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  1. #1
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    Need Parts for a stripped Look 585

    Got what seemed like a great deal on a bare frame--but it is really bare!

    Hawley (new distributor) does not seem to have small parts (although I have not called them during business hours).

    Needs:

    Head tube cable guides (I can find these at various UK sites)--any US sources?

    Headset: can anyone tell me an FSA model number that will fit--from my measurements, the current gen integrated headsets are not the right size. From another post it looks as if I need 41mm OD bearings (which is about what I measure on the headset tube @ 41.14mm

    --I did find Look 585 headset kits on UK sites, but since I don't have the original fork, I'm worried that they will not include the crown race, plus they are spendy;

    Headset bearing seats: C-40 in an old post described these as 'split ring bearing seats that fit inside frame', and someone else described these as 'thin metal concave washers that sit between bearing and carbon fiber ridge inside head tube'.
    These I have not run across anywhere & are critical to the whole project.

    (FSA microspacers for headset can be purchased at Jensens);

    Bottom bracket cable guide: Hawley show no stock, but list two varieties--a single hole and double hole version--any ideas about which will fit a first gen 585?

    I found one version of this available on a UK site.

    Any help would be appreciated!!

    Dean
    Last edited by paredown; 07-10-2016 at 04:17 AM.
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

  2. #2
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    Looks like this might be the FSA headset on eBay:
    FSA Orbit Is Carbon Integrated Headset 15 17mm | eBay

    Anyone confirm?

    Edit to add:

    Headset Style: Integrated
    Contact Angles: 36 / 45
    Steerer Diameter: 1-1/8-in
    Stack Height: 17mm
    Bearing Type: Ceramic
    Top Bearing O.D.: 41mm
    Bottom Bearing O.D.: 41mm
    Last edited by paredown; 07-14-2016 at 03:59 AM.
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

  3. #3
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    I have the last year of the lugged 585, which is what I assume you mean by first gen.

    It has a single screw holding the BB cable guide.

    I'd like to help with some of your other questions, but then I'd have to disassemble the front end.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    I have the last year of the lugged 585, which is what I assume you mean by first gen.

    It has a single screw holding the BB cable guide.

    I'd like to help with some of your other questions, but then I'd have to disassemble the front end.
    Cheers!

    I was thinking about sending you a PM when I saw the thread about you getting a 585. (I did send one to C-40, although it looks as if it has been a long while since he posted...)

    I'm pretty sure about the headset--it is the inner bearing seats that are most worrisome--I found another thread that makes it sound like the screws holding in the headset cable stops hold a piece in the bottom, and there is another loose piece between that and the bottom bearing...
    Look 585 frame + fork - gap okay?

    I'll wait until I make some calls on Monday before I make the extra-special request for you to take yours apart.
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by paredown View Post
    Cheers!

    I was thinking about sending you a PM when I saw the thread about you getting a 585. (I did send one to C-40, although it looks as if it has been a long while since he posted...)

    I'm pretty sure about the headset--it is the inner bearing seats that are most worrisome--I found another thread that makes it sound like the screws holding in the headset cable stops hold a piece in the bottom, and there is another loose piece between that and the bottom bearing...
    Look 585 frame + fork - gap okay?

    I'll wait until I make some calls on Monday before I make the extra-special request for you to take yours apart.
    No,definitely not. The cable holders are just a nice to have thing. Nothing else. I suspect that a standard fork and headset would work just fine. The only thing special with LOOK was a thin threaded ring that allows headset preload to be set independently.

    My complete frameset in mint condition was $750 One of my 2 or 3 best bikes

    Need Parts for a stripped Look 585-look5851.jpg
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  6. #6
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    More digging--have a call into Hawley, but don't know if I will get a call back--they seem very trade-oriented.

    I did finally find an accurate description of the bearing seats and the purpose they serve on (of course) the Park Tool web page for headset install:
    Headset Standards | Park Tool

    Here's the picture they provide of a generic one (I have no idea if the Look ones are similar, but other posters have described them as a split ring type...)
    Giant apparently used some version of a replaceable ring as well.
    Attachment 315050Name:  headset305.jpg
Views: 427
Size:  23.0 KB
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

  7. #7
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    Well, the plot thickens--I think that my 585 (early generation) has bonded in metal rings--as per this thread on replacing a headset in a 555:
    Look 555 headset question.

