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  1. #151
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    Absolutely we should welcome e-bikes on all rides, group, centuries, etc, etc.. At a minimum it gets people off of the couch and into our world. At best it provides a gateway for older or physically challenged indivuals to join in the fun and to eventually buy a real bike.. Although it’s a little disappointing to get dropped by the fast group only to see an e-bike drafting the group as you’re getting your butt kicked. Additionally if they are riding an e-bike they will have more respect for us when they are in the car.. It’s truly a win for us..

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by n2deep View Post
    Absolutely we should welcome e-bikes on all rides, group, centuries, etc, etc.. At a minimum it gets people off of the couch and into our world. At best it provides a gateway for older or physically challenged indivuals to join in the fun and to eventually buy a real bike.. Although it’s a little disappointing to get dropped by the fast group only to see an e-bike drafting the group as you’re getting your butt kicked. Additionally if they are riding an e-bike they will have more respect for us when they are in the car.. It’s truly a win for us..
    I would concur. If it's an e-assist bike, the rider is still pedaling, so they are getting some exercise. As you say, it's a whole hell of a lot better than plopping on the couch with a beer in one hand and a remote control in the other.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    They sure look like bicycles.

    Attachment 324001
    Hey, if people call motorcycles "bikes", why not e-bikes? In some circles, if you say you have a bike, they may ask if it's a Honda, a Yamaha or a Harley.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I would concur. If it's an e-assist bike, the rider is still pedaling, so they are getting some exercise. As you say, it's a whole hell of a lot better than plopping on the couch with a beer in one hand and a remote control in the other.
    Yup. You've got to put wattage in them to make them go. It's way more exercise than a driving a car.

    Here's what I want - I want a pedal-assist bike that I can connect a trainerroad workout to and have the e-assist kick in below a certain speed to keep me going fast even if I'm in between intervals. They've got all the tech to be rolling smart trainers already in them, it'd probably just be software programming to make it happen. That way I can do a pre-set workout and commute at the exact same time.

  5. #155
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    It's a Kawasaki & I'm taking it to the next 'group' ride.

    and it's better than sitting on the couch with a beer. Cause I'm standing and throwing gravel & sheit everywhere!
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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjdhawkhill View Post
    I’ve gone on [my] LSD runs with [now wife] on roller blades. I guess that indicates how much I love her because that’s not a couples run. That’s me running and her roller blading. I knew what was coming and welcomed the company, but she never came to the track with me for 800 repeats or 3k repeats.

    Maybe you underestimate the esprit de corps of sharing the effort/suffering/experience with others. A group track running workout probably should bar roller blades...






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    You run fast! Maybe she skates easy... I hold a 14/15mph pace over 15-20 mile skates. Granted I’m on 110 wheels and a low cut speed skating shoe.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  7. #157
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    Ironically, today's GCN Tech talks a little about the Ribble bike in my original post and gives their 2 cents on the ebike topic.

    They point out that they have a specific YouTube channel just for eBikes... eMBN. I'm glad they've isolated ebikes to a separate channel because quite frankly, I'm already a tad tired of hearing about them Not that they're evil, but when I want to learn about bicycles, I want to learn about bicycles, not motorized bicycles. I understand that ebikes are probably where all the money is in the bike industry these days... but I don't care!!!!

  8. #158
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    If it's a sociable ride, I suspect they'll usually be allowed, with the proviso that if they ride off the front, nobody will chase them. If it's a training group, they'll probably be asked to do their own ride or stay at the back so as to not disturb the group dynamics. I've been asked to stay at the back before, and it's totally understandable. My speed profile is different, and anyway nobody wants to be the guy trying to draft me.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    I'll make you a deal. If we all agree to call them "mopeds", then I'll celebrate all the cool advancements - 'cause they're not bicycles. But if they're going to be considered just another form of bike, e.g road bike, mountain bike, ebike... , then yeah... that's a sad direction the "bicycle" market is heading.
    I couldn't care less what you or anyone calls them. I'll stick with 'ebikes' simply because that's the word that most specifically describes what I'm talking about.
    I definitely agree they are not 'bicycles'.

  10. #160
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    I thought maybe we could determine if an ebike truly is a bicycle based on the history of the word "bicycle", but I don't think we can. "Bicycle" comes from "bi" and "cycle", with "bi" meaning "two" and "cycle" from the Middle English cicle, from Late Latin cyclus, from Greek kyklos circle... so "two circles".

