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  1. #251
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    Can anyone knowledgeable break down the differences between the BMW M2/3/4/5? I think I got too many Ms on my list.

    I hear the M2's actually the one to have, 'cuz lighter weight. And handling. Izzat so?

    Also hear that some of the BMW M-Series are not quite the cars they used to be, i.e. not as fun or as 'put together' handling-wise as previous gens.

    .
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  2. #252
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    Porsche Boxster Spyder. But you'd have to wait towards the end of this year/start of next... And start buttering up your dealership today.

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Can anyone knowledgeable break down the differences between the BMW M2/3/4/5? I think I got too many Ms on my list.

    I hear the M2's actually the one to have, 'cuz lighter weight. And handling. Izzat so?

    Also hear that some of the BMW M-Series are not quite the cars they used to be, i.e. not as fun or as 'put together' handling-wise as previous gens.

    .
    Heard the M2 is the true "driver's M car" and is more akin to the E30 M3 in size.

    M3 is 4 doors and M4 is 2 doors. Coworker picked up an M3 Competition late last year, still haven't gone for a spin in it though. It has been said that the Competition pack makes the M3 competitive again.

    M5: https://jalopnik.com/2018-bmw-m5-mak...awd-1821018158

    Going back to the Subaru recommendation. A STI without the boy racer look will be a Subaru Legacy GT Spec.B. Slightly detuned version of the STI motor, but with a 6 speed manual and the controllable diff.

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason124 View Post
    Heard the M2 is the true "driver's M car" and is more akin to the E30 M3 in size.
    And, Doug seems to think the M2 is the best current M-car, period.







    Going back to the Subaru recommendation. A STI without the boy racer look will be a Subaru Legacy GT Spec.B. Slightly detuned version of the STI motor, but with a 6 speed manual and the controllable diff.
    Pretty cool. Too bad they stopped making 'em back in 2009. And made very few of 'em.
    .
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by beeristasty View Post
    Porsche Boxster Spyder. But you'd have to wait towards the end of this year/start of next... And start buttering up your dealership today.
    Totally badass.

    But, as you note, I don't think I can wait. And with options, it'll probably run north of $100K, I'll bet.

    Still, I think the regular plain jane Boxster (or maybe the Boxster S) is my current frontrunner. The more I look into it, the more I seem to like it.

    But if I didn't have my Subie as a bad-weather/winter/haul-stuff car, the calc would be different. Roadsters as your only ride = impractical.

    Even here in California (where I almost froze my ass off in a rented Sebring convertible on a freak rainy day in July ).
    .
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    'Cuz it costs around $140,000?
    .
    If you could get over the shame and embarrassment of driving a "pre-owned" automobile and let someone else take the kick-in-the-teeth depreciation you don't have to spend $140K you can get one year old for almost HALF of new.

    just sayin'

    2017 BMW Alpina B7 XDrive $77K

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...3364/overview/


  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Can anyone knowledgeable break down the differences between the BMW M2/3/4/5? I think I got too many Ms on my list.

    I hear the M2's actually the one to have, 'cuz lighter weight. And handling. Izzat so?

    Also hear that some of the BMW M-Series are not quite the cars they used to be, i.e. not as fun or as 'put together' handling-wise as previous gens.

    .
    I drove an M3 Competition, an M4 Competition, and an M2 back to back at the Circuit of the Americas last year. My thoughts:

    The M3 and M4 are extremely competent cars- but almost too competent. They are very easy to drive fast, but don't impart the same sensation of speed as other sporty cars. They drive identically as far as I can tell, so the only consideration would be space and aesthetics. The interior is a significant step up from the M2s which in my opinion border on chincy. The motor in the M3/4 feels much more "motorsport" oriented to me- it seemed much happier at the top of the rev range.

    I went into the event thinking the M2 was the one to have, but I left only interested in the M3.

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    I drove an M3 Competition, an M4 Competition, and an M2 back to back at the Circuit of the Americas last year. My thoughts:

    The M3 and M4 are extremely competent cars- but almost too competent. They are very easy to drive fast, but don't impart the same sensation of speed as other sporty cars. They drive identically as far as I can tell, so the only consideration would be space and aesthetics. The interior is a significant step up from the M2s which in my opinion border on chincy. The motor in the M3/4 feels much more "motorsport" oriented to me- it seemed much happier at the top of the rev range.

    I went into the event thinking the M2 was the one to have, but I left only interested in the M3.
    Any more-detailed thoughts on how the M2 was to drive?

    I'm not so much a 'high-revs/zing' guy, and IIRC the M2 has max torque as low as 1400 rpm... which is a good thing, in my book.