    I think (although it is conjecture) the later production (when they switched to the Ultra/Optimum/Origin) may have changed to a replaceable ring, since there are threads that talk about installing the split ring bearing seats.

    I wish Justin was still around.
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

  8. #8
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    I got the impression that the frame was in your possession. I guess not?
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    I got the impression that the frame was in your possession. I guess not?
    No, it's in my possession--but the eyesight isn't what it used to be!

    Once I cleaned it up, and hit it with a little nub of Wet-Dry, I could see the metal underneath a black finish, so the ridges in the head tube definitely have a bonded metal face both top and bottom.

    I'm still puzzled though whether I am missing an essential piece (or pieces), since there are threads about 585s that talk about split ring bearing seats.

    I think I'm going to purchase the FSA head set I linked--it matches for bearing angles (internal and external) as well as the diameter, and stick that puppy in there and see what I have. (I have left messages all over the place as well, so maybe someone can provide the definitive word.)
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

  10. #10
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    And then I went back and checked a Look install manual that I found, and it clearly states that there are "two removable inner and outer bearing thrust rings" that are factory installed, and the picture shows what looks to be a split ring design.

    Help!Attachment 315074
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Need Parts for a stripped Look 585-look_head.jpg  
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

  11. #11
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    If you can see metal rings in there, then those are the thrust rings. They normally sit there, and are replaceable in case of damage, which should not normally happen.

    Either that or in some versions, LOOK just bonded in conventional bearing seats.

    I think you'll be fine.

    Did you buy a fork?
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  12. #12
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    You are probably right--and once I have the headset in my hands I think the angles will either match (and I have what I need), or they won't and I'm missing bits.

    A fellow forumite has a 3T Funda (NOS) that he received in that Cervelo replacement program. It's a 43 rake, and I think about the same crown to axle as the Look forks. Not cheap, but decent quality.

    The Look HSC5sl seem to be as scarce as hen's teeth at this point.

    Edit to add:
    Look: axle to crown 368mm; 43 rake
    3T: axle to crown 367mm; 43 rake (also 49)
    Last edited by paredown; 07-14-2016 at 03:57 AM.
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

  13. #13
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    I went through a HSC5 fork replacement hunt for my 585. I eventually ended up getting a used one from Hawley from a warrantied frameset through my LBS. It was not the exact paint scheme but worked out. I ended up paying $$$ but I felt the bike was worth it and it turned out well.
    Hawley told me that the only fork that would work on the 585 is a HSC5. It has a tapered crown race molded in the fork. I was told a HSC4 with the correct crown race installed would work but I could not find a crown race to make it work. While researching, my LBS was willing to give me a Trek OCLV fork that had a similar tapered race on the aluminum steerer. It looked bad but would have worked. I have read that a Alpha Q fork will work. IMO nothing looks as good as an HSC5.
    I found a NOS HSC5 on French eBay but I assume the seller didn't want to hassle with the US sale as they never replied. So if you have a French connection there is always that.


    FYI: My BB cable guide has one hole

    I respect the fact that Hawley insists you go through a LBS to order parts.

    Maybe you already have this contact info:

    Jeremy Holdway | Warranty & Technical Support
    Hawley LLC |800.822.1980 ext 3007 | 775-284-7477
    650 Vista Blvd Ste 300 | Sparks, NV 89434
    www.hawleyusa.com
    Look Cycle - Clipless pedals and carbon bikes

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rePhil View Post
    I went through a HSC5 fork replacement hunt for my 585. I eventually ended up getting a used one from Hawley from a warrantied frameset through my LBS. It was not the exact paint scheme but worked out. I ended up paying $$$ but I felt the bike was worth it and it turned out well.
    Hawley told me that the only fork that would work on the 585 is a HSC5. It has a tapered crown race molded in the fork. I was told a HSC4 with the correct crown race installed would work but I could not find a crown race to make it work. While researching, my LBS was willing to give me a Trek OCLV fork that had a similar tapered race on the aluminum steerer. It looked bad but would have worked. I have read that a Alpha Q fork will work. IMO nothing looks as good as an HSC5.
    I found a NOS HSC5 on French eBay but I assume the seller didn't want to hassle with the US sale as they never replied. So if you have a French connection there is always that.


    FYI: My BB cable guide has one hole

    I respect the fact that Hawley insists you go through a LBS to order parts.