    However, in English, we have the word "motorcycle", for obvious reasons, and in the early days of motorcycles, they basically were bicycles with motors. An ebike clearly has a motor.

    Would anyone call the following a bicycle? I don't think so, even though it has cranks and pedals. The only real difference between this motorcycle and an ebike is that an ebike has an electric motor.



    So as far as I'm concerned, "ebike" is a marketing term (which is fine), but ebikes are actually motorcycles when you want to be technical.

  11. #161
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    That guy on the indian motor bicycle needs to adj his saddle so it isn't pointy uppy, or he isn't riding with us.

    Don't be that guy!
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  12. #162
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    I think the 'it gets people off the couch' defense of ebikes is probably the most compelling to me, but what does it say about the way our society is headed that it takes a motor to get someone on a bike? Part of this is fueled by the bicycle industry that is always looking for something new to sell you. One of my coworkers commutes quite a bit on a bicycle and decided to buy a new one recently. He said he got a really hard sell at the LBS on an ebike. He didn't buy one.

    Another compelling argument is that its a way for the elderly and disabled to get out and ride. That makes sense. But most people I see who are commuting on them are young and look perfectly able to pedal a real bike. And I don't see them until I get fairly close to DC -- so they're not even riding very far. A low end ebike costs $2k. For that money you could get a decent entry level road bike and get some exercise.

    Pedal assist. Yeah, you have to pedal it, but not very much. Yeah, you're getting some 'exercise', but not nearly as much as your lazy @ss would get pedaling a real bike.

    Bicycle = ebike? They're manufactured by bicycle companies (e.g. Trek). They're marketed through bike shops. With the exception of the motor, they're bicycles. Semantics really.

  13. #163
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    Epacers will make it easier to hear the band and pitch woo to Euro hotties at six day races.


  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bremerradkurier View Post
    Epacers will make it easier to hear the band and pitch woo to Euro hotties at six day races.

    This is perhaps the most convincing argument in support of ebikes written so far. It changes everything I thought I knew about ebikes

  15. #165
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    I haven't looked back thru all these posts so forgive if I repeat.

    Henri DesGrange was thrilled when mountain stages were added to le Tour and pizzered when Campagnolo offered sissy changeable gear ratios.

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    This is perhaps the most convincing argument in support of ebikes written so far.
    Another convincing argument is that e-bikes make cycling more popular among women. Few thngs are more sexy than a woman in a nice summer dress & high heels on a bike. For a reason I don't understand they prefer dorky helmets in fluo colors, Nutcase-style, but that makes them even more sexy.

    The summum obviously is a woman in a nice summer dress on a race bike - I see them once in a while - but unfortunately they are rare.


  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by HFroller View Post
    Another convincing argument is that e-bikes make cycling more popular among women. Few thngs are more sexy than a woman in a nice summer dress & high heels on a bike. For a reason I don't understand they prefer dorky helmets in fluo colors, Nutcase-style, but that makes them even more sexy.

    The summum obviously is a woman in a nice summer dress on a race bike - I see them once in a while - but unfortunately they are rare.
    Hmmm. There's about 8-10 women in my cycling group. None of them ride with dresses, high heels, or dorky helmets.
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  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Hmmm. There's about 8-10 women in my cycling group. None of them ride with dresses, high heels, or dorky helmets.
    I thought this discussion stopped being exclusively about e-bikes in group rides a long time ago?

    I was talking about e-bikes in general, or to be more specific in general, about the women in the (European) city where I work.

    Have you never seen women in a nice summer dress on a race bike, confidently weaving their way through the city traffic? They're the living proof that the bicycle is the greatest invention ever.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by HFroller View Post
    I thought this discussion stopped being exclusively about e-bikes in group rides a long time ago?
    I wasn't talking about ebikes. I was pointing out you don't need ebikes to find women riding bikes.

    Have you never seen women in a nice summer dress on a race bike, confidently waving their way through the city traffic?
    Can't say I have. I prefer them in lycra anyway.
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  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Can't say I have. I prefer them in lycra anyway.
    Of course, women were riding bikes before the e-bike. But I see more women on bikes now than I saw five years ago, and many of them are on e-bikes.

