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  1. #1
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    First medical marijuana ETF starts trading today

    Designed to track the North American MM index (link below). With the exception of the English pharma company GWPH, the largest companies in the sector are Canadian. These would all be legally licenced growers or processors.

    Symbol HMMJ on the TSE.

    If Canada goes for complete legalization next year, this would be like getting into liquor and beer stocks towards the end of prohibition.

    The marijuana industry is getting its first exchange traded fund (ETF) this week with Horizons ETFs Management (Canada) Inc. expecting to launch the Horizons Medical Marijuana Life Sciences ETF. The fund, which will trade under the ticker symbol “HMMJ”, is slated to debut on the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSX) on Apr 5, 2017.
    one of many articles http://finance.yahoo.com/news/play-m...143102256.html

    link to ETF info Horizons ETFs - HMMJ

    link to index https://marijuanaindex.com/stock-quo...rijuana-index/
    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?

    One.

    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  2. #2
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    too bad we can't buy in down here.

    Well, we probably can, with some work.

    I'd buy in.
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    too bad we can't buy in down here.

    Well, we probably can, with some work.

    I'd buy in.
    The stock you mean?

    I would definitely consider this. One of those "green" stocks, literally and figuratively!

  4. #4
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    I don't know how it works for you guys, but here I can buy US stocks just as easily as Canadian through my online brokerage.
    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?

    One.

    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  5. #5
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    Google Finance and my own broker are slow to add HMMJ but Yahoo Finance is showing it as HMMJ.TO with a 15 min delay https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/HMMJ.TO?p=HMMJ.TO

    Well over 1M trades in the first 15 mins
    Last edited by bikerjulio; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:06 AM.
    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?

    One.

    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio View Post
    Designed to track the North American MM index (link below). With the exception of the English pharma company GWPH, the largest companies in the sector are Canadian. These would all be legally licenced growers or processors.

    Symbol HMMJ on the TSE.

    If Canada goes for complete legalization next year, this would be like getting into liquor and beer stocks towards the end of prohibition.

    one of many articles Play the Marijuana Rush as First Marijuana-Focused ETF Launches

    link to ETF info Horizons ETFs - HMMJ

    link to index https://marijuanaindex.com/stock-quo...rijuana-index/
    Some better ticker symbols would've been

    BONG
    HIGH
    STND
    BAKD
    TOKE
    BLAZ
    WEED


    And it would've been hilarious to see the serious financial analysts on CNBC or such trying to discuss those.
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  7. #7
    Seat's not level
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    MM was a scam in Colorado. Lies, lies, lies...

    It's pretty much been a disaster.
    Bad decisions make great stories - JP

    Attendance at Hillary's inauguration = 0

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chain View Post
    MM was a scam in Colorado. Lies, lies, lies...

    It's pretty much been a disaster.
    Feel free to provide some details.

    In terms of investment, the question is pretty much growth of the market at this point. One estimate of the medical market in Canada?

    Year--- sales in millions of dollars Canadian.
    2015 49
    2016 126
    2017 316
    2018 567
    2019 911
    2020 1,146

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...t-size-canada/

    Looks to me like there is good potential there in terms of a medium term investment. Add recreational into the mix, and even more so.

    I have not looked into the ETF details, nor do I intend to do so. But that kind of projected growth means looking deeper is worth the time, for those inclined, imo.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  9. #9
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    Anything posted will be disputed... so feel free go google for anything to support your opinion.

    Boulder's and Denver's downtown trails have been taken over by homeless drug addicts. Places that we used to go for family rides and outings are no longer safe or worth going to.

    Tax money is the big draw for the politicians and pot heads. First they create a problem, then try to tax their way out of it... Gov. Hickenlooper aims Colorado marijuana tax revenue toward affordable housing, homeless | Colorado Springs Gazette, News
    Bad decisions make great stories - JP

    Attendance at Hillary's inauguration = 0

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by systemshock View Post
    some better ticker symbols would've been

    bong
    high
    stnd
    bakd
    toke
    blaz
    weed


    and it would've been hilarious to see the serious financial analysts on cnbc or such trying to discuss those.
    liar
    dumf
    Bad decisions make great stories - JP

    Attendance at Hillary's inauguration = 0

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Some better ticker symbols would've been

    BONG
    HIGH
    STND
    BAKD
    TOKE
    BLAZ
    WEED


    And it would've been hilarious to see the serious financial analysts on CNBC or such trying to discuss those.
    ACTUALLY WEED is already taken https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/WEED.TO/?p=WEED.TO

    The largest in Canada
    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?