    I'm not sure, but I think the M3/4 don't do that, the real power 'comes on late'(?).

    Also, how tossable was the M2 vs the M3/4?

    .
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Any more-detailed thoughts on how the M2 was to drive?

    I'm not so much a 'high-revs/zing' guy, and IIRC the M2 has max torque as low as 1400 rpm... which is a good thing, in my book.

    I'm not sure, but I think the M3/4 don't do that, the real power 'comes on late'(?).

    Also, how tossable was the M2 vs the M3/4?

    .
    It's hard to directly compare "tossability", but I didn't feel like the M2 was all that much lighter on its feet than the M3. The M2 is less than 100lbs lighter than the M3, so that sort of makes sense- the difference simply isn't material. It seemed much more cramped inside, however.

    It wasn't so much that the M3 only made power at the top of the rev range, but that the motor seemed happy there. The M2 made power low, but didn't seem as happy to rev- it didn't make you want to drive it as hard.

    My take is that the only reason to buy an M2 is that you don't wan't to pay for the M3. It would be different if the M2 was really the lightweight car that was envisioned. If it were sub 3,000lbs, I would probably sing a different tune.

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    lightweight car that was envisioned.
    Ahem...

    WRX STI = 3,391 lbs AWD

    BMW M2 = 3,450 lbs RWD

    BMW M3 = 3,540 lbs RWD

    BMW M4 = 3,530 - 4,055 lbs RWD

    I have no idea why all the hate for the WRX STI on here it checks all the boxes fun to drive, crazy fast, low maintenance, $17K to $33K cheaper than the BMW M2/M3/M4 with excellent resale value.

    Yeah the 2012 M3 I test drove was a hoot but nevertheless driving the 2013 WRX STI a few days later sealed the deal as it just felt quicker driving overall and thousands of dollars cheaper than the M3.

    Anyway do what makes you happy I just don't get the total rejection of the WRX STI if you have never driven one.

  11. #261
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    Because of the good Marketing of brands like BMW, their cars are more attractive than cars from Subaru. BMW appears to be more prestigious than Subaru.
    In some countries the WRX Sti looks too much like a "tuned car for the poor" compared to a BMW M3/M4 etc.. which looks more "modern" and "educated"...

    The few drivers have actually driven a WRX Sti.

    I drove a WRX Sti and also a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X, both on the Nordschleife in Germany, a few years ago and I was impressed from both cars. A very active driving experience.

  12. #262
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    One car that hasn't been mentioned and is a great bang for the buck sports car is the Nissan 370z. 3200 lbs. 330-350 hp. Easily modified and a lot of available performance parts. Here's my 2017.
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd3eYRxlwyu/
    ...and dyno sheet.
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd1lLfBFOQJ/
    ...and dyno run.
    https://youtu.be/t2t6p_fX7a4
    Last edited by redondoaveb; 01-16-2018 at 10:46 AM.
    If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

  13. #263
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    Best Sports Car or Luxury Car under $80K?

    Subaru luxury car?? A real sports car?

    Not


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  14. #264
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    deleted

  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_mm View Post
    deleted
    Geez, what’d I miss? Flamewar?

    .
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Geez, what’d I miss? Flamewar?

    .
    I intended to write that the WRX Sti is a great car with some modification. Exactly like Mitsubishi Lancer Evo. But these two brands don't have any brand recognition in many countries compared to BMW etc....

    So no point to start a debate Subaru WRX Sti (the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X is not produced any more).....

    Nevertheless if you have the chance to drive of these two cars do it and draw your own conclusions. I personally like these two cars (with some modifications of course....).

  17. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Geez, what’d I miss? Flamewar?

    .
    No but I can start one I've seen one of these bad boys parked outside the Hennessey shop in Sealy Texas I about drove off the road looking at it.

    Velociraptor 6X6 | Hennessey Performance

    Best Sports Car or Luxury Car under K?-6x6-hennessey-velociraptor-02.jpg

    America, F*ck Yeah'

    lotta testosterone driving one of these Velociraptors don't think it would mesh too well with your northern California lifestyle tho'.

  18. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_mm View Post
    I intended to write that the WRX Sti is a great car with some modification. Exactly like Mitsubishi Lancer Evo. But these two brands don't have any brand recognition in many countries compared to BMW etc....

    So no point to start a debate Subaru WRX Sti (the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X is not produced any more).....

    Nevertheless if you have the chance to drive of these two cars do it and draw your own conclusions. I personally like these two cars (with some modifications of course....).