    Nothing wrong with lycra, but I was cycling through Paris in july, and on two occasions I saw a woman in a dress on an old beaten up race bike, Peugeot I think. For that marvelous sight, slightly nonsensical and endearing at the same time, I would have exchanged all the lycra in the world (except the lycra I was wearing myself, of course).

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Hmmm. There's about 8-10 women in my cycling group. None of them ride with dresses, high heels, or dorky helmets.
    You see them on the Greenways in NYC.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    You run fast! Maybe she skates easy... I hold a 14/15mph pace over 15-20 mile skates. Granted I’m on 110 wheels and a low cut speed skating shoe.
    I used to run slowly. She skated proportionately slower. In/on her 8th grade pair of roller blades. And like all roller bladers, she managed to take up the whole dang path if she wasn’t careful.

    Now she runs long and slowly. I watch the kids. Sometimes I get to ride my bike alone, or with the kids (trailer and/or alongside). Sometimes she runs and then we ride as a family. Not a lot of co-exercise happens anymore with 6,4&2 year olds underfoot.




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  23. #173
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    Will You Let eBikes in Your Group Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield View Post
    I thought maybe we could determine if an ebike truly is a bicycle based on the history of the word "bicycle", but I don't think we can. "Bicycle" comes from "bi" and "cycle", with "bi" meaning "two" and "cycle" from the Middle English cicle, from Late Latin cyclus, from Greek kyklos circle... so "two circles".

    However, in English, we have the word "motorcycle", for obvious reasons, and in the early days of motorcycles, they basically were bicycles with motors. An ebike clearly has a motor.

    Would anyone call the following a bicycle? I don't think so, even though it has cranks and pedals. The only real difference between this motorcycle and an ebike is that an ebike has an electric motor.



    So as far as I'm concerned, "ebike" is a marketing term (which is fine), but ebikes are actually motorcycles when you want to be technical.
    Or, as I’ve always said, they’re mopeds. “Motorcycles” have since evolved to only motor propulsion, and mopeds filled the gap between bicycles and motorcycles. Either way, if it’s got a motor of any sort, it’s no longer a bicycle.

    We’re simply watching the same type of development with electric motors and carbon fiber that occurred 90~125 years ago with steel, steam and internal combustion engines.

    Some bicycle companies are simply repeating history with new technologies.

    “Being a moped, the Derny had both a 98 cc (6.0 cu in) Zurcher two-stroke engine and pedals on a chainring sprocket, typically with 70 teeth on the front and 11 on the rear-wheel sprocket.” -Wikipedia

    How bout ‘dem gear inches?

    Either way, of the person riding the e-moped isn’t a danger to the group, and isn’t a social nimrod, I wouldn’t boot them from the ride. One could always use a pull back home into the wind.








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    Last edited by kjdhawkhill; 3 Days Ago at 06:15 PM.
    The internet is a little like a bar, a wonderful place where we can bullsh(t our past, but it also, is full of reasonably reliable sources of information to be used as ammo to call "bullish)t."

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Scorcho View Post
    P.S. “Sarcasm is the protest of those who are weak.” John Knowles
    John Knowles probably couldn’t bench press the chair he sat on. gosh-darn draft-dodging yankees.


    (I admit, I had his weakness in mind before I even tried to figure out who he was.)



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  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Well, we manual bike riders can hang with the electrics until their batteries discharge and then drop 'em on the next climb! Those things weigh around 50#, very heavy without power.

    For long afternoons exploring the countryside, I'll choose my own power, thanks. I hate batteries. They're the achilles heel of the digital age. They always screw it up sooner or later. The legs are much more reliable.
    My wife's e-bike does 29mph before assist stops. It weighs 36 lbs. It will climb 5400 vertical (the four mountain passes of the Sella Ronda) on one battery with my wife riding it. There is no way in this world that you could beat her around the Sella Ronda even though you may be able to beat her on the descents.

    I used her bike for an emergency run after a long training ride on the Sunrise climb of mt Rainier. My nephews wife failed to show up after the rest of us had finished the descent (behind a locked gate) and the slowest speed I saw on the 6% nine mile climb was 18mph and often I was doing 22mph (I was likely contributing about 200 watts). Turns out she had a flat and screwed up her only co2 cartridge)

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