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Why NOT American Made bikes?

9K views 69 replies 46 participants last post by  kiwisimon 
#1 ·
I'm just curious. I am a mountain biker at heart (sorry :rolleyes: ) and in the mountain bike world it seems like many of the high end companies are American companies. However, in the road world it seems like a lot of the high end companies that people want are NOT American. . .

I'm not talking about your typical "rack bike" companies like Trek or Cannondale, but rather the other companies that *only* make high end.

In the mountain bike world, you have:
Turner
Foes
Intense (Yeah, I know they have road bikes too, but do you own one?)
Titus (I know they make road bikes, but they are more of a mountain bike company here)
Santa Cruz (well, not so much American anymore)

In the road world, you have:
Orbea
BMC
Bianchi (I know they make lower end stuff, but everyone loves them)
Kuota
Colnago

Just some examples, I know that there are some American companies out there, but it seems to me that BMC and Orbea are the "hot bikes" to get right now, and neither of them is American. Not that I have anything against American/Non-American companies, I'm just curious, that's all. So why the foreign dominance in dreamy bikes?
 
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#3 ·
Winning races...

...doesn't make a bike dreamy in my opinion. All it means is that they are sponsoring the right teams and best riders.
I think something that makes a bike 'dreamy' is that which sets it apart from the crowd. Colnago, Pinarello, Casati, Opera, Orbea, Merckx and Ridley and the usual Italian suspects (Bianchi, Moser, Daccordi, Motta, Somec, and Tommasini) all have something special, which I don't believe Specialized, Trek and Cannondale have. It's a matter of opinion though and there are many on this forum that would refute my sentiments. Also, there are a number of very special American brands that you haven't mentioned: Moots, Vanilla, Seven, Serotta etc.
 
#4 ·
sonyisdope said:
I'm just curious. I am a mountain biker at heart (sorry :rolleyes: ) and in the mountain bike world it seems like many of the high end companies are American companies. However, in the road world it seems like a lot of the high end companies that people want are NOT American. . .

I'm not talking about your typical "rack bike" companies like Trek or Cannondale, but rather the other companies that *only* make high end.

In the mountain bike world, you have:
Turner
Foes
Intense (Yeah, I know they have road bikes too, but do you own one?)
Titus (I know they make road bikes, but they are more of a mountain bike company here)
Santa Cruz (well, not so much American anymore)

In the road world, you have:
Orbea
BMC
Bianchi (I know they make lower end stuff, but everyone loves them)
Kuota
Colnago

Just some examples, I know that there are some American companies out there, but it seems to me that BMC and Orbea are the "hot bikes" to get right now, and neither of them is American. Not that I have anything against American/Non-American companies, I'm just curious, that's all. So why the foreign dominance in dreamy bikes?
It's all about history. Mountain biking started in the US and as a result most of the higher end bikes are made by US companies. Road biking started in Europe (France and Britain iirc) then moved to the US. The fad fizzled in the US early on and although there are some carry-overs from the very first bike boom (Schwinn) most of the high end bikes dropped off. The real high end bikes (Merckx, Colnago, Peg, Pinarello, etc...) are from Europe as a result.
 
#6 ·
I would venture to guess it's because in Europe road riding is so much more of an established and ingrained sport. Markets pop up where demand is the greatest.
 
#9 ·
sonyisdope said:
it seems to me that BMC and Orbea are the "hot bikes" to get right now

Really, BMC? I'm not disparaging the brand -- in fact, I'd give my left nut to own an SLC01 -- but if BMC is such a "hot brand" how come I've never seen one on the road? Seriously. I ride in the greater New York City metro area (i.e., northern New Jersey & Rockland County, Central Park, Prospect Park, & occasional jaunts to Long Island) and I have *never* seen a BMC bike in the flesh.

Orbeas, sure, they're all over the place.
 
#10 ·
I figure , when you get right down to it, American bicycles are just as good as European bicycles. However, the European bicycles tend to be more desirable because you just don't see them as often. (it's the old idea that exclusivity e.g. 'I have something that not many other people have')

Like Vanilla bicycles, they're good bicycles, but they are very exclusive due to the lead time issue and the fact Sacha (sp?) is only able to produce a limited number each year.
 
#11 ·
There are plenty of great High End American Made Bikes (in addition to Trek, & Cannondale):

-Serotta
-Sachs
-Parlee
-Calfee
-Crumpton
-Kirk
-Strong
-Seven
-Lynsky
-IF
-Vanilla
-Zancanoto
-Curt Goodrich
-Waterford
-Kish


To name a few that I would personally prefer to Obrea & BMC.

You need to broaden your horizin a little.

Len
 
#13 ·
Len J said:
There are plenty of great High End American Made Bikes (in addition to Trek, & Cannondale):

-Serotta
-Sachs
-Parlee
-Calfee
-Crumpton
-Kirk
-Strong
-Seven
-Lynsky
-IF
-Vanilla
-Zancanoto
-Curt Goodrich
-Waterford
-Kish


To name a few that I would personally prefer to Obrea & BMC.