    No offense, but I think he already mentioned the boy racer look wasn't to his liking, plus the styling is like from the 80's yet? Subaru may make some decent affordable vehicles, but they make nothing an aspiring guy who's wanting to have show with his go will want. I am not sure of the pedigree of the OP, but I don't know if he can even handle something with decent power and handling on the canyon roads on the weekends, much less a car that can come unglued just punching it from a stoplight. Some of the cars mentioned here can get you into trouble very quickly, and probably best require some training to learn how to stay out of trouble.

    I say this as a guy who used to ride sportbikes which are probably another level above some of the fastest cars already mentioned. If you think a Porsche Turbo is fast, try a modern liter bike...
    "I felt bad because I couldn't wheelie; until I met a man with no bicycle"

  19. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by nOOky View Post
    No offense, but I think he already mentioned the boy racer look wasn't to his liking, plus the styling is like from the 80's yet? Subaru may make some decent affordable vehicles, but they make nothing an aspiring guy who's wanting to have show with his go will want. I am not sure of the pedigree of the OP, but I don't know if he can even handle something with decent power and handling on the canyon roads on the weekends, much less a car that can come unglued just punching it from a stoplight. Some of the cars mentioned here can get you into trouble very quickly, and probably best require some training to learn how to stay out of trouble.




    I say this as a guy who used to ride sportbikes which are probably another level above some of the fastest cars already mentioned. If you think a Porsche Turbo is fast, try a modern liter bike...
    Ho ho ho...that’s the reason why I deleted my post originally as the debate about Subaru is going nowhere usually. I just replied to the OP as he asked me why I deleted my post...

    I agree completely with you about sport motorcycle vs. sport car and about being able to handle the power of some sport cars. However most of the current sport cars deliver a very smooth power and torque curve if you compared it with some of the past sport cars of the 80s until the late 90s. Just think about the first 911 turbo etc....

    .....I say this as a guy who used to race with a FIA international car racing license (mostly on 911/964 Carrera RSR and 355 Challenge) and a FIA international motocycle racing license (on Ducati 996R/998R and GSX-R1000)...

  20. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_mm View Post
    Ho ho ho...that’s the reason why I deleted my post originally as the debate about Subaru is going nowhere usually. I just replied to the OP as he asked me why I deleted my post...

    I agree completely with you about sport motorcycle vs. sport car and about being able to handle the power of some sport cars. However most of the current sport cars deliver a very smooth power and torque curve if you compared it with some of the past sport cars of the 80s until the late 90s. Just think about the first 911 turbo etc....

    .....I say this as a guy who used to race with a FIA international car racing license (mostly on 911/964 Carrera RSR and 355 Challenge) and a FIA international motocycle racing license (on Ducati 996R/998R and GSX-R1000)...
    Did you see my above post on what my 370z just did on the dyno? Supercharged on only 11 lbs of boost.
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd1lLfBFOQJ/
    If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

  21. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRM4865 View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	6x6-hennessey-velociraptor-02.jpg 
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ID:	321618

    America, F*ck Yeah'
    Looks-wise, I'd hit that... with a truck.

    But, it is already a truck. So maybe I'd have to hit it with a bus.

    .
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  22. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRM4865 View Post
    Anyway do what makes you happy I just don't get the total rejection of the WRX STI if you have never driven one.
    You may have missed me mentioning it previously, as this has become a looooong thread, but... one of my brothers has an STI. I am well-acquainted with them, and while I like 'em, I don't quite love 'em.

    As with what you prefer in women, cars are a personal-taste matter to a large extent. Numbers, spec sheets, and even logic don't play into it as much as some would like to think.

    It's more about emotion, to a large extent.
    .
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
    Subaru luxury car?? A real sports car?

    Not
    You bomb-thrower, you.
    .
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  24. #274
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    I do fully agree with you and the emotional part!

    There are the hard facts and the emotion. And emotion is sometimes very personal!

    You nailed it!

  25. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    It's hard to directly compare "tossability", but I didn't feel like the M2 was all that much lighter on its feet than the M3. The M2 is less than 100lbs lighter than the M3, so that sort of makes sense- the difference simply isn't material. It seemed much more cramped inside, however.

    It wasn't so much that the M3 only made power at the top of the rev range, but that the motor seemed happy there. The M2 made power low, but didn't seem as happy to rev- it didn't make you want to drive it as hard.

    My take is that the only reason to buy an M2 is that you don't wan't to pay for the M3. It would be different if the M2 was really the lightweight car that was envisioned. If it were sub 3,000lbs, I would probably sing a different tune.
    I'm just tryin' to figure out why DeMuro is so in love with the M2, that's all.

    And, according to him, the '1 Series M' is even better. As in orgasmic. Too bad they don't make 'em anymore. And if BMW brings it back, it won't be the same sort of car, likely.
    .
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


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