    One.

    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  12. #12
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    MM is on balance a good thing for society. Hope I never need it.

    however as an investment I think folks need to understand the hype over MJ in the marketplace: look at the economics of it. MJ is probably the least expensive drug to make - period. It's just a weed which grows vigorously with minimal input, on just about any kind of soil. They used to grow it as hemp en masse in quantities like hay or straw is grown. So the potential for unlimited supply is immense - on supply/demand curve that means the real price of legalized and deregulated pot could make it's market value for the farmer at close to nil. (note I said legalized and deregulated, more later on that)

    The biggest upside to this is a weed grown for next to nil means that the potential to eliminate all the crime associated with MJ, is very plausible too. Removing that portion of the war on drugs would be a good thing for society. Though criminals will be criminals and switch to other markets for their ill gotten gains, there is only so much room in any chosen market.

    As for weed as an investment - the economics suggest it's a stupid investment. There is no patent on weed nor any weed product I know of (cannibidiol extract? I dunno is patented - I doubt it). So anyone with permission to grow it can do so without the typical royalties paid to patent holders as with other medical drugs.

    That gets us to regulation, which is to say, politics. In Canada I cannot believe the rush of fools dumping their savings into small start up MJ stores here. Meanwhile the govt is mulling how best to distribute the drugs, with strong signals that it could only be through pharmacies and government liquor stores, which I favour. So such regulation will put all those hippie stores out of business overnight and savings gone. The hippies do not know how to play politics and are doing a good job of making fools of themselves thinking that legalization means deregulation of everything from production to distribution - whoa nelly, watch out.

    As for regulation of farming of marijuana: politics is strong with this one too. Governments are capricious about such things. They could go in many directions. They could send out tenders, or quotas, or just hand out permits to grow to compliant producers en masse. We just don't know. I'd rather they hand out permits en masse to push down the market price the farmers get simply to suppress the value of MJ and kill the black market instantly. We do not see a black market for barley, grapes, hops, corn, etc used to produce liquors and beers and that is a good thing. But that means that there is no way to predict if any part of the marijuana production and distribution would be lucrative for private companies ... thus a silly investment imho.

    As for regulation of distribution, it is also uncertain what government will do. They want to ensure it will be dose-controlled so customers are informed just as they are when buying liquor showing the alcohol % on the bottles. This is of course an obviously essential component of safety for any drug which the hippie stores completely ignore. And the government will impose significant taxes on the products in retail of course. But they also need to ensure the demand is met with adequate supply and price. If they play it correct as they do with alcohol and cigarettes, the price and accessibility will kill the black market and still net sufficient sums for government to fund solutions to problems that may arise from MJ use.

    Investing in weed is a high risk gamble. One of those big unknowns which could see your ETF go to zero. And most of that fate determined by politics of regulation. I'd say no to such an investment.
    Last edited by BCSaltchucker; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:15 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chain View Post
    Anything posted will be disputed... so feel free go google for anything to support your opinion.

    Boulder's and Denver's downtown trails have been taken over by homeless drug addicts. Places that we used to go for family rides and outings are no longer safe or worth going to.
    I am always open to reasoned arguments based on facts. Your opinion is just that, an opinion.

    When you said scam, I thought you were talking about economic claims and reality. Things that can be assessed through numerical analysis and a review of claims made in the past.

    I would say, from the research I am familiar with, opioids and alcohol and meth are far more associated with the homeless drug addict population than pot is. As a causal factor. I have a few lectures worth of material that draws on the research literature to that point.

    But this thread is about investments, not social problems caused by or related to drug use. Which is far more appropriate in PO, of course.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chain View Post
    Anything posted will be disputed... so feel free go google for anything to support your opinion.