You need to broaden your horizin a little.

Len

I am glad you listed them so I didnt have to. I agree completely.

I ride a Serotta and want a Kirk. Lots of folks are waiting in line for a Sachs or Vanilla.
 
#14 ·
almost all of those bikes you mention are custom bike builders though, which I think is not what the OP was talking about. I'm sure there are tons of Custom builders in Europe that make very nice and desirable bikes as well. Comparing Mass produced bikes, there are not that many American brands. It has alot to do with the exclusivity of it, TREK makes as good a bike as anyone in the world, yet they couldn't be any less appealing to me because 75% of the people in my area ride them. I Ride a DeRosa Merak and my training partner rides the BMC SLC01 which is a very nice bike.
 
#15 ·
Its funny that Italian steel and other Europian bikes are still seen as exclusive. When bikes makers - mostly American - started to mess with more advance materials like Titanium, Aluminum, Carbon and joining methods like bonding and tig welding steel, Italian steel kinda seemed heavy and out of date to me. It still represented some of the most comforable bikes, but when people were seen riding one of the older-style brazed bikes, it seemed to me like they were giving up performance and a bunch of their money for a bike that was more show than go. Sure, old steel is comfortable and beautiful to look at, but much of it was overweight snob equipment. Less so today, but in the 1990's I could not understand it.

Then American titanium makers, led by Litespeed, started building titanium bikes for makers like DeRosa and Mercx (sp?) so the old guard could catch up in technology. Trek, Litespeed and others may be common here, but they are less so in Europe. For a long time you could buy a nice Klein or C'dale in the US, take it to Europe and sell it their with enough profit to finance a bunch of your trip. I am guessing they are more available in Europe now.

Trek may be common, but maybe its for a good reason. They rock for a good price and really have them most advanced R&D out there.

I think one of the previous posters was correct though in that mt. bike equip is more American because the sport was born here.
 
#16 ·
There's always going to be brands that are more like a Chevrolet/Ford type deal,
utilitarian - nice, but still basic transportation and then there is your BMW/Audi
and then there's your Ferrari/Lamborghini. Same with bikes - you'll have the Trek
and Specialized (still nice but is it as nice as a custom Pegoretti or something?)
and so on. There's different levels.

If it's important to you to buy american there are a LOT of choices out there, you
just need to know where to look.
 
#17 ·
Road & Mountain riding are just different.

A lot of what is prized by road riders makes very little sense. A lot of the in-vogue Euro Road bikes right now are almost no different then a Trek or a Cannondale.

There is always an undercurrent in road riding of "Euro is better". Probably because as others have said the sport of road racing is very ingrained in the European culture.

But as far as advancement there is very little objectively that you can point to and say it shows Europeans make better high end race bikes then the big American companies. How far ahead was Trek on Carbon? Many many years ahead right?

Also road bike brands seem to go from nothing to the hot fad practically overnight. ISTR Felt coming out of nowhere the last few years. When did they launch? 2004 or so? Just another company marketing a bike made overseas and yet they became extremely hot very quickly and people and shops were actively telling me they were so much better then Trek, Cannondale, etc.. when the company had nothing to back it up.

IF is another one. I used to live within a mile or two of the IF factory. At one point they were an almost complete unknown, I'd see them around town, mostly inexpensive steel fixed gear frames, etc.. There was no presence in the local race scene. (And AFAICT they still have no presence, almost no one is riding them around Boston, some are, but not many.) Then seemingly overnight through marketing or some other smart move they catapulted up to a point where people think they are one of the top brands in the world with their name on the lips of so many riders, and the frames commanding obscene prices. What changed? You could almost say Seven is the same thing although I don't think it's quite the same. They are both very young companies though, certainly minimal "heritage" compared to many European brands or even Trek, Cannondale, Specialized, etc..

Many many of the current European Pro Tour bikes & companies seem to have fairly short histories. While there are some with long traditions others seem like complete unknowns. When they're that unknown and have so few racing victories to their name you wonder how people can get so excited about their bikes when they are just another cookie cutter carbon frame that costs megabucks and is available in very few sizes.

Mountain bikers seem to ignore the "prestige" factor more often. Concern always seems centered around which frames are getting broken, who has the best new rear suspension design, etc, etc, etc..

Traditionalism is not valued nearly as much in MTB design. It may be that the lack of desire to stick to traditional designs has greatly benefited American Brands as American business strengths often seem to revolve around rapid innovation and new ideas. The more through stratification of moutain bikes into different designs (XC, Trail, Slalom, Freeride, Downhill, etc..) also seems to be a factor.

I assume we will get a European poster in here who will mention (as I've read in the past) that Trek & Cannondale are much more highly prized bikes in Europe then they are in the US. The grass is always greener on the other side.
 
#18 ·
Road is something special. Its more sophisticated and the Europeans started it. When I see an American made bike they often over look what makes an 'amazing' bike. Yes they build some good product, light, stiff and spend more on advertising.