    Maybe you already have this contact info:

    Jeremy Holdway | Warranty & Technical Support
    Hawley LLC |800.822.1980 ext 3007 | 775-284-7477
    650 Vista Blvd Ste 300 | Sparks, NV 89434
    www.hawleyusa.com
    Look Cycle - Clipless pedals and carbon bikes
    Thanks for the contact info--I called the Hawley service line and left a message, and did an email off the web page, but so far no response.

    I know that someone on the Paceline forum used an Alpha Q--but it seems to me that so long as you replace the whole headset, the crown race that comes with the new headset should work. (At least I can't imagine that the Look branded FSA headset they originally spec'd is so proprietary that nothing else will work--but we'll see.... There were lots of threads on this site where C-40 chimed in and insisted that the headset was a fairly standard integrated style--and so long as you matched bearing size and angle you were good.)

    My biggest worry though is still the bearing seats--and I was trying to get a confirmation from Hawley that they are in fact necessary, since the online threads are a bit contradictory.

    There is one dealer that is fairly local to me--R&A Cycles in Brooklyn, and although they are not my favorite, I would purchase through them if that is the only way to get the bearing races if they are needed.

    Edit for second thoughts: I guess for aesthetics, a replacement fork should be designed for an integrated headset, otherwise the crown of the fork will look funny as compared to the head tube size...
    Last edited by paredown; 07-12-2016 at 06:01 PM.
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

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    I "think" you will find that the bearing seats are necessary. The bearings are tapered and fit into the seats which then fit into the head tube, and stop at a ledge.The ledge inside the head tube is not tapered. Hopefully R&A can help you out. If you speak to someone with a lot of 585 knowledge, I would be curious as to what they say about using other forks.
    What size is your frame?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rePhil View Post
    I "think" you will find that the bearing seats are necessary. The bearings are tapered and fit into the seats which then fit into the head tube, and stop at a ledge.The ledge inside the head tube is not tapered. Hopefully R&A can help you out. If you speak to someone with a lot of 585 knowledge, I would be curious as to what they say about using other forks.
    What size is your frame?
    I emailed your contact at Hawley this morning so maybe I will get to the bottom of this yet.

    The frame is a L.

    Have you had a good look at the ledge inside your head tube?

    This one definitely has a bonded metal piece top and bottom--so not just bare CF. It is flat in center, with a slight angle section as it ramps up to the walls of the head tube (it may in fact be two separate pieces).

    Although that install guide I excepted mentions the thrust washers being replaceable, the thread that I quoted above for the 566 headset install, the poster (who seemed to know what they were talking about) thought that the 585s had bonded in place seats like the 566. Yet other threads online speak about them being replaceable (an advantage over Cervelos for example).

    I have ordered an FSA integrated headset with the tapers that match the Look set, so once I have that in hand I will know if there are parts missing. If you have never seen an integrated headset before, you are at a disadvantage until you see one.

    My slightly lukewarm feelings about R&A is that they love it if you are dropping $10k on a bike, but they are not very helpful when you come in looking for a $5.00 repair part...
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

  17. #17
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    My curiosity got the better of me, and I had to take mine apart.

    It appears to me that there is a metallic insert bonded into the lug, which has a ledge which is located 8.5 mm down from the top. There is then a drop-in insert and the bearing. The bearing in mine is marked "TH Industries 36 x 45 873S# Stainless"

    The HSC5 fork has a label "R700/L300/C43" which I take to mean 43 deg rake. The crown race is moulded in.

    Need Parts for a stripped Look 585-img_20160713_105447915_hdr.jpg

    Need Parts for a stripped Look 585-img_20160713_105602768.jpg

    Need Parts for a stripped Look 585-img_20160713_111800835.jpg
    Last edited by bikerjulio; 07-13-2016 at 07:23 AM.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  18. #18
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    I have a Cane Creek 110.IS41 headset on my 585. I checked with the folks at Cane Creek and they confirmed this headset will work perfectly on a 585 and I haven't had any problems with this. So this is another option for you.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    My curiosity got the better of me, and I had to take mine apart.

    It appears to me that there is a metallic insert bonded into the lug, which has a ledge which is located 8.5 mm down from the top. There is then a drop-in insert and the bearing. The bearing in mine is marked "TH Industries 36 x 45 873S# Stainless"

    The HSC5 fork has a label "R700/L300/C43" which I take to mean 43 deg rake. The crown race is moulded in.
    Thanks--
    Even more above and beyond than shipping me those rim ferrules!!