    Boulder's and Denver's downtown trails have been taken over by homeless drug addicts. Places that we used to go for family rides and outings are no longer safe or worth going to.
    what does this have to do with marijuana? answer: nothing at all. So bring on the dispute.

    I live in a city with significant homeless issue. They are either drunks or heroin users. And last I heard, neither alcohol nor heroin is marijuana. They are in fact different things. The heroin lifetsyle exists in a completely different space than those who use MJ recreationally or for medication.

    The single greatest factor increasing the rate of opioid abuse over the past decade is ... the rise of opioid prescriptions by MDs leading to addiction. That has as much to do with marijuana as the price of tea in China. Only connection there is that perhaps if the MDs had Rxed MJ instead of Oxycontin, we'd have a whole heckuva lot less opioid addicts and possibly a lot less homeless too

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chain View Post
    liar
    dumf
    wat??
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  16. #16
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    nothing has changed in seattle.

    still great and safe riding all over.

    smoke 'em if you got 'em!
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chain View Post
    Anything posted will be disputed... so feel free go google for anything to support your opinion.

    Boulder's and Denver's downtown trails have been taken over by homeless drug addicts. Places that we used to go for family rides and outings are no longer safe or worth going to.

    Tax money is the big draw for the politicians and pot heads. First they create a problem, then try to tax their way out of it... Gov. Hickenlooper aims Colorado marijuana tax revenue toward affordable housing, homeless | Colorado Springs Gazette, News
    Colorado Springs trails and creeksides have been full of homeless alcoholics and drug addicts for decades, what we're seeing that is new are transient young people that come for dope in the warmer months. Not great I admit, but neither are the alcoholics and no one uses them to point out what a failure legal booze is. The upside of legal MJ is greater than the downside IME.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    nothing has changed in seattle.
    except all the Starbucks are giving way to marijuana stores. Seems like they are every where now.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeltF75rider View Post
    except all the Starbucks are giving way to marijuana stores. Seems like they are every where now.
    They should just merge the two. Starbucks has snacks, after all.
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  20. #20
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    True and a lot of them had nice couches to sit in and merge with game stop. I see a great business model coming together.

  21. #21
    hfc
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    I would think that if MJ is legalized, it would undercut MM business. Understand however there are a lot of complexities to that business. In the US, not the least is Federal controlled substance laws butting heads with state marijuana laws, whether for medical or recreational use.

    I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable throwing my money into that ring of fire.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by hfc View Post
    I would think that if MJ is legalized, it would undercut MM business. Understand however there are a lot of complexities to that business. In the US, not the least is Federal controlled substance laws butting heads with state marijuana laws, whether for medical or recreational use.

    I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable throwing my money into that ring of fire.
    MM companies will be the first into recreational markets.

    The ETF is Canadian, and I would not be ready to leap into a US based ETF for the reasons you mention.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    MM companies will be the first into recreational markets.

    The ETF is Canadian, and I would not be ready to leap into a US based ETF for the reasons you mention.
    If you look at the NAMM index I posted initially, you will see that out of a total market cap of just over $10B, 30% of that is UK and about another 50% is Canadian. So 80% is non-US and not subject to the Fed vs State disagreements.

    In Canada the legal MM market is Federally licensed and controlled. Same in UK.

    I'd agree that it's a risky investment. Many of the component companies are start-ups making little or no profit. I see the ETF as a step towards making the business more palatable to investors, both large and small. The first day of trading yesterday was solid, not spectacular, and I will follow with interest as a benchmark for my own portfolio.
    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?

    One.

    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    They should just merge the two. Starbucks has snacks, after all.
    We've got these all over town, Gas & Grass.

    https://nativerootsdispensary.com/lo...d-grass-uintah

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by harryman View Post
    We've got these all over town, Gas & Grass.

    https://nativerootsdispensary.com/lo...d-grass-uintah
    That... is not so good.

    It's a bit like overtly combining a liquor store with a gas station. Might as well just call it 'Drink and Drive'.

    Though of course, some gas stations in some states already do this I'm sure.
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


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