However, they will never be what I think of when I think if high end road bikes. They just seem to be missing something. Maybe its the same thing as I see with cars, I like the imports better.

I've ridden a handful of American made bikes, and yes they road well; but nothing like my French made bike.
 
#21 ·
Disagree.....

Sub said:
almost all of those bikes you mention are custom bike builders though, which I think is not what the OP was talking about. I'm sure there are tons of Custom builders in Europe that make very nice and desirable bikes as well. Comparing Mass produced bikes, there are not that many American brands. It has alot to do with the exclusivity of it, TREK makes as good a bike as anyone in the world, yet they couldn't be any less appealing to me because 75% of the people in my area ride them. I Ride a DeRosa Merak and my training partner rides the BMC SLC01 which is a very nice bike.
first of all, the OP only spoke of High end bikes...it's hard to argue that any of those on my list wouldn't qualify as High end. In addition, many of the bikes offered by this list are less expensive that some of the more marketed "High end bikes"

In addition, severl on the list do offer stock frames.

Finally, custom framebuilding in America is as good or better than it's ever been......and is much stonger than the custom makers in Europe.

America has many High end bike manufacturers.

Len
 
#22 ·
Colnago is "high end" only because it's made in Italy, and appears to be exotic. But how is a Colnago C40/50 more high end than a topflight Trek Madone or Specialized S-Works? Both can cost around $6000 (price exclusivity) and the Trek/Specialized models entail heavy R&D to create the advanced composite materials. Lance Armstrong road a Trek to much success, that alone should raise the standing of Trek the same way Michael Schumacher rides Ferrari to success.

The problem is that both Trek and Specialized make affordable bikes ridden en masse by the public, so that accessibility destroys the panache of exclusivity. Colnago's "cheapest" model is still much more expensive than a Specialized beach cruiser.

If Trek and Specialized want to be perceived as "high end" they just have to eliminate all models costing under $2500, and voila... high end. However, that's not smart business. Which is why Trek and Specialized are much bigger businesses than Colnago.
 
#23 ·
They also......

Kung Fu Felice said:
Colnago is "high end" only because it's made in Italy, and appears to be exotic. But how is a Colnago C40/50 more high end than a topflight Trek Madone or Specialized S-Works? Both can cost around $6000 (price exclusivity) and the Trek/Specialized models entail heavy R&D to create the advanced composite materials. Lance Armstrong road a Trek to much success, that alone should raise the standing of Trek the same way Michael Schumacher rides Ferrari to success.

The problem is that both Trek and Specialized make affordable bikes ridden en masse by the public, so that accessibility destroys the panache of exclusivity. Colnago's "cheapest" model is still much more expensive than a Specialized beach cruiser.

If Trek and Specialized want to be perceived as "high end" they just have to eliminate all models costing under $2500, and voila... high end. However, that's not smart business. Which is why Trek and Specialized are much bigger businesses than Colnago.
have to come up with geometry that works.

Treks short HT's/ST's relative to their TT's ensure the ugliest front ends for the majority of riders. Specialized screwed up front centers on the majority of their bikes ensure squirly handling, especially descending and bikes that you can't ignore while riding...a recipe for disaster (See Boonen's problems for an example).

Panache, wether american or european comes first and foremost from function.

Len
 
#24 · (Edited)
sonyisdope said:
Just some examples, I know that there are some American companies out there, but it seems to me that BMC and Orbea are the "hot bikes" to get right now, and neither of them is American. Not that I have anything against American/Non-American companies, I'm just curious, that's all. So why the foreign dominance in dreamy bikes?
all my current bikes are american.
IMO they make the best frame for the price. .

Road
Merlin Lunaris
Seven Aerios
Litespeed Ghisallo
Kestrel Evoke
Cannondale R800

MTB
Klein Attitude
Specialized S-works

If I can have only one road bike, Litespeed would be my choice. In fact, if I purchase another bike, an european bike MAY be considered if I get a good deal.
 
#26 ·
A lot has to do with "Feel" and handling. I have an older ('82) steel Celeste Bianchi, Columbus tubing, all Campy, Tubulars, that I'd still ride hard today because it was the most comfortable bike I had ever ridden centuries on. It's got over 30,000 miles on it, but it's age and suspected stress cracks keep it on the wall these days. I replaced it with a LeMonde Alpe, Reynolds 853 US made Tig steel, Reynolds Ouzo Pro, etc. While it had much of the geometry of the Bianchi, it just didn't "Feel" as good as the Bianchi. After about 5,000 miles, I replaced it with a Colnago Master XL. The Colnago has that "Feel" that I missed so much on the Bianchi. Back to riding comfortable cenuries... I rode a friends Merlin that also had the "Feel". Also ask a rider why he has Campy or Shimano. The Campy riders all talk about the "Feel". A Corvette is just as fast as a Ferrari, but the "Feel" of the Ferrari as it drives is a completely different animal. Oh, my Mtn Bikes? A Klein Pulse Comp Hardtail (The one with internal cables before Trek took over) and a Specialized Epic Comp.
 
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