    The piece you are describing as the 'drop in insert' is bottom left, I presume, and looks like the split ring style on the LOOK install sheet.

    Is it possible that there was a second one on the bottom that didn't fall out when you took the fork out?

    Your head tube internals look just like mine, so it looks like I need those bearing retainers.

    Thanks,
    Dean
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith A View Post
    I have a Cane Creek 110.IS41 headset on my 585. I checked with the folks at Cane Creek and they confirmed this headset will work perfectly on a 585 and I haven't had any problems with this. So this is another option for you.
    Yes--that is almost identical to the FSA I purchased (although I got one with a taller cap).
    Spec on that Cane Creek headset:
    1 1/8" threadless
    36x45 degree bearing standard
    41mm OD spec

    I would still have the problem though that there is nothing there for the bearing to ride against inside the head tube.

    Oddly, the Look replacement headset does not include those seats, even though the seats are wear items and even though the headset is hella expensive.

    Neither major headset manufacturer provides the seats with a standard 36x45 angular contact integrated headset, since they think that the implementation of the removable seat was the frame manufacturers' responsibility, and therefore not part of a replacement headset.

    The tech rep I was emailing with at FSA understood the problem but had no idea how one could go about acquiring the seats. Apparently they used to make a headset that included them--the FSA Orbit SPX but it appears to have vanished from the market.

    Falling between the cracks, anyone?
    Last edited by paredown; 07-14-2016 at 04:12 AM.
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

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    Yes the insert is the bottom left in the pic. I'm assuming the bottom was the same. Did not do a complete dissassembly.

    Since LOOK brag about the replaceability of those things, one would think they have to be available from them.

    I remember shaking those ferrules out of the rim, but I'd forgotten it was you.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  22. #22
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    Heard back from Jeremy from Hawley late today. I'd asked if they were necessary and could they supply:

    Question 1: Yes, you do need those bearing seats.

    Question 2: Yes, we can supply them.

    Any shop with a Hawley account can order these for you, they need not be a LOOK bike dealer. Please have them contact us when you’re ready.
    So that's good--I will try one of the local shops to see if they can order them. I would like to know about pricing, but will report back.

    While I was losing patience I ordered some seats (what I think is a comparable item) from an English headset maker called Hope (they make the Head Doctor compression plug)--already done, so I will compare and report.

    The other possibility (since it seems that the Hope seats will work with the older Giant TCR frames that also used a replaceable seat) is that Giant still sells a replacement headset that includes the seats:

    Link: https://www.amaincycling.com/giant-1...490201/p332165
    picture attached.

    Now I think that the bearings & possibly stack height from that headset would be wrong for a Look, since Giant uses a 45x45 (Campy standard) bearing, but since the outside angle is the same, and the outside diameter is the same, I think that the included seats would work. I may blow the $40 to confirm my suspicions...Attachment 315120
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by paredown; 07-14-2016 at 04:13 AM.
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

  23. #23
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    FWIW, I thought I would update this to say I ordered a LOOK 585 seatpost clamp, the bottom bracket cable guide and the headtube cable guides from Amazon UK--our Prime login works, and the total including shipping was about 35 GBP.

    I found cheaper prices, but did not know the websites, and it seemed easier to order from one site that has a returns policy...
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

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    I am curious as to why your frame was missing all those bits, do you have the story?

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    Oh drat--the Hope branded seats from the UK are no longer available.

    Still waiting on the LBS to order the Look bearing seats directly. I stopped in at a local GIANT dealer hoping to have a look-see at the GIANT headset--and got the 'we can order it for you'.

    3T Fork arrived--near perfect condition, uncut. Removed the old crown race, and installed the one from the new FSA headset.

    My worries about aesthetics are answered--the crown is bulky enough that it looks to be the same size as the head tube. The carbon is a little more glossy than the frame though, but a good polish on the frame may make that difference less visible...

    I also noticed on another pass at the frame that the rear derailleur hanger is also missing--ordered that as well.

    @RePhil--short version of the story--the bike had been crashed and was sold to me as a non-rider (but they didn't say stripped). After a careful examination, I could see no evidence of crash damage so I decided to build it up--but I feel like I got a good enough deal that it is worth the hustle for parts.

    Besides, I will know a lot about 585s when I'm done, and since the size/position is also a bit of a gamble, I will maybe shop for a different one when I'm done with this one.
    Last edited by paredown; 09-04-2017 at 12:08 PM.
    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
    John Rogers

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