves Because of our Legal Vulnerability

    "Internet extortion" you call it? And what would you call what is being done to me? I paid Troy Watson $620 to build me a set of wheels. I will dispense with complaining about the untimeliness of delivery of the rear wheel, after the hub for that wheel got lost between Troy and his anodizing subcontractor. When I did belatedly get both wheels, however, I discovered that the rear hub had been anodized defectively and that the red dye was streaking and coming off. I mentioned it to Troy, and he recognized the problem, saying that his anodizing subcontractor had used some bad dye on the batch of products that included my hub shell. He told me to return the affected wheel to be fixed, at my convenience. A few months later, I did so. On June 13, Troy told me that he received the wheel and would get it fixed and returned to me within the next couple of weeks. By the time mid-July came around, I needed to get the wheel back. On Friday, July 18, I inquired and got an immediate e-mail response from Troy saying the following: "I am expecting your hub back this coming week and will build it up and send it as soon as I get it." That was the last I heard. I have gotten no response of any kind to my e-mail and voice mail messages in the last two weeks. I now have a pressing need to get that wheel, but I hear nothing. Because Troy seemed like a decent guy from our phone conversations, I figured at first that he might be out of town or something. But as the non-responsiveness has lasted too long for that kind of excuse to apply, I came to thinking that either a major catastrophe had befallen the guy, or he is just another unscrupulous merchant.

    I have the legal right to sue Troy Watson for conversion, and seek damages and/or what is called replevin to get my wheel back. But a legal proceeding like that is not really an option. For a wheel worth a few hundred dollars, it does not pay for a cheated customer to take a matter like this to court, especially when the merchant is located so far away that the customer cannot economically go to small claims court where the merchant resides. So there is no effective legal recourse for a customer in such a situation. Our only hope in protecting against abuse by unscrupulous merchants dealing with us from far away, which is now an even greater concern with the internet, is to communicate with and warn each other about the risks of dealing with certain merchants. We need to depend on forums like these to protect each other against merchants who mistreat customers because of their awareness that the customers have no legal recourse.

    I resent your defamatory accusation of "extortion," Peanut Butter Breath. I have rights under the law of contracts which are being violated with impunity. I also have rights to publish the truth. And the truth is that I am getting screwed and have no effective remedy. My purposes in writing this post were to find out whether some catastrophe befell Troy Watson which could possibly explain this kind of mistreatment of a customer and, in the absence of such an explanation, to alert otherwise unsuspecting customers of what might be involved in dealing with this merchant. I only wish that I had had the benefit of such a warning before I started dealing with Troy Watson, because I would have known to find another guy to build my wheels. At least I have the satisfaction of knowing that you and anyone else reading this can spare yourself the aggravation that I have been experiencing.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenC
    "Internet extortion..." ...Before the advent of the internet
    You know, the fact that you didn't capitalize the "i" in the second spelling of said work, makes me realize that your entire manifesto lacks any merit. I think you should sue. I think that you should sue and then win, and then get half of your $680 back, only to pay way more in legal fees, or should you represent yourself, waste an inordinate amount of time.

    But most importantly, Sir: you are a whiner. Stop abusing your Internet privileges and realize that maybe you should deal with things in a different manner.

  7. #7
    Old and Fixed, Moderator
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    ...............................*sigh*............. ............................

    I think you are missing the point here Len......when someone comes on to an internet forum and uses their FIRST post, to blast a company, it is usually met with some doubt as to their motives....

    For all we know you are a competitor of Troys....Sorry you might have had a bad experience but your first post is unlikely to prevent me from doing business with them until I read of more issues with the company
    Dave Hickey/ Fort Worth

    My 3Rensho Blog: http://vintage3rensholove.blogspot.com/

  8. #8
    Fat'r + Slow'r than TMB
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    Ummm, so let me get this right. He has your wheel and you are looking for him, you are calling him out on a forum he is known to use and be a part of, and you expect that wheel in what condition when it comes back to you, and you admit you have really zero legal recourse? I appreciate your frustration with this situation seeing how I am waiting for resolution on several matters including an insurance claim, I just don't think I would have worded it like you did. Just my 2 cents worth. Post in the wheels forum and see what pops up.
    Just fast enough to know I am slow.

  9. #9
    Banned forever.....or not
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    I think that someone on the internet thought he saw Troy eating babies.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
    .
    How would you like it if Hitler killed you
    Dogbert.

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  10. #10
    Fat'r + Slow'r than TMB
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY
    I think that someone on the internet thought he saw Troy eating babies.

    NO it was not babies, it was noobs.
    Just fast enough to know I am slow.

  11. #11
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenC
    "Internet extortion" you call it? And what

    You lost me when you started a sentence with "and"......

    The horse is still dead - stop beating it already. Their have been so many posts on this subject - try searching...

    Zach

  12. #12
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    There Must Be Unscrupulous Merchants Are On This Forum

    Who else but an unscrupulous merchant would object to a truthful account by a victimized customer that serves as a warning to unsuspecting customers? We customers are just supposed to take whatever you dish out and shut up, or risk being called a "whiner?" Not a chance, azoomm.

  13. #13
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    I can't see through your title. What does "There Must Be Unscrupulous Merchants Are On This Forum" mean? You have just confused me. Thanks, whiner.

  14. #14
    Old and Fixed, Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenC
    a truthful account by a victimized customer.
    this is true because you typed some words on an internet forum?

    oh and by the way, I'm a 22 year old blond female surfer from San Diego...
    Dave Hickey/ Fort Worth

    My 3Rensho Blog: http://vintage3rensholove.blogspot.com/

  15. #15
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    Dave, I would have never guessed that from your post count.

  16. #16
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    Troy will get your wheels to you, trust me. He will not rip you off.

    troy had issues with volume and the whole anodising crap and it's well documented here on these forums.

    Everyone got what they paid for and in the end were happy with the wheels.

    He is a on man show and has corrected things to avoided issues like you and others have had. He is too busy for his own good!

    You will be fine in the long run and a happy customer.
    DIRT BOY

    "Pain is a big fat creature riding on your back. The farther you pedal, the heavier he feels. The harder you push, the tighter he squeezes your chest. The steeper the climb, the deeper he digs his jagged, sharp claws into your muscles." - Scott Martin


  17. #17
    Number 2 on the course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenC
    I resent your defamatory accusation of "extortion," Peanut Butter Breath. I have rights under the law of contracts which are being violated with impunity. I also have rights to publish the truth. And the truth is that I am getting screwed and have no effective remedy. My purposes in writing this post were to find out whether some catastrophe befell Troy Watson which could possibly explain this kind of mistreatment of a customer and, in the absence of such an explanation, to alert otherwise unsuspecting customers of what might be involved in dealing with this merchant. I only wish that I had had the benefit of such a warning before I started dealing with Troy Watson, because I would have known to find another guy to build my wheels. At least I have the satisfaction of knowing that you and anyone else reading this can spare yourself the aggravation that I have been experiencing.
    Your claim of concern for Mr. Watson's health & safety is disingenuous. If you were truly concerned that some catastrphe had befallen the guy, you would limit your inquiry to establishing that fact. Only after establishing that he was okay would you go about questioning his business practices.

    Your real motive here is to trash his reputation in hopes that you will get something in exchange for desisting. It is the height of irony that you would complain about defamatory accusations leveled in your direction.

    I don't have trouble believing that your wheel is delayed and communication with the builder is difficult. That is the risk you run when dealing with very small businesses and custom items. Any number of things could cause a delay, there is nobody to stand in if the builder is indisposed, and nobody can pull another item off the shelf and send it to you when there is a problem.

    On the other hand, you sound like a crank. If you can be so dishonest in your concern for Mr. Watson's health, there is no knowing what else you would mislead yourself or others about.

    Based on your own account, the hub could have arrived on 7/25 (the week following 7/18). If the wheel was rebuilt and shipped sometime the week of 7/28 - 8/1 I don't think anyone would fault Mr. Watson for tardiness. Today is 8/6 -- WTF are you complaining about again!?

  18. #18
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    It has been what, two-three weeks since your last communication? Maybe he has nothing to tell you yet as he is waiting for the part from overseas. Maybe he is swamped with orders. Granted, maybe not the best customer service in the world, but certainly far from victimization at this point.

    If you are that worried about him, call his local hospitals and other public facilities.

  19. #19
    Fat'r + Slow'r than TMB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hickey
    oh and by the way, I'm a 22 year old blond female surfer from San Diego...

    We have the pictures of his, I mean her, shaved legs to prove it.
    Just fast enough to know I am slow.

  20. #20
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    I believe the origional poster is well within his rights to feel frustrated at the wheel builder, not so much because of a faulty wheel, but because of the lack of any communication. The builder did say via e-mail that he would have the wheel back from his supplier within the week and would rebuild it and send back to the purchaser as soon as he got it back...it's been two days shy of three weeks, no wheel, but more importantly, no communication. As someone who works in the service industry, I know that many customer service situations don't get resolved instantly...but keeping the customer informed goes a very long way in keeping things civil.
    I had another wheel builder, Ron Ruff build some wheels for me last year, I lent them to a friend of mine who took them to a LBS who claimed they were out of true. I let my friend deal with Ron who eventually e-mailed me just to keep me in the loop. He agreed one wheel was slightly and I mean very slightly out of true, fixed it immediately and sent them back. It all took less than two weeks and we were in steady communication while this happened. I was a bit embarassed that my friend was pushing me to try for a new set of wheels which I refused to do...but Ron was prompt, professional and patient as he quickly resolved the issue. I would never hesitate to purchase from him again and certainly sing his praises to others...part of it is, his wheels are great, but just as if not more importantly, he understands business ethics and customer service. I think the origional poster deserves the same experience with regards to his purchase.

  21. #21
    Number 2 on the course.
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    If OPs is as obnoxious on the phone and in e-mails as he is on the internet, I think any vendor is within their rights to limit communication to the absolute minimum.

    As it stands Mr. Watson could be holding up his entire end of the bargain even though the wheels haven't arrived. Shipping from the contractor and to the customer could easily consume all of the business days between 7/18 and 8/6.

    The wheel isn't even late and the customer is already trying to destroy his business. Yet you impugn Mr. Watson's business ethics?

  22. #22
    Impulse Athletic Coaching
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    Call him. Emails are almost worthless with Troy.

    In his defense, Troy's timeline and communication is pretty crappy. He'd do better to hire some HS student to make phone calls and take more orders.

  23. #23
    eminence grease
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    Out of curiosity, have you questioned every person who has impugned this guy's customer service, or just this one?

    Because, there have been plenty.

    I don't have a dog in this fight one way or another, but I do find it a bit disappointing that everyone is hammering this guy when he is far from the first with this beef. Sometimes it gets very frustrating to be ignored when someone has your money.
    You'd be better off with a netbook, they do everything better.

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  24. #24
    Number 2 on the course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry b
    Out of curiosity, have you questioned every person who has impugned this guy's customer service, or just this one?
    I questioned this guy's judgement of business ethics, not customer service. They are not the same thing.

    Being frustrated with a slow repair is fair. Trumping up unfounded claims of fraudulent business tactics in a public forum is not. Even having a legit complaint does not entitle a person to throw a tantrum.

  25. #25
    Steaming piles of opinion
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    Checked your email server lately?

    Contrary to popular belief, this internet thingy isn't foolproof. (Don't believe me? Just look at all the fools around here...)

    I conversed with Troy several times about an item of mutual interest not related to his business. Was massively frustrated by inconsistent communications, until I noted that my ISP's spam filter caught him. Then my firewall did. Then my local spam filter.

    And I can give plenty of examples where emails just dissolve into the ether.

    Maybe he's communicating perfectly well, and you're simply not listening properly.
    Last edited by danl1; 08-06-2008 at 02:58 PM.
    A good habit is as hard to break as a bad one